GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
What wrong teachings you still have not said what is wrong or provided scripture that supports what you are saying :rolleyes:
Uhm... so AGAIN:

​"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Law] beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."
(Acts 15:28-29)

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival [every year], a New Moon celebration [every month] or a Sabbath day [every week].
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
(Col 2:16-17)

"You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you."
(Gal 4:10-11)

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."
(Rom 14:5)

---

[] represents my note
 
Jun 5, 2017
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It is one among many Scriptures. And quite rightly so. The Sabbath was given to Israel as a special sign that they were God's people. The New Testament knows nothing of such a requirement on Christians. which means your opinion LOL It is quite clear, -- of (all) Sabbaths. This also refers to the Sabbath days each week (and the new moons each month) Yes the weekly occurrence of the Sabbath and the monthly occurrence of the new moon.
Hi valiant now please read your post and tell me how you have answered anything in the OP? You quote yourself over the Word of God. Like I said earlier we should believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Where does it say in God's Word that the 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday in place of the 4th commandment?

BELIEVE or not it is up to you. I do not judge you. All are free to BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE. However be WARNED that only BELIEVERS will enter into God's Kingdom. (Hebrews 10:26-27; 6:4-8; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:4) as it is also written............

John 12
47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48, He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
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Uhm... so AGAIN:

​"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Law] beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."
(Acts 15:28-29)

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival [every year], a New Moon celebration [every month] or a Sabbath day [every week].
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
(Col 2:16-17)

"You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you."
(Gal 4:10-11)

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind."
(Rom 14:5)

---[] represents my note
Yes indeed and repeating yourself over and over when your interpretation has been shown to disagree with God does not magically all of a sudden make it come true............

Now please I have addressed this post of yours already but you have not been able to reply to the scriptures I have sent you already in post # 770 and Post 778.

Here let me address it again as it is only a cut and paste maybe it will make it easy for you to address............

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

You are wrong however as there is NO scripture in God's Word that says that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED..
Originally Posted by trofimus
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Law] beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."
(Acts 15:28-29)
Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15
1, And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2, When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3, And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4, And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

There is no mention in Acts 15 about God's 4th commandment as well as the other nine. Circumcision is was part of the Mosaic law that is fulfilled in Christ (Circumcision of the heart) and the promise of the New Covenant of God's Laws written on the heart (Romans 2:29; Hebrews 8:10-12)

So nope that is not saying the God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.........

Originally Posted by trofimus
"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind." (Rom 14:5)

Romans 14 is an interesting chapter that discusses the annual Jewish festivals and holy days, as well as fasting and not eating food from the shambles (food sacrificed to idols) and judging others in relation to the above. There is no mention of God's 4th commandment in the entire Chapter of Romans 14.....

So nope that is not saying the God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED
.........

Originally Posted by trofimus
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you because of Sabbaths. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." (Col 2:16-17)
Well this only tells me you have not read the OP as you have not answered the OP on the scripture above with is talking about the annual Jewish festivals and holy convocations, which included the new mood and annual Sabbaths that were NOT God's 4th commandment but part of the Mosaic laws written in the book and could fall on ANY Day of the week unlike God's 4th commandment which is EVERY 7th Day (Leviticus 23 see also Wiki). If you read the OP and the scriptures there you would know this seems you have not.

Post # 1
Post # 2
Post # 694

You should at least have a read of the OP on Col 2:14-17 as there is more then 200+ scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures.

So nope that is not saying the God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED.........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Yes indeed and repeating yourself over and over when your interpretation has been shown to disagree with God does not magically all of a sudden make it come true............

Now please I have addressed this post of yours already but you have not been able to reply...

Hello friend, you are missing the CONTEXT of Acts 15 which is talking about the Jewish believers that thought that the new Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15
1, And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2, When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3, And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4, And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
I think that you could see big red font in my post.

So, again: notice the red big font. The context was not only circumcision, but also keeping of the Law. So you are wrong.

