Gospel Confusion...

[studier]

I see nothing about where the disciples were preaching the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That is the gospel Paul preached.

You're likely referring to 1Cor15. Paul is writing to Christians in Corinth he had previously evangelized and taught.

See Acts18 re: Paul in Corinth. Note Acts18:11 re: Paul's time in Corinth. Note Acts18:5 for the Spirit compelled focus - Jesus is the Christ.

See Acts 13:16-41 for the Gospel Paul was proclaiming to both Jews and Greeks. Note within these verses the death, burial, resurrection (which Paul reminds the Corinthians of in 1Cor15). Note Acts13:33 where Paul references Psalm2. Read Psalm2 and note how it explains what "Christ" (Anointed) means and refers to; YHWH's Anointed/Christ - YHWH's KING - to whom He will give the earth - to whom all kings are subservient and whom they best kiss lest He be angry.

See 1Cor3:10-11 re: the foundation Paul laid - Jesus is the Christ (all explained above).

1Cor15 is not "the Gospel" but a summary of points of the Gospel Paul had taught the Corinthians in order to explain to them the necessity of belief in Jesus' resurrection which was proof of the foundation Paul had previous laid - Jesus is the Christ, YHWH's Anointed, YHWH's KING who inherited the earth and to whom all men are subservient.

We should be evangelizing with Psalm2 just as Paul did. Then more would understand who and what Jesus is - what "Christ" means.

The Kingdom carries over from pre-cross to post resurrection. The King was on earth. The resurrected King is at the right hand of the Father with all authority in Heaven and on earth. It's always been and still is about the King and the Kingdom.

 

[Hakawaka]

Do you mean this "dispie scheme"?:

View attachment 273065

That is not dispensationalism. Which was invented in the 1800s. Paul was writing 2000 years ago to Timothy, who didnt even have the entire Bible to "divide" into manmade sections and dispensations. It simply means to correctly handle the truth

 

[Musicmaster]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but before the second coming of Christ, the angel will preach the everlasting gospel. It is obvious that this message is not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

Revelation 14:
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Romans 1 seems to cover that nicely, would you agree?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The Gospel is the Good News re: YHWH's CHRIST/KING which is also the message of the Kingdom of God/Heaven. John the Baptist taught it. Jesus taught it. His disciples taught it. Paul taught it.

Actually, that is incorrect. Paul never did teach anything about the Kingdom because the Kingdom is not for us who are under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Just a question not a judgment on what you have posted. Isn't the story of Abraham after the offering of his son a story of a father looking for a bride for his son and his servant is a picture of the Holy Spirit?

Good question.

When it comes to the practice of drawing out parallels with any measure of certainty to events and people far removed from one another in time, the compounded difficulties that ensue can be problematic to definitively prove one way or the other.

The question I would ask is, looking at those things that apply to us right now, rightly dividing between that which was for Israel and that which has broader scope of encompassing measures to us today, how then do we superimpose those over other things in the distant past to see if there's a fit?
Even if there is a seeming fit in the limitations of our intellect, we should also ask if those events involving those people have any lasting and consistent bearing upon what the Lord has applied to us today.

The one certainty that I can surmise as being relevant to us today is this:

1 John 2:26-27
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

There are many seductive teachings out there that make use of allegorized comparatives, of which I am generally wary. If there is a connection in those two sections of scripture that rises to the level of relevance for us, then the Spirit of the Lord is the One final authority who can validate the connection far more authoritatively than I.

In other words, I don't know. I prefer to leave that to the Lord for His thoughts, for we can indeed ask the Lord for His thoughts, no matter how much higher than ours as the Heavens are above the earth.

I hope that gives you something of greater substance to go on than my feeble agreements or disagreements, given that we all are liars, but the Lord true.

MM

 

[studier]

Actually, that is incorrect. Paul never did teach anything about the Kingdom because the Kingdom is not for us who are under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

I'm not going to do all the work, but here's where I'd begin re: Paul & the Kingdom of God:

NKJ Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God."

