GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
I can't look inside of you to see what Christ in you is leading you to do.

Is it God's work for you to mow the lawn on Saturday? Or to heal?

I don't know.
Christ ministered to others on the Sabbath. He did not worry about or tend to His own needs. He is our example. This is what it is to be Holy.
GOD rested from all HIS physical work. So we rest from all our physical work. But because HE continues Spiritually so do we. For HE is Love and as HE is so are we in this world through Christ.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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There is a difference between discussing God’s Word and twisting God’s Word.

We are saved by grace through faith, not works and we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10). So we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. I understand the difference and I don’t deny Ephesians 2:10. I also do not mix the old and new covenant and teach salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Trusting in God’s works/good works and not your works as the means of your salvation is a distinction without a difference because who is it that walks in/performs these works? I don’t have unbelief in God’s Word and I also do not pervert the Gospel.

God’s Word does not reveal the false accusations that you make about me and it’s ironic to hear you make that statement. You don’t need to worry about me being angry. I have a good conscience and I’m not easily fooled by false teachers.
"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

It is The Word which became Flesh that says; "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Not me.

Is was the Holy Spirit of the Christ that revealed to Paul in a vision how Salvation is brought to all men.

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (ALL) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Not my works, not Christmas, not Lent, or some man's holy water, not some long haired men's hair shampoo model, not Constantine or the Pope, not an alter call, but the Holy, Just, Good, and Spiritual "works of God" that He before ordained that we should walk in them.

It is then that Jesus will manifest Himself to us as He said, not me. It is then that He will send me a helper, a comforter He calls the Spirit of Truth. Why do I need this comforter?

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh,( man's religious tradition) but after the Spirit. ( God's Holy Works He Before ordained that we should walk in them.)


15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. (That God, the Word which became Flesh, created beforehand that we should "WALK IN THEM")
16 And (Then) I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: (Because they refuse to repent) but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (Because they repented and brought forth "works" worthy of repentance)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and (then) he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

And this same Word which became Flesh also said;

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths,(That God before ordained) where is the good way, and walk therein, and (THEN) ye shall find rest for your souls.

But they said, We will not walk therein.

But in your religion I can't listen to some of the Word's of Christ because you preach I am "Mixing Covenants". You are in error as far as the need for true repentance, you are also in error as to what the New Covenant is.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Hebrew translation - where there is no Torah, there is no peysha ( transgression, violation of the Law ).

( not that studyman cares about language , definitions, things like that ).
I care about what the Bible says and means, I just don't care about your man made religious traditions G9.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Colossians 3:22-24
Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

When my earthly boss needs me to do work for him on a weekend i have no conflict; i am at his service.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I care about what the Bible says and means, I just don't care about your man made religious traditions G9.
that is what the Hebrew Bible says studyman.

but, your are right. in my religion, words have definitions and meanings. in yours, you only use them if they fit your agenda.

so, see, in order to join your belief system, I would have to ignore the same word for law being used 190 or so times in the N.T., I would have to believe that God gave Abraham the Torah, when the word is Torat, not Torah, etc...

you do understand that the Scrolls that the Books and letters that the Bible were written in languages that were far, far from English right? you get that they had to be interperated right?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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There is no conditional word in this text.
You're adding it. That's just the facts.

In fact, the word in verse 2 is one single word "I will make" - no if, no then, not even a conjunction 'and' literally, in the original text.
It's a promise, and Romans 4 clearly explains it is not a promise made on the basis of any work.
Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (DO SOMETHING) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And (Then) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

I can see how you would want to preach that Abraham was free to reject God's Word and create his own path if he chose to and still be blessed. That is the foundation of "many" in mainstream Christianity. But I don't believe your assertion can be applied to this scripture.

It doesn't say or even imply the following as you suggest.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (DO SOMETHING) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 (But even if you refuse to obey Me) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Given all the scriptures I posted which led me to believe what I do about the scripture above, can you provide evidence to support your religious interpretation?

Regarding Romans 4, you, once again reject what Paul is speaking about.

Rom. 3:
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Since you refuse to accept what "Works of the Law" were given for the justification of sins, you can not possible understand what Paul is talking about.

Even if you refuse to believe there was a Levitical Priesthood which had separate Laws given to the Levites specifically created for the atonement and justification of sins, you unbelief doesn't make God's Word Void.

Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for justification of sins. He had God's Law, which God said He obeyed, and for this reason God blessed him. He didn't buy his justification with his best goat. He repented, turned to God, and brought forth works worthy of repentance as Paul taught. He wasn't justified by "Works" of a Priesthood the Jews were still preaching.