If you wish more details, you can read the epistle of Barnabas (who was present there). If you do not read extra-biblical sources, you must be satisfied with what is in Acts.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Originally Posted by valiant
It is one among many Scriptures. And quite rightly so. The Sabbath was given to Israel as a special sign that they were God's people. The New Testament knows nothing of such a requirement on Christians. which means your opinion LOL It is quite clear, -- of (all) Sabbaths. This also refers to the Sabbath days each week (and the new moons each month) Yes the weekly occurrence of the Sabbath and the monthly occurrence of the new moon.
Hi valiant now please read your post and tell me how you have answered anything in the OP?
I have pointed out that in the Scriptures 'new moons and Sabbaths' refers to the monthly and weekly cycles of the two. Where New Moons and Sabbaths are mentioned together they always do. It is you who circumvent Scripture who try to argue otherwise,

You quote yourself over the Word of God.
LOL I have quoted the word of God in its plain meaning. It is you who twist it and fail to rightly divide it.,

Like I said earlier we should believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.
So bang goes your position

Where does it say in God's Word that the 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday in place of the 4th commandment?
Who has said this? Not me. The 4th commandment was one of ten given to ISRAEL within the old covenant. We observe the first day of the week because Paul and the early church did so (eg Acts 20.7),


BELIEVE or not it is up to you. I do not judge you
.

I will stick to Scripture.


All are free to BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE.
Take heed therefore.

However be WARNED that only BELIEVERS will enter into God's Kingdom. (Hebrews 10:26-27; 6:4-8; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:4).
Believers in CHRIST. Soooo?


as it is also written............

John 12
47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48, He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Tell me just one verse where Jesus enjoined the keeping of the Sabbath on Gentile Christians????

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)
Read from verse 1. The ten words were written to those who had been delivered from Egypt.

If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11)
where does James mention the ten commandments?


Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God.
Acts 20.7?


Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
We agree with Jesus, but not with you.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
we believe the word of God, what about you?
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
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I think that you could see big red font in my post.
So, again: notice the red big font. The context was not only circumcision, but also keeping of the Law. So you are wrong.
If you wish more details, you can read the epistle of Barnabas (who was present there). If you do not read extra-biblical sources, you must be satisfied with what is in Acts.
Nope I addressed it already maybe you did not see it?

There you go now if you read the OP you would know that Acts 15 is talking about circumcision from the Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses. That comment only shows you really did not read the OP.

Here let's share God's Word again for all to see what the Old Covenant is made up of........................

THE OLD COVENANT

Includes both
(1) GOD'S LAW (10 commandment s written on stone by God) and (2) the Mosaic laws for remission of sin (written by Moses in a book ).

The Old Covenant included God's Law (10 commandments)................................

Exodus 34 [27], And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. [28], And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments"


The Old Covenant also included the Mosaic laws written by Moses in a book for the remission of sins.............

EXODUS 24 [5] And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.[6] And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. [7] AND HE TOOK THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT AND READ IN THE AUDIENCE OF THE PEOPLE: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. [8] And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, BEHOLD THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

NUMBERS 25 [11] Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. [12] Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him MY COVENANT of peace: [13] And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even THE COVENANT OF AN EVERLASTING PRIESTHOOD; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS LAW:

DEUTERONOMY 31 [24] And it came to pass, when MOSES HAD MADE AN END OF WRITING THE WORDS OF THIS BOOK, UNTIL THEY WERE FINISHED, [25] That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [26], TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee

The Ark of the Covenant was the home of the covenant to God and His people and included both (1) God’s Law (10 commandments) written on stone and (2) The laws of Moses written in book. Together these made up the Old Covenant ………..

DEUTERONOMY 10 [8] At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day.

The God’s Law (10 commandments) on two tables of stone were placed inside because they were part of the Old Covenant. The Mosaic law written in a book was also placed in the side of the Ark because it was part of the Old Covenant……………...................

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD your God that it may be there for a witness against thee

What was the purpose of God's Law (10 commandments) written on stone by God and the Mosaic laws written by Moses in a book...............................

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose;
reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose;
was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the Savior of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

Linking the old testament Mosaic Shadow laws for remission of sin to the New Covenant....