NKJ Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.

NKJ Acts 20:25 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more.

NKJ Acts 28:23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.

NKJ Acts 28:31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.

NKJ Rom. 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

NKJ 1 Cor. 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.

NKJ 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

NKJ 1 Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ 1 Cor. 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

NKJ 1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

NKJ Gal. 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ Eph. 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

NKJ Col. 4:11 and Jesus who is called Justus. These are my only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are of the circumcision; they have proved to be a comfort to me.

NKJ 1 Thess. 2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

NKJ 2 Thess. 1:5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

NKJ 2 Tim. 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I'm not going to do all the work, but here's where I'd begin re: Paul & the Kingdom of God:

NKJ Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God."

NKJ Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.

NKJ Acts 20:25 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more.

NKJ Acts 28:23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.

NKJ Acts 28:31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.

NKJ Rom. 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

NKJ 1 Cor. 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.

NKJ 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

NKJ 1 Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ 1 Cor. 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

NKJ 1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

NKJ Gal. 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ Eph. 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

NKJ Col. 4:11 and Jesus who is called Justus. These are my only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are of the circumcision; they have proved to be a comfort to me.

NKJ 1 Thess. 2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

NKJ 2 Thess. 1:5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

NKJ 2 Tim. 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

lol I don't think MM even reads the bible

 

[John146]

You're likely referring to 1Cor15. Paul is writing to Christians in Corinth he had previously evangelized and taught.

See Acts18 re: Paul in Corinth. Note Acts18:11 re: Paul's time in Corinth. Note Acts18:5 for the Spirit compelled focus - Jesus is the Christ.

See Acts 13:16-41 for the Gospel Paul was proclaiming to both Jews and Greeks. Note within these verses the death, burial, resurrection (which Paul reminds the Corinthians of in 1Cor15). Note Acts13:33 where Paul references Psalm2. Read Psalm2 and note how it explains what "Christ" (Anointed) means and refers to; YHWH's Anointed/Christ - YHWH's KING - to whom He will give the earth - to whom all kings are subservient and whom they best kiss lest He be angry.

See 1Cor3:10-11 re: the foundation Paul laid - Jesus is the Christ (all explained above).

1Cor15 is not "the Gospel" but a summary of points of the Gospel Paul had taught the Corinthians in order to explain to them the necessity of belief in Jesus' resurrection which was proof of the foundation Paul had previous laid - Jesus is the Christ, YHWH's Anointed, YHWH's KING who inherited the earth and to whom all men are subservient.

We should be evangelizing with Psalm2 just as Paul did. Then more would understand who and what Jesus is - what "Christ" means.

The Kingdom carries over from pre-cross to post resurrection. The King was on earth. The resurrected King is at the right hand of the Father with all authority in Heaven and on earth. It's always been and still is about the King and the Kingdom.

The gospel unto salvation is specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. The disciples did not preach this prior to the cross, nor had any understanding of the cross.

 

[studier]

The gospel unto salvation is specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. The disciples did not preach this prior to the cross, nor had any understanding of the cross.

YHWH's KING presented Himself pre-crucifixion & post resurrection.

The 1Cor15 Gospel doesn't even follow the flow of what Paul was proclaiming. Firstly, for the Gentiles, they needed to know what "Christ" means. That's what Paul can be seen proclaiming and teaching in Acts13. Did you catch the part in Acts18 that says Paul stayed there teaching for 3 years. If we just start with 1Cor15 we're missing much of what Paul did and taught. Read someone who knows nothing 1Cor15 and they won't even know what "Christ" means, and you'll leave them with a story about a man named Jesus whose last name is Christ, and the enemy will jump in and confuse him and take him captive with all kinds of nonsense about the undefined Jesus. This whole adventure we're on boils down to who we accept as our authority; Jesus YHWH's Christ/KING or something or someone else.