He was justified by faith, Not by "Works" of a Law that was added 430 years later that neither him, nor the gentiles had.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, (Jews only) or upon the uncircumcision (Non Jews) also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Gen. 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; Not in rebellion, but in obedience. It's in your Bible.

Gen. 26:
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (DO SOMETHING) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And (Then) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

I can see how you would want to preach that Abraham was free to reject God's Word and create his own path if he chose to and still be blessed. That is the foundation of "many" in mainstream Christianity. But I don't believe your assertion can be applied to this scripture.

It doesn't say or even imply the following as you suggest.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (DO SOMETHING) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 (But even if you refuse to obey Me) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Given all the scriptures I posted which led me to believe what I do about the scripture above, can you provide evidence to support your religious interpretation?

Regarding Romans 4, you, once again reject what Paul is speaking about.

Rom. 3:
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Since you refuse to accept what "Works of the Law" were given for the justification of sins, you can not possible understand what Paul is talking about.

Even if you refuse to believe there was a Levitical Priesthood which had separate Laws given to the Levites specifically created for the atonement and justification of sins, you unbelief doesn't make God's Word Void.

Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for justification of sins. He had God's Law, which God said He obeyed, and for this reason God blessed him. He didn't buy his justification with his best goat. He repented, turned to God, and brought forth works worthy of repentance as Paul taught. He wasn't justified by "Works" of a Priesthood the Jews were still preaching.

He was justified by faith, Not by "Works" of a Law that was added 430 years later that neither him, nor the gentiles had.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, (Jews only) or upon the uncircumcision (Non Jews) also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Gen. 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; Not in rebellion, but in obedience. It's in your Bible.

Gen. 26:
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

you can repeat the lie that Abraham had the Torah all you want, it does not make it true. the language says otherwise.

you should actually know what you are talking about before just saying it. if the definition of the word does not fit what you think, then you change what you think to match the definition, not change or ignore the definition to push what you think.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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that is what the Hebrew Bible says studyman.

but, your are right. in my religion, words have definitions and meanings. in yours, you only use them if they fit your agenda.

so, see, in order to join your belief system, I would have to ignore the same word for law being used 190 or so times in the N.T., I would have to believe that God gave Abraham the Torah, when the word is Torat, not Torah, etc...

you do understand that the Scrolls that the Books and letters that the Bible were written in languages that were far, far from English right? you get that they had to be interperated right?
Yes, I get that. But the first preachers the Word which became Flesh assigned corrupted the interpretation. So He created a New Covenant where He would write His Word's in our hearts, we would not need for "men" to interpret His Word's for us as you preach. You still rely on the old Covenant for your understanding. Preachers, members of religious corporations which use God's Word to make money and power, just like the first "administers" of God's Law did.

I believe in the New Covenant where the Spirit of the Christ Himself empowers me with the Spirit of Truth. I have God's Words in my Home, in my mind and heart. Why would I "return again" to the weak and beggarly ways of letting some carnal man interpret God's Word for me?

You can trust in man and their long haired images of God and their religious High Days if you want. That Path is huge, and "many" are on it.

But I trust the Word which became Flesh and will cling to Him. I know religious men will ridicule me for this becuase they ridiculed Jesus first.

Just keep posting G9, as Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits".
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There's still no conditional word if or then in Genesis 12, no matter how many times you insert your own.

When you say 'regarding Romans 4' next time you might try actually talking about Romans 4.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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you can repeat the lie that Abraham had the Torah all you want, it does not make it true. the language says otherwise.

you should actually know what you are talking about before just saying it. if the definition of the word does not fit what you think, then you change what you think to match the definition, not change or ignore the definition to push what you think.
I know the Word which became Flesh says Abraham had God's Laws and I know you preach he didn't.

No surprise there.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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There's still no conditional word if or then in Genesis 12, no matter how many times you insert your own.

When you say 'regarding Romans 4' next time you might try actually talking about Romans 4.
I understand Post,

The Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time couldn't understand either.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Yes, I get that. But the first preachers the Word which became Flesh assigned corrupted the interpretation. So He created a New Covenant where He would write His Word's in our hearts, we would not need for "men" to interpret His Word's for us as you preach. You still rely on the old Covenant for your understanding. Preachers, members of religious corporations which use God's Word to make money and power, just like the first "administers" of God's Law did.

