My point is that some believe and some don't. And you believe that someone simply audibly hears the gospel and simply chooses within themselves to believe or not. This view does not take into account the condition of a natural fallen man. The Bible teaches that he is dead, being dominated by Satan, and doomed...Ephesians 2:1-3. And it says God quickened or made alive some who were formerly in this estate.
This is where we essentially differ: I believe God must first take someone out of this estate by making them alive and you believe man can simply choose to follow God directly from this estate.
“My point is that some believe and some don't. “
Some will and some won’t. They have to hear the gospel first.
“God quickened or made alive some who were formerly in this estate.
This is where we essentially differ: I believe God must first take someone out of this estate by making them alive and you believe man can simply choose to follow God directly from this estate.”
naw I believe the doctrine in the Bible tells us
how God does what he does like this your saying this “
“God quickened or made alive some who were formerly in this estate.”
I’m saying simply read this doctrine about baptism 😅
“Know ye not, that
so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like
as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For
he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-7 KJV
That’s about those who were baptized into Jesus Christ for remission of sins …..you don’t see how this relates to what you’re saying god needs to do for us ?
“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also
ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
Colossians 2:11-12 KJV
Remember what he was saying before ?
“putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also
ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that
like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
It’s hard to understand why I would want to remove e baptism rather than learn what its value and place on doctrine is .
brother ultimately I believe the Bible explains things clearly itself and I could t actually tell you exactly what you believe I know you think people are chosen and reborn by God first and the. Tbey Will hesr and believe the gospel all because Gid chose them but there’s others he didint choose that won’t believe because that’s his Will and choice not thiers …..
At least that’s what you’ve explained in the past that’s where we differ I believe salvation is a
result of the believing the gospel when we hear it and that anyone has the same opportunity to hear it and believe and be saved but some would rather continue in sin that’s why they won’t come to him because they don’t want to stop sinning and he calls for repentance
“And this is the condemnation, that
light is come into the world, and
men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. ( they don’t want to stop sinning )
But
he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
John 3:19-21 KJV
When we hide from his word it’s because of what he says like this for instance
“I tell you, Nay: but,
except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
People will react differently to that some will hate the word repent others actually find it to be a wonderful word . It’s not because god chose one to save and not the other that’s where we differ
the doctrine is how things happen it’s not magically in a different way getting baptized has meaning a lot of important meaning but only for those willing to listen to the apostles and believe what they said to those folks baptism will mean what is taught in the gospel