What's your problem with the Scripture I laid out for you or the Scriptures in #166 that show Paul teaching and proclaiming the Kingdom of God? That Kingdom has a living KING to whom all knees shall bow. The death, burial & resurrection is surely a part of it, but explain who and what Christ means. Get Psalm 2 into hearts and minds. We have way too many "christians" who never learned the bow to the KING part and think they're on their way to heaven. Paul in 1Cor15 i writing to Christians who were evangelized and taught by him and he's shoring up the vital importance of the resurrection - without which Jesus is not the CHRIST/KING and our Faith is worthless. This is the main point of the Gospel. The resurrection proved who Jesus is. Now bow and keep bowing and learn about Him, what He's done for us, and do what He says.

 

[John146]

YHWH's KING presented Himself pre-crucifixion & post resurrection.

The 1Cor15 Gospel doesn't even follow the flow of what Paul was proclaiming. Firstly, for the Gentiles, they needed to know what "Christ" means. That's what Paul can be seen proclaiming and teaching in Acts13. Did you catch the part in Acts18 that says Paul stayed there teaching for 3 years. If we just start with 1Cor15 we're missing much of what Paul did and taught. Read someone who knows nothing 1Cor15 and they won't even know what "Christ" means, and you'll leave them with a story about a man named Jesus whose last name is Christ, and the enemy will jump in and confuse him and take him captive with all kinds of nonsense about the undefined Jesus. This whole adventure we're on boils down to who we accept as our authority; Jesus YHWH's Christ/KING or something or someone else.

What's your problem with the Scripture I laid out for you or the Scriptures in #166 that show Paul teaching and proclaiming the Kingdom of God? That Kingdom has a living KING to whom all knees shall bow. The death, burial & resurrection is surely a part of it, but explain who and what Christ means. Get Psalm 2 into hearts and minds. We have way too many "christians" who never learned the bow to the KING part and think they're on their way to heaven. Paul in 1Cor15 i writing to Christians who were evangelized and taught by him and he's shoring up the vital importance of the resurrection - without which Jesus is not the CHRIST/KING and our Faith is worthless. This is the main point of the Gospel. The resurrection proved who Jesus is. Now bow and keep bowing and learn about Him, what He's done for us, and do what He says.

The kingdom of God is the spiritual kingdom that lives inside the believer. Don't get that confused with the gospel of the kingdom to be proclaimed only to the Jews. See Matthew 10. The gospel of the kingdom has to do with the promised restoration of Israel's kingdom with their Messiah ruling from David's throne. It is a earthly, physical, visible, kingdom in Jerusalem.

Paul's gospel is all about the death, burial, and resurrection for sins. Period. I agree, the death of Christ is none effect without the resurrection.

 

[Leastofall]

Paul said that he preached Christ crucified several times as his message to those that listened.
Call me thick headed or what ever but this debate is like a dog chasing its tail to me.
What was the preaching of Paul? Since there was no new testament writings at this time. What in the old testament would Paul expound upon to preach this message? To the jew and also the God fearers ( gentiles). This imo is the homework we need to investigate.
That would even apply to all the preaching at this time. Yet many were saved jew and gentile alike.
This is what needs to be considered imo. Where are the truths hidden in the shadows of the old to bring light to the new?

 

[studier]

The kingdom of God is the spiritual kingdom that lives inside the believer. Don't get that confused with the gospel of the kingdom to be proclaimed only to the Jews. See Matthew 10. The gospel of the kingdom has to do with the promised restoration of Israel's kingdom with their Messiah ruling from David's throne. It is a earthly, physical, visible, kingdom in Jerusalem.

Paul's gospel is all about the death, burial, and resurrection for sins. Period. I agree, the death of Christ is none effect without the resurrection.