I believe in the New Covenant where the Spirit of the Christ Himself empowers me with the Spirit of Truth. I have God's Words in my Home, in my mind and heart. Why would I "return again" to the weak and beggarly ways of letting some carnal man interpret God's Word for me?

You can trust in man and their long haired images of God and their religious High Days if you want. That Path is huge, and "many" are on it.

But I trust the Word which became Flesh and will cling to Him. I know religious men will ridicule me for this becuase they ridiculed Jesus first.

Just keep posting G9, as Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits".

ahh, the classic " corrupted by religious traditions ". I see why you love your man-made religion so much. you just puff away anything and everything that disagrees with it with " corrupted " .

the Mormons believe what you do. congrats on aligning yourself with them.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I understand Post,

The Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time couldn't understand either.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
That's not Romans 4 either. Not sure whether you were aware. . . ? :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Here's an actual physical commandment given to Abraham as the sign of God's covenant with him:

Genesis 17:9-11
And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Literal, physical circumcision. Moses was almost killed for failing to keep it ((or possibly his sons; there's some dispute about that passage)). Jesus tells us that in the Law this took precedence over the sabbath law.

Important.

So how does it become 'nothing' I'm Christ? How does it become even antichrist, a symbol that a person has considered Christ worthless? ((re: Galatians 5))
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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ahh, the classic " corrupted by religious traditions ". I see why you love your man-made religion so much. you just puff away anything and everything that disagrees with it with "corrupted" .
Amen! It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on UNBELIEF (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). :(
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Here's an actual physical commandment given to Abraham as the sign of God's covenant with him:

Genesis 17:9-11
And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Literal, physical circumcision. Moses was almost killed for failing to keep it ((or possibly his sons; there's some dispute about that passage)). Jesus tells us that in the Law this took precedence over the sabbath law.

Important.

So how does it become 'nothing' I'm Christ? How does it become even antichrist, a symbol that a person has considered Christ worthless? ((re: Galatians 5))
Once again, you keep trying to somehow claim that you can take one verse and use it to destroy another verse which doesn't align with your religious tradition, or that obedience to God's Commandments are somehow "Anti-Christ. The serpent convinced eve this was the case, but I don't believe in the serpent.

God had already given Abram a "Physical Commandment" before this and Abraham obeyed Him.

1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

He was already considered righteous because when God told him to "do something" he did.

It wasn't cutting some flesh off his private parts that caused God to bless him, it was his belief in God shown by his honor and respect in obedience. I know this is a stumbling block to "many" who come in Christ's Name. If folks would just repent from their worldly religious traditions and "turn to God" and Glorify Him "AS GOD" they would see what Abraham, Caleb, Rehab, Zechariahs, Cornelius, Stephen, Peter and Paul saw. You would then understand His Words.

Lev. 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

But as it is written by a God that can not lie.

"but they said: We will not walk in them".
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Amen! It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on UNBELIEF (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). :(
It's you and the Popes and Benny Hinns and Joyce Meyer's religion I don't believe in. I believe in the Word's of God as did Paul.

Acts 24:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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It's you and the Popes and Benny Hinns and Joyce Meyer's religion I don't believe in. I believe in the Word's of God as did Paul.

Acts 24:
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

the Mormon religion says the same as you about Scripture being " corrupted ". I would be careful about throwing around a Mormon belief.

and, Paul said these things in a discourse as to what he being accused of. the Pharisees believed in a resurrection . the sadducees did not, Paul was on trail over a belief over a resurrection . he said so himself.

context. history. words. all things I would have to reject to accept the junk you peddle.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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the Mormon religion says the same as you about Scripture being " corrupted ". I would be careful about throwing around a Mormon belief.

and, Paul said these things in a discourse as to what he being accused of. the Pharisees believed in a resurrection . the sadducees did not, Paul was on trail over a belief over a resurrection . he said so himself.

context. history. words. all things I would have to reject to accept the junk you peddle.
Jer. 5:
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I'm sorry G9, I just don't believe Jesus is a Mormon. But it's your religion, you preach whatever you want.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Paul's the one who told the Galatians they would be making Christ out to be nothing if they became circumcised. But circumcision was the command & covenant God gave to Abraham, and the same Paul just told the same Galatians that the Abrahamic covenant was being fulfilled through Christ in them, and how it is a greater covenant superseding the Sinai one with Israel.

It wasn't Joyce Meyers ((who??)), it's the Bible.

How'd this physical covenant sign get turned around like that, from a sign of good to taking an evil mark?