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about. He takes away the 1st covenant {the meat and drink offerings} and established the 2nd covenant {the body of Christ}

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

HEBREWS 8 [2] A MINISTER OF THE SANCTUARY, AND OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE, WHICH THE LORD PITCHED AND NOT MAN. [3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] WHO SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF THE HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. [6] But now hath HE HAS OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED ON BETTER PROMISES . [7] For if that FIRST COVENANT HAD BEEN FAULTLESS, THEN NO PLACE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOUGHT FOR A SECOND. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITHE THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Yep lots of scripture and many more not in this post that identify what the shadow law was that is fulfilled in Christ. It has never been God's Law which the scriptures say are forever and the vert standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come.............

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

God bless
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
I have pointed out that in the Scriptures 'new moons and Sabbaths' refers to the monthly and weekly cycles of the two. Where New Moons and Sabbaths are mentioned together they always do. It is you who circumvent Scripture who try to argue otherwise,

LOL I have quoted the word of God in its plain meaning. It is you who twist it and fail to rightly divide it.,

So bang goes your position

Who has said this? Not me. The 4th commandment was one of ten given to ISRAEL within the old covenant. We observe the first day of the week because Paul and the early church did so (eg Acts 20.7),

I will stick to Scripture. Take heed therefore.

Believers in CHRIST. Soooo?
Tell me just one verse where Jesus enjoined the keeping of the Sabbath on Gentile Christians????

Read from verse 1. The ten words were written to those who had been delivered from Egypt.
where does James mention the ten commandments?

Acts 20.7?
We agree with Jesus, but not with you.
we believe the word of God, what about you?
Hi valiant now how does any of the above address the OP or any of the scriptures I have already posted? If I provide you with more scripture will you have a look at them and respond to them?

We should not quote ourselves over God's Word because only God is true (Romans 3:4).
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Nope I addressed it already maybe you did not see it?

There you go now if you read the OP you would know that Acts 15 is talking about circumcision from the Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses. That comment only shows you really did not read the OP.

Here let's share God's Word again for all to see what the Old Covenant is made up of........................

THE OLD COVENANT

Includes both
(1) GOD'S LAW (10 commandment s written on stone by God) and (2) the Mosaic laws for remission of sin (written by Moses in a book ).

The Old Covenant included God's Law (10 commandments)................................

Exodus 34 [27], And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. [28], And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments"


The Old Covenant also included the Mosaic laws written by Moses in a book for the remission of sins.............

EXODUS 24 [5] And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.[6] And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. [7] AND HE TOOK THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT AND READ IN THE AUDIENCE OF THE PEOPLE: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. [8] And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, BEHOLD THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

NUMBERS 25 [11] Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. [12] Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him MY COVENANT of peace: [13] And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even THE COVENANT OF AN EVERLASTING PRIESTHOOD; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

DEUTERONOMY 29 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS LAW:

DEUTERONOMY 31 [24] And it came to pass, when MOSES HAD MADE AN END OF WRITING THE WORDS OF THIS BOOK, UNTIL THEY WERE FINISHED, [25] That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [26], TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee

The Ark of the Covenant was the home of the covenant to God and His people and included both (1) God’s Law (10 commandments) written on stone and (2) The laws of Moses written in book. Together these made up the Old Covenant ………..

DEUTERONOMY 10 [8] At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day.

The God’s Law (10 commandments) on two tables of stone were placed inside because they were part of the Old Covenant. The Mosaic law written in a book was also placed in the side of the Ark because it was part of the Old Covenant……………...................

DEUTERONOMY 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD your God that it may be there for a witness against thee

What was the purpose of God's Law (10 commandments) written on stone by God and the Mosaic laws written by Moses in a book...............................

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose;
reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose;
was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the Savior of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

Linking the old testament Mosaic Shadow laws for remission of sin to the New Covenant....

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about. He takes away the 1st covenant {the meat and drink offerings} and established the 2nd covenant {the body of Christ}

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

HEBREWS 8 [2] A MINISTER OF THE SANCTUARY, AND OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE, WHICH THE LORD PITCHED AND NOT MAN. [3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] WHO SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF THE HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. [6] But now hath HE HAS OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED ON BETTER PROMISES . [7] For if that FIRST COVENANT HAD BEEN FAULTLESS, THEN NO PLACE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOUGHT FOR A SECOND. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITHE THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Yep lots of scripture and many more not in this post that identify what the shadow law was that is fulfilled in Christ. It has never been God's Law which the scriptures say are forever and the vert standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come.............