The spiritual Kingdom is still the Kingdom. Even though we live in the world, we live in the Kingdom as it exists under the dominion of the Christ/King who also owns the earth and reigns in Heaven. The Kingdom has characteristics that Jesus taught many things about mostly through parables.

I'm aware of the proclamation of the Kingdom to Israel and that the Kingdom was taken from Israel and given to nations who will produce the fruits of it (Matt21). From there we go into eschatology with its different views.

At the base of all of this is the fact that we today believe in / are in submission to Jesus YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King whose Kingdom is the Kingdom of God which we are now in and of in its current form.

The Only Foundation that can be laid is that Jesus is YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King (1Cor3, Acts18, Acts13, Ps2). That is the foundation of Paul's Gospel per the Scriptures I posted. The death, burial and resurrection are part of that foundational message that prove Jesus is YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King over the Kingdom of God/Heaven which rules the creation and everything in it as YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King Jesus was given all authority in Heaven and on earth. This is the Gospel message of the Kingdom and its King that is the Great Commission of Matt28 - go disciple all nations - teach all Jesus commands. I also posted a list of Scriptures showing Paul dealing with the Kingdom of God in an already and not yet fashion which is typical of the eschaton.

The 1Cor15 "gospel" is a part of the "Gospel of God" about His Son (also Ps2) and on its own is contributing to a watered-down message leaving many without the knowledge that in fact God's King rules everything and to Him all need to bow and do what He says. This is the Foundation of The Faith.

 

[John146]

The spiritual Kingdom is still the Kingdom. Even though we live in the world, we live in the Kingdom as it exists under the dominion of the Christ/King who also owns the earth and reigns in Heaven. The Kingdom has characteristics that Jesus taught many things about mostly through parables.

I'm aware of the proclamation of the Kingdom to Israel and that the Kingdom was taken from Israel and given to nations who will produce the fruits of it (Matt21). From there we go into eschatology with its different views.

At the base of all of this is the fact that we today believe in / are in submission to Jesus YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King whose Kingdom is the Kingdom of God which we are now in and of in its current form.

The Only Foundation that can be laid is that Jesus is YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King (1Cor3, Acts18, Acts13, Ps2). That is the foundation of Paul's Gospel per the Scriptures I posted. The death, burial and resurrection are part of that foundational message that prove Jesus is YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King over the Kingdom of God/Heaven which rules the creation and everything in it as YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ King Jesus was given all authority in Heaven and on earth. This is the Gospel message of the Kingdom and its King that is the Great Commission of Matt28 - go disciple all nations - teach all Jesus commands. I also posted a list of Scriptures showing Paul dealing with the Kingdom of God in an already and not yet fashion which is typical of the eschaton.

The 1Cor15 "gospel" is a part of the "Gospel of God" about His Son (also Ps2) and on its own is contributing to a watered-down message leaving many without the knowledge that in fact God's King rules everything and to Him all need to bow and do what He says. This is the Foundation of The Faith.

The disciples were still asking about the kingdom being restored after the resurrection. Jesus responds, it is not for you to know.

Acts 1:
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[studier]

Paul said that he preached Christ crucified several times as his message to those that listened.
Call me thick headed or what ever but this debate is like a dog chasing its tail to me.
What was the preaching of Paul? Since there was no new testament writings at this time. What in the old testament would Paul expound upon to preach this message? To the jew and also the God fearers ( gentiles). This imo is the homework we need to investigate.
That would even apply to all the preaching at this time. Yet many were saved jew and gentile alike.
This is what needs to be considered imo. Where are the truths hidden in the shadows of the old to bring light to the new?

See post #161 and track Paul through Scripture for yourself. Everyone should do so IMO. Paul's evangelistic proclamation to the Jews and God Fearers (good recognition BTW) is very succinct in Acts13. It's a message the Jews should understand, and the God-fearing Gentiles could learn from or get shored up by because it would specifically detail who and what "Christ" is and means according to Paul's direction and referencing to OC Scripture including Ps2. This message also includes mention of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as proof that Jesus is the Christ and from this instruction Paul draws to make the case in 1Cor15 that Jesus is the Christ as proven by the resurrection.

