God's sovereignty over life and death

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oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#41
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#41
oceanbreeze said:
Please provide scriptural references and expound more if you feel comfortable. I truly am interested in other perspectives
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I have prayed about mask wearing and do not feel convictions going in either direction. I center my actions around this passage...

Romans
14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.
14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.
14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

It is ok to yield a little Christian Liberty for the sake of love and peace when it comes to mask wearing. I am not, however, comfortable with voluntarily letting people shoot stuff under my skin. Sounds like something leading up to 666.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#42
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#42
oceanbreeze said:
thank you Nehemiah 6, I feel like I'm in a part of the world that just doesn't get it at all. The folks I grew up with and the state I live in is under a super leftist spirit and even one of my best friends that prayed me to the Lord in my youth raised her kids on obedience and safety. Although it can be argued that meant obedience to the Lord I think the lines got super blurred with any earthly authority and now I fear the anti-Christ will use our bent toward obedience with safety and guilt people into doing things they never would have or don't even think are offending the Lord and His sovereignty. It gets lonely when you realize that your life long friends and even family don't see the urgency that God is testing who we worship. Who is number one. We think He is but we cling to comfort and our earthly life and can't imagine our loving Lord would test us or disrupt our comfort and safety. It's all very spiritual dangerous.
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I completely understand your point of view and your convictions. God is my Great Physician and I have already been inoculated with the best vaccine that there ever was or will be: that of the blood of His dear Son. The blood was applied to the doorpost long ago, and it is more than sufficient for this man. God bless you, dear sister. Keep the faith.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#44
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,313
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#44
oceanbreeze said:
I feel very strongly that God holds life and death in his hands regardless if we die in an accident, by someone elses hand on purpose, or by our own hand. That ultimately God know the hour of our death and he ultimately holds it his hands. Do you agree? Can you point to the scriptures to back it up? How can we answer those that our sure their lives are in their own hands through health, fitness and obedience to doctors? I mainly want any scriptures for God's sovreignty over life and death. thanks
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Ecclesiastes 3:1-22 there is season under God for everything
Hebrews 9:27 There is an appointed time.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#46
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
13,542
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#46
John146 said:
No such thing as backsliding if all things have been determined by God...
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I heard it said recently that all God does in order to harden a heart is withdraw Himself from it

What do we think of that?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#49
Jul 3, 2015
59,910
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#49
John146 said:
No such thing as backsliding if all things have been determined by God...
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Sounds like you could apply the same principle to sin. Like so:

No such thing as sin if all things have been determined by God.

But we know that is false. Sin exists, and people backslide.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#50
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,313
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#50
John146 said:
Define what you mean by sovereign since it’s not a biblical term. Hopefully, you don’t mean Calvins fatalism...
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YOu really need to stop attacking those who say a term that is not in the Bible but the very word describes the nature of God. God is Sovereign Yet He can be merciful at the same time and answer prayer WOW !!!!. It is not God know all and still can't do what is asked through Prayer HE is ALL:

Knowing
Powerful
Holy
Merciful
Saving
answer prayer
says yes
says no
speak to
listen to

all this is descriptive to HIS Nature which God is at the same time as HE so deems that is SOVEREIGN and this is seen in the very word of God.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#52
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#52
CS1 said:
YOu really need to stop attacking those who say a term that is not in the Bible but the very word describes the nature of God. God is Sovereign Yet He can be merciful at the same time and answer prayer WOW !!!!. It is not God know all and still can't do what is asked through Prayer HE is ALL:

Knowing
Powerful
Holy
Merciful
Saving
answer prayer
says yes
says no
speak to
listen to

all this is descriptive to HIS Nature which God is at the same time as HE so deems that is SOVEREIGN and this is seen in the very word of God.
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Not an attack at all brother. What I meant was whenever many use the term sovereign, they are meaning that God has ordained all things to come to pass. That’s fatalism and a false doctrine. Also, sovereign is usually a hashtag for Calvinism.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#53
May 24, 2014
11,887
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113
#53
posthuman said:
I heard it said recently that all God does in order to harden a heart is withdraw Himself from it
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John146 said:
Sounds right, but I need scripture to make it a go.
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John
12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#54
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
13,542
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#54
John146 said:
Not an attack at all brother. What I meant was whenever many use the term sovereign, they are meaning that God has ordained all things to come to pass. That’s fatalism and a false doctrine. Also, sovereign is usually a hashtag for Calvinism.
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if we are trying to make sure we preserve a distinction between dispensationalism and hyper-dispensationalism, i think we should do the same for calvinism & hyper-calvinism.

it'd be great if someone who really knows could lay it out for me

i'm not sure if basic reformed doctrine believes in double-predestination, for example. but i do know one difference is that reformed doctrine teaches that Christ did indeed die for all, that His sacrifice is sufficient for all, but only applied to those who accept Him. hyper-calvinism on the other hand teaches that Christ's blood isn't meant for and isn't sufficient for anyone other than the elect. that He did not taste death for every man ((as the Bible actually literally says)) but for only those He chose. so limited atonement per calvinism ((the doctrine of the reformation)) is only limited in the sense of application ((in agreement with modern arminianism)) but according to hypercalvinism is limited in sufficiency and intention too.
 
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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#55
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
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#55
posthuman said:
if we are trying to make sure we preserve a distinction between dispensationalism and hyper-dispensationalism, i think we should do the same for calvinism & hyper-calvinism.

it'd be great if someone who really knows could lay it out for me

i'm not sure if basic reformed doctrine believes in double-predestination, for example. but i do know one difference is that reformed doctrine teaches that Christ did indeed die for all, that His sacrifice is sufficient for all, but only applied to those who accept Him. hyper-calvinism on the other hand teaches that Christ's blood isn't meant for and isn't sufficient for anyone other than the elect. that He did not taste death for every man ((as the Bible actually literally says)) but for only those He chose. so limited atonement per calvinism ((the doctrine of the reformation)) is only limited in the sense of application ((in agreement with modern arminianism)) but according to hypercalvinism is limited in sufficiency and intention too.
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i suspect a lot of the people here who spend so much time hating what they call "calvinism" are actually hating hypercalvinism but calling it by the wrong name.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#56
May 23, 2012
13,006
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#56
John146 said:
Not an attack at all brother. What I meant was whenever many use the term sovereign, they are meaning that God has ordained all things to come to pass. That’s fatalism and a false doctrine. Also, the sovereign is usually a hashtag for Calvinism.
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Ok, I will say I never thought it was a term used by those who aline with Calvin. But thank you.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#57
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#57
posthuman said:
i suspect a lot of the people here who spend so much time hating what they call "calvinism" are actually hating hypercalvinism but calling it by the wrong name.
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The BDF has turned into a semantics minefield.:(
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#59
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#59
oyster67 said:
John
12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
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Yep, but with good reason
 
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