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

God bless
You cannot change simple truth in the New Testament by the length of your post. These absurd lengths serve you as a defense against criticism, because nobody want to spend their day just responding to your randomly selected verses full of various formatting.

The book of Acts is clear - we are not required to keep the law. You cannot change it. Who do you listen to, God or men? (Your favourite proclamation).
 
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You cannot change simple truth in the New Testament by the length of your post. These absurd lengths serve you as a defense against criticism, because nobody want to spend their day just responding to your randomly selected verses full of various formatting.

The book of Acts is clear - we are not required to keep the law. You cannot change it. Who do you listen to, God or men? (Your favourite proclamation).
Now trofimus,

You do know that large post is 95% continuous scripture answering scripture linking the Old and New Testament. These are the two great witnesses in agreement and harmony together. It's God's Word and we should BELIEVE it. If we do not BELIEVE GOD'S WORD then we are an UNBELIEVER and UNBELIEVERS have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven (Hebrews 10:26-27) Please friend for your own sake be like the faithful Bereans and ask God and study His Word for yourself. What have you got to lose?

The post above even shows you what the Mosaic shadow laws written in the book of Moses, that include circumcision, is talking about and that they are NOT the same as God's Law which has a DIFFERENT purpose. It is a brave may that can turn their back on God's Word.

Now there you go we are back to where we started...........

Where does it say in God's Word that the 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday in place of the 4th commandment?

BELIEVE or not it is up to you. I do not judge you. All are free to BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE.

John 12
47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48, He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
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gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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where in the N.T. does it specifically say that gentiles had to keep the Sabbath? it doesn't. in the letter sent to the gentiles in Acts 15, no mention of Sabbath . don't you think that if the disciples meant for the gentiles to keep it, they would have specifically said so?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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where in the N.T. does it specifically say that gentiles had to keep the Sabbath? it doesn't. in the letter sent to the gentiles in Acts 15, no mention of Sabbath . don't you think that if the disciples meant for the gentiles to keep it, they would have specifically said so?

ACTS 15
interpreting the chapter your way ...........

Let's have a look at what you and your friends are saying? We will not consider this time that Acts 15 is talking about CIRCUMCISION (Acts 15:1-5) and that it is not talking about God's Law (10 commandments) which is what we have already proven above. Let's follow the interpretation of your logic through shall we? You say...............

in the letter sent to the gentiles in Acts 15, no mention of Sabbath . don't you think that if the disciples meant for the gentiles to keep it, they would have specifically said so?
Now according to your argument you say; Acts 15 does not mention the Sabbath therefor you read into this that because the 4th commandment is not mentioned then we no longer need to keep the 4th commandment right?

Ok let's follow this interpretation through.........................

Exodus 20:3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. This is not mentioned in Acts 15 so it must be ok to have other God's right?

Exodus 20:4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Acts 15 is talking about food offered to idols so if your interpretation of the scriptures is correct we are now free to make idols of things (money; sport; sex etc)

Exodus 20:7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. Well there you go again this is not mentioned i Acts 15 so now we are free to take God's name in vain (according to your interpretation; not mine)

Exodus 20:8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Here we go your original argument. The Sabbath is not written in Acts 15 therefore we do not have to keep it.

Exodus 20:12,
Honor thy father and thy mother. This is not mentioned either in fact the Jews tried to do away with this commandment in Matthew 15:3-9. This is where Jesus says that the Jews were breaking God's commandments in order to follow their own traditions and they were not following God by doing this....

Exodus 20:13,
Thou shalt not kill. Well that is definitely not mentioned either. Looks like we are now free to kill according to your interpretation?

Exodus 20:14, Thou shalt not commit adultery. It say that they are to abstain from fornication so stay away from that one

Exodus 20:15,
Thou shalt not steal. That's not mentioned another free pass(not serious just showing your reasoning)

Exodus 20:16
, Thou shalt not lie. Well that is definitely not mentioned either. Looks like we are now free to kill according to your interpretation?

Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet. Looks like everyone is free to do what they like now because most of those are not even mentioned in Acts 15.

Ok so can stop here because there is over 1300 scriptures that disagree with this interpretation that because a commandment is not mentioned in Acts 15 we do not need to obey it through faith that works by love.

If you read the Chapter of Acts 15 in context as well as the OP, you would see they are talking about CIRCUMCISION and the Jewish BELIEVERS were arguing that the new Gentile converts had to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be a part of ISRAEL. Now the OP clearly shows through both Old and New Testaments scriptures that the Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses for remission of sin were the Shadow laws all pointing to Jesus and done away with in the New Covenant.

Ok there is plenty there to consider I will not fill you with too much. Please pray about the scriptures and read them for your self and consider what it actually is you are believing. All of us need to turn away from the teachings of man to follow the Word of God for ourselves seeking Jesus that we may know Him who loves all because He is the living Word knocking at the door of the heart. Who will let him in? He calls out to all that have ears to hear................

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Will you open the door?

....................................................

There is no such thing as Gentiles only BELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS. It is the UNBELIEVERS that have no part in God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

Israel is only a name given by God that represents God's people and today anyone who is following Jesus is part of God's Israel according to God's Word. You become grafted in when you become a BELIEVER in God's Word.

What does God's Word say.....................................................................…

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel................................................

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures......................................................................

Galatians 3:28-29
,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all (James 2:8-12)

There is NO scripture in all the bible that says that God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday in place of God's 4th commandment.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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where in the N.T. does it specifically say that gentiles had to keep the Sabbath? it doesn't. in the letter sent to the gentiles in Acts 15, no mention of Sabbath . don't you think that if the disciples meant for the gentiles to keep it, they would have specifically said so?

It is written in the New Testament but the fact you need the specific: you must and it is not.. is deeming you as Believing the Lord or not.. most inadvertently.. but nevertheless the Instruction is there.

If we who come here as Believers in Christ and Keep and Teach even the Least Commandment we are unworthy servants and simply Hearing and Doing.. Which is Believing His Testament.

But if you are not moved by GOD saying those that Love Him Keep His Commandments and the Lord’s Testimony of what the Greatest is.. and how He is the Lord of Sabbath teaching us what is lawful.. then Faith that worketh by Love would it not be.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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It is written in the New Testament but the fact you need the specific: you must and it is not.. is deeming you as Believing the Lord or not.. most inadvertently.. but nevertheless the Instruction is there.

If we who come here as Believers in Christ and Keep and Teach even the Least Commandment we are unworthy servants and simply Hearing and Doing.. Which is Believing His Testament.

But if you are not moved by GOD saying those that Love Him Keep His Commandments and the Lord’s Testimony of what the Greatest is.. and how He is the Lord of Sabbath teaching us what is lawful.. then Faith that worketh by Love would it not be.
Hi LM1,

It is so nice to come across the BELIEVERS that SEEK Him who loves all through His Word.

Thanks for sharing........
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Instead of long posts about everything, give us one verse from the New Testament that says Christians are under the Old Testament Law or that we must keep weekly Sabbath.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Instead of long posts about everything, give us one verse from the New Testament that says Christians are under the Old Testament Law or that we must keep weekly Sabbath.
Matthew 22:37
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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"Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'"

Nothing about Christians being under the Old Testament law or required to keep weekly sabbaths.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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"Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'"

Nothing about Christians being under the Old Testament law or required to keep weekly sabbaths.
Are you absolutely sure?


Do you know Heavenly Father?



Did you Read the Bible from beginning Genesis to Revelation page upon page?


Now I ask to establish what you have learned not to attack you...
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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Are you absolutely sure?


Do you know Heavenly Father?



Did you Read the Bible from beginning Genesis to Revelation page upon page?


Now I ask to establish what you have learned not to attack you...
Can you please post one verse from the New Testament saying clearly and explicitly that Christians are required to keep weekly Sabbath or are under the Old testament law?