Psalm 2 should be in the mind and at the fingertips of every Christian who wants to proclaim Jesus the Christ - the King of the earth (and beyond).

 

[studier]

The disciples were still asking about the kingdom being restored after the resurrection. Jesus responds, it is not for you to know.

Acts 1:
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

And Paul was evangelizing and teaching about the King and His Kingdom, which according to these translations we are now in:

NKJ Colossians 1:13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

NET Colossians 1:13 He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,

As I said, when dealing with the eschaton, last things, there is an already and not yet presentation and way of thinking we need to have. The Kingdom is established and will be fully established.

 

[GWH]

GL 5:1-16 (edited) seems relevant for this thread:

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery... You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth?... The one who is throwing you into confusion... will have to pay the penalty... Do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather... love your neighbor as yourself... walk by the Spirit."

 

[Musicmaster]

I'm not going to do all the work, but here's where I'd begin re: Paul & the Kingdom of God:

NKJ Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God."

NKJ Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.

NKJ Acts 20:25 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more.

NKJ Acts 28:23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.

NKJ Acts 28:31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.

NKJ Rom. 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

NKJ 1 Cor. 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.

NKJ 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

NKJ 1 Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ 1 Cor. 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

NKJ 1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

NKJ Gal. 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ Eph. 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

NKJ Col. 4:11 and Jesus who is called Justus. These are my only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are of the circumcision; they have proved to be a comfort to me.

NKJ 1 Thess. 2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

NKJ 2 Thess. 1:5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

NKJ 2 Tim. 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

Thanks for all the quotes, and you made a good point about a weakness in my statement. For clarification, Paul never made reference to the Kingdom of God that is to come in the Millennium given that we are not destined for that kingdom. As is pointed out in a popular website (https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-of-God.html),

"More narrowly, the kingdom of God is a spiritual rule over the hearts and lives of those who willingly submit to God’s authority. Those who defy God’s authority and refuse to submit to Him are not part of the kingdom of God; in contrast, those who acknowledge the lordship of Christ and gladly surrender to God’s rule in their hearts are part of the kingdom of God. In this sense, the kingdom of God is spiritual—Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36), and He preached that repentance is necessary to be a part of the kingdom of God (Matthew 4:17). That the kingdom of God can be equated with the sphere of salvation is evident in John 3:5–7, where Jesus says the kingdom of God must be entered into by being born again. See also 1 Corinthians 6:9."

The small hand full of times where his reference to the Kingdom has to do with the Millennial Kingdom, it was to Jews in synagogues. For him to have addressed that to the body of Christ, that would have contradicted other of his statements, such as:

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We are not destined for the new earth nor the New Jerusalem. The Kingdom was promised to Abraham and his offspring, which does not include us who are under the Gospel of Grace.

Thanks for pointing out the weakness in such a broad statement that I should have narrowed down to a more specific meaning.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

There was a claim made in one of the threads on this board where the writer stated that Paul didn't say anything about the water baptism for remission of sins in 1 Corinthians 15, because that was already understood by the Gentile believers.

Well, there's a fundamental problem with this claim, namely posterity. In other words, to say that Paul left out water baptism as a requirement for salvation as was preached by the eleven, and specifically by Peter after Pentecost in Acts 2, that would make Paul guilty of a grievous omission. This silly notion some have that suggests the followers of Christ carried around with them a New Testament Bible scroll in their satchels is pure nonsense. Additionally, to say that they already knew about the alleged requirement for them to perform water baptism for remission of sins, and therefore no need for repeating... Come on! Wake up!

