GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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My wife grew up in the RLDS (similar to LDS) church and their founder and false prophet, Joseph Smith Jr claims that he inquired of the Lord of all the sects, which one was right and which one should he join. The following is from their Pearl of Great Price:

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right -- and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight....
He again forbade me to join with any of them (Joseph Smith - History 1:18-20)

Typical cult mentality. :rolleyes:
Not of LDS and As I recall I have not been in one of their churches either.


Apostasy; false worship in HIS the mainstream "church" has always been the main issue through the History of GOD's people.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I posted many scriptures from the same Jesus you claim to honor, so everyone can see what He says about the Pharisees and how you reject His Word's outright to further your religious tradition..
You can say you didn't read it, but we both know you did.
I didn't expect anything differently from you.
You don't know anything. I can't stand reading your posts. I feel like it's a descent into madness and a huge waste of time. If i even read one of your posts out of morbid curiosity, and its long, I just skip to the end to marvel at how your mind works
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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Yes, I get that. But the first preachers the Word which became Flesh assigned corrupted the interpretation. So He created a New Covenant where He would write His Word's in our hearts, we would not need for "men" to interpret His Word's for us as you preach.
Amen!
But it Was GOD's intention from the beginning. HE only prophesied it as new due to their (our) stiff necks and hard hearts.

Israel could not bear the straight up testimony from the FATHER. They cried unto Moses, "Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."

It has always been about The circumcision of the heart. That has always been GOD's intention.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

God is faithful. GOD lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godliness; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law (were not given it physically as Israel), do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
However all have sinned and have fallen short and our consciences (our inner man) need purged to serve the living GOD; a little leaven has leavened the whole. And the wages of sin is death; but the gift of GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. And this is life eternal, that WE might know the only true GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom HE hast sent. That we may be one, even as THEY are one: Jesus in us, and THE FATHER in HIM, that WE may be made perfect in one. A vessel made fit for Holy use; and that the world may know that GOD hast sent Jesus.

(Exo 20:19; Deu 30:6, 11-14; Rom 1:19-21; 2:13-15; Rom 6:23; Joh 17:3,23)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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i don't think any of this means anyone gets to replace

But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the Law of Moses."
(Acts 15:5)

with

"some Pharisees, who were of course only fake believers because ((duh)) they were pharisees, stood up and declared 'the Gentiles who are obviously already obeying the Law of Moses ((except for the sacrificial parts, abiding by the judgements within it, and some other bits we'll leave undefined for now .. oh yeah and circumcision)) must also keep our totally extra-scriptural-and-entirely-human traditions'"
Well, you preach the Word which became Flesh didn't teach the same as the Word which became Flesh. So just because religious man says something, doesn't make it true.

It was the Jesus of the Bible that said "they say and do not". It was the Jesus of the Bible that said they were liars. It was the Jesus of the Bible who said "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees".

It was the Jesus of the Bible who said they "Taught for doctrines the Commandments of men?

He said these things and many more. Since He is my Savior, I have chosen to believe in His Word's.

You are free to believe the Pharisees and reject the Word's of the Christ of you want.

I'm not sure why you would, but hey, I don't know why you would teach Jesus didn't teach the same as a man, than He did as the Word even thought it is written. "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow".
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Israel could not bear the straight up testimony from the FATHER. They cried unto Moses, "Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."
I think it's still like this. IMO many people can't stand the idea of having to deal directly with GOD (lest they have to pick up their cross and die), so they honor and exalt the law of Moses above the words of Christ so they don't have to obey him. And they only pretend to follow the law of Moses while using Christ as a perpetual mulligan. That's basically Christianity in a nutshell to a lot of people.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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You don't know anything. I can't stand reading your posts. I feel like it's a descent into madness and a huge waste of time. If i even read one of your posts out of morbid curiosity, and its long, I just skip to the end to marvel at how your mind works
All this just so you don't have to accept the Word's of the Christ regarding the Pharisees.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Genesis 17 comes before Exodus 20
Ex. 2:
23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

How do you know Ex. 20 and Gen. 17 are not the same?

No mention of Levi in either Chapter.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I think it's still like this. IMO many people can't stand the idea of having to deal directly with GOD (lest they have to pick up their cross and die), so they honor and exalt the law of Moses above the words of Christ so they don't have to obey him. And they only pretend to follow the law of Moses while using Christ as a perpetual mulligan. That's basically Christianity in a nutshell to a lot of people.
It's about what the Bible says. Some things are open for interpretation, some are not. According to Jesus, the Pharisees said they were following the Law of Moses, but they weren't. Zechariahs was, and he knew Jesus when He came. But the Pharisees didn't. Why men would want to preach otherwise is a mystery to me. This preaching doesn't come from Jesus, so where does it come from?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Amen!
But it Was GOD's intention from the beginning. HE only prophesied it as new due to their (our) stiff necks and hard hearts.

Israel could not bear the straight up testimony from the FATHER. They cried unto Moses, "Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."