If you cant, just say "No, I cant" so that we will save our time.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,291
6,665
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ACTS 15
interpreting the chapter your way ...........

Let's have a look at what you and your friends are saying? We will not consider this time that Acts 15 is talking about CIRCUMCISION (Acts 15:1-5) and that it is not talking about God's Law (10 commandments) which is what we have already proven above. Let's follow the interpretation of your logic through shall we? You say...............



Now according to your argument you say; Acts 15 does not mention the Sabbath therefor you read into this that because the 4th commandment is not mentioned then we no longer need to keep the 4th commandment right?

Ok let's follow this interpretation through.........................

Exodus 20:3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. This is not mentioned in Acts 15 so it must be ok to have other God's right?

Exodus 20:4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Acts 15 is talking about food offered to idols so if your interpretation of the scriptures is correct we are now free to make idols of things (money; sport; sex etc)

Exodus 20:7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. Well there you go again this is not mentioned i Acts 15 so now we are free to take God's name in vain (according to your interpretation; not mine)

Exodus 20:8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Here we go your original argument. The Sabbath is not written in Acts 15 therefore we do not have to keep it.

Exodus 20:12,
Honor thy father and thy mother. This is not mentioned either in fact the Jews tried to do away with this commandment in Matthew 15:3-9. This is where Jesus says that the Jews were breaking God's commandments in order to follow their own traditions and they were not following God by doing this....

Exodus 20:13,
Thou shalt not kill. Well that is definitely not mentioned either. Looks like we are now free to kill according to your interpretation?

Exodus 20:14, Thou shalt not commit adultery. It say that they are to abstain from fornication so stay away from that one

Exodus 20:15,
Thou shalt not steal. That's not mentioned another free pass(not serious just showing your reasoning)

Exodus 20:16
, Thou shalt not lie. Well that is definitely not mentioned either. Looks like we are now free to kill according to your interpretation?

Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet. Looks like everyone is free to do what they like now because most of those are not even mentioned in Acts 15.

Ok so can stop here because there is over 1300 scriptures that disagree with this interpretation that because a commandment is not mentioned in Acts 15 we do not need to obey it through faith that works by love.

If you read the Chapter of Acts 15 in context as well as the OP, you would see they are talking about CIRCUMCISION and the Jewish BELIEVERS were arguing that the new Gentile converts had to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be a part of ISRAEL. Now the OP clearly shows through both Old and New Testaments scriptures that the Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses for remission of sin were the Shadow laws all pointing to Jesus and done away with in the New Covenant.

Ok there is plenty there to consider I will not fill you with too much. Please pray about the scriptures and read them for your self and consider what it actually is you are believing. All of us need to turn away from the teachings of man to follow the Word of God for ourselves seeking Jesus that we may know Him who loves all because He is the living Word knocking at the door of the heart. Who will let him in? He calls out to all that have ears to hear................

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Will you open the door?

....................................................

There is no such thing as Gentiles only BELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS. It is the UNBELIEVERS that have no part in God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

Israel is only a name given by God that represents God's people and today anyone who is following Jesus is part of God's Israel according to God's Word. You become grafted in when you become a BELIEVER in God's Word.

What does God's Word say.....................................................................…

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel................................................

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures......................................................................

Galatians 3:28-29
,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all (James 2:8-12)

There is NO scripture in all the bible that says that God's 4th commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday in place of God's 4th commandment.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
the instructions of Acts 15 to the gentiles- for it has seemed good to the Holy Sprit and us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements - that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood and what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. if you keep yourselves from theses , you will do well. v.28, 29.

so there. nothing about Sabbath. remembers, gentiles did not know the law of Moses, that was the purpose of the meeting, to decide if and how to address them.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,291
6,665
113
Are you absolutely sure?


Do you know Heavenly Father?



Did you Read the Bible from beginning Genesis to Revelation page upon page?


Now I ask to establish what you have learned not to attack you...
well, while we are asking questions about reading the whole Bible, how about responding to my question about 1st John chapter 3, where John explains the commands that we are to keep are believe in the name of the Son, and love one another. chapter 3.

nothing about Sabbath. care to address this, I asked you multiple times a couple of weeks ago, you said nothing.