It has always been about The circumcision of the heart. That has always been GOD's intention.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

God is faithful. GOD lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godliness; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law (were not given it physically as Israel), do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
However all have sinned and have fallen short and our consciences (our inner man) need purged to serve the living GOD; a little leaven has leavened the whole. And the wages of sin is death; but the gift of GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. And this is life eternal, that WE might know the only true GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom HE hast sent. That we may be one, even as THEY are one: Jesus in us, and THE FATHER in HIM, that WE may be made perfect in one. A vessel made fit for Holy use; and that the world may know that GOD hast sent Jesus.

(Exo 20:19; Deu 30:6, 11-14; Rom 1:19-21; 2:13-15; Rom 6:23; Joh 17:3,23)
Yes, "uncircumcised of the heart", as was every example of "Faith" in the Bible, this is my understanding as well.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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It's about what the Bible says. Some things are open for interpretation, some are not. According to Jesus, the Pharisees said they were following the Law of Moses, but they weren't. Zechariahs was, and he knew Jesus when He came. But the Pharisees didn't. Why men would want to preach otherwise is a mystery to me. This preaching doesn't come from Jesus, so where does it come from?
Jesus said the Pharisees were " searching the Scriptures , looking for eternal life". Peter said they killed Christ out of ignorance,

this is why it is bad to take certain verses, elevate them above others, and force all Scripture under into them. that is the true corruption of Scripture. you do this all the time.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I think it's still like this. IMO many people can't stand the idea of having to deal directly with GOD (lest they have to pick up their cross and die), so they honor and exalt the law of Moses above the words of Christ so they don't have to obey him. And they only pretend to follow the law of Moses while using Christ as a perpetual mulligan. That's basically Christianity in a nutshell to a lot of people.
I agree. I think it's a natural human thing to want to hide from God.
we can see it in Adam and Eve.

They heard the voice of God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of God among the trees of the garden.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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It's about what the Bible says. Some things are open for interpretation, some are not. According to Jesus, the Pharisees said they were following the Law of Moses, but they weren't. Zechariahs was, and he knew Jesus when He came. But the Pharisees didn't. Why men would want to preach otherwise is a mystery to me. This preaching doesn't come from Jesus, so where does it come from?
That doesn't change Romans 4.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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I agree. I think it's a natural human thing to want to hide from God.
we can see it in Adam and Eve.

They heard the voice of God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of God among the trees of the garden.
I'm not sure whether they were hiding from God, from Satan, from the animals, from. .. ?

I mean, they came out when God called Adam.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Jesus said the Pharisees were " searching the Scriptures , looking for eternal life". Peter said they killed Christ out of ignorance,

this is why it is bad to take certain verses, elevate them above others, and force all Scripture under into them. that is the true corruption of Scripture. you do this all the time.
I agree 100% about taking a few words, or sentences and using them to make void or untrue other scriptures.

First, I believe we should post the scriptures so we can get a clearer understanding of what they say instead of taking a couple of words out of a sentence and try to build or support doctrine with it.


37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

So it appears they were ignorant of who the Messiah was BECAUSE they didn't believe in the Word's of the God of the Bible.

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So what about the other word you plucked out of a sentence to make a point.

Acts 3:
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

So the Pharisees HAD the Word of God, but didn't believe in them. Peter is telling them to "Repent" from their unbelief and to start "Believing" the Scriptures they searched.

Where have I ever taught against this?
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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That doesn't change Romans 4.
It changes the meaning of Romans 4 if some of your foundation is built on a lie, or if you reject Paul's teaching in Romans 1,2, and 3.

It depends on the reason for your use of Romans 4. If it is to promote a religious doctrine that can't be supported by including the rest of the Bible, I don't think that can be called "Good" or proper use us scriptures. If a person uses Romans 4 in conjunction with the rest of the Bible so as to "learn" what the Bible teaches, that is a good use of the scripture.

But that's just me.
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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here is the real agenda of the Pharisees, out of there own mouths- John 11 v.48 " if we let Him go on like this, Rome will come and take away our temple and nation.

so, they were more concerned with playing politics than following God's word.

and, history tells , about 35 years later, the Pharisees led the rebellion against rome that got exactly what they said here they did not want to happen.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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I'm not sure whether they were hiding from God, from Satan, from the animals, from. .. ?

I mean, they came out when God called Adam.
good point.

The story is sparse

To me the implication is that they hid when they heard the sound of God coming. maybe they came out when they realized there was no hiding?
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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I'm not sure whether they were hiding from God, from Satan, from the animals, from. .. ?

I mean, they came out when God called Adam.
Isn't man really hiding from his own mind? Deceiving himself? Isn't that what the true Light of the Christ exposes? I think it is the wickedness in our mind that we hide from to protect it. Isn't that what Adam and Eve hid for? To hide their own wicked deeds?

Any parent will see this natural trait in their children. We laugh at it in them until they get older. Then hiding their naughtiness isn't so funny.

Man will say, "No way". But who want's to admit they are wrong about anything? Who want's to admit what wickedness or leaven the human mind has tucked away in it.

Besides, that is what Jesus says, YES!

John 3:
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that "doeth" truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


First, most men don't really believe this. Those who do come to the "light" or the "Truth" of the Christ will have exposed the leaven in our mind. This causes humiliation, a most uncomfortable condition. Most men prefer to remain comfortable in their deception and will fight to keep it.

The Pharisees are a perfect example of this. To the point of killing anyone who would "shine God's Light" in their mind to expose their deeds.

A good topic.