It makes sense Paul knew very well that what he wrote to the churches he had planted would be the lasting posterity of his teachings to them, going on beyond his own lifetime, thus providing an authoritative guide to generations to come against the heresies of the Gnostics and Agnostics that were well established even in his time, not to mention the Judaisers. The copying of his letters was already well underway during his life while walking this earth, as is understood by all the scholars of Church and biblical history that I have ever read.

Assuming omissions into the texts where Paul laid out, with precision, His gospel that he preached to the churches in 1 Corinthians 15, it makes no sense that he would leave out such an allegedly important element such as water baptism for remission of sins if that were still an element of the Gospel of Grace. The lack that some seem to have experienced in their understanding about what grace means, along with adding to that any measure of works-based effort on the part of believers, it absolutely defies what Paul said in his writings:

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

All who are accursed by preaching the works-based gospel of the Kingdom as if it were still in play today, they are, well, accursed, as Paul commanded:

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Pretty heavy stuff that so many today and historically have been violating for centuries. Where the Kingdom Gospel was true for those who were under that dispensation, but to illegitimately carry elements of that gospel, as the chains of enslavement to those who are under grace (unmerited favor), Paul clearly stated that they are accursed, those who should knew better.

Those who would argue that water baptism isn't a work...good luck with that. When one is saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, then anything...ANYTHING one may do in addition to that is meaningless in gaining what one already has by grace through faith. Water baptism, although practiced by those who were under the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul, there is not one statement made among those texts where anyone even uttered a hint of that act having any salvational effect other than it being an exercised desire to show outwardly the inner work already accomplished within them.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Peter, then, was the apostle to Israel, with Paul to Gentiles as the body of Christ, which also included some Jews, although a very small number then and now.

MM

 

[Psalm1]

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles!

And Peter
And others.
Paul was constantly preaching to the Jews.
Paul said " to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentiles "
Paul put his countrymen ahead of the Gentiles.
( this shows us the emphasis of the hyperpauline assumptions is error by emphasis)
No doubt rejecting the verses and message of the entire Bible will create error every time.

Thank God we have the entire Bible.
The Holy Ghost inspired word of God.
We can rest assured it is given to his people.
One and only one Holy Spirit.
Not Paul.
Not Peter
The same Holy Spirit speaking to all the Apostles. Not 2 Holy Spirits confused over " what is the correct Gospel."

 

[Psalm1]

Thanks for all the quotes, and you made a good point about a weakness in my statement. For clarification, Paul never made reference to the Kingdom of God that is to come in the Millennium given that we are not destined for that kingdom. As is pointed out in a popular website (https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-of-God.html),

"More narrowly, the kingdom of God is a spiritual rule over the hearts and lives of those who willingly submit to God’s authority. Those who defy God’s authority and refuse to submit to Him are not part of the kingdom of God; in contrast, those who acknowledge the lordship of Christ and gladly surrender to God’s rule in their hearts are part of the kingdom of God. In this sense, the kingdom of God is spiritual—Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36), and He preached that repentance is necessary to be a part of the kingdom of God (Matthew 4:17). That the kingdom of God can be equated with the sphere of salvation is evident in John 3:5–7, where Jesus says the kingdom of God must be entered into by being born again. See also 1 Corinthians 6:9."

The small hand full of times where his reference to the Kingdom has to do with the Millennial Kingdom, it was to Jews in synagogues. For him to have addressed that to the body of Christ, that would have contradicted other of his statements, such as:

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We are not destined for the new earth nor the New Jerusalem. The Kingdom was promised to Abraham and his offspring, which does not include us who are under the Gospel of Grace.

Thanks for pointing out the weakness in such a broad statement that I should have narrowed down to a more specific meaning.

MM

Nope.
It is both.
We see believers occupying actual thrones in Rev 20.
We see the word of God saying to the church we are seated together with Jesus now.

It is not either<>or.
It Is both.

Hyperpaulines are one dimensional.
I can imagine the struggle of Hyperpaulines over the verse in Rev 5 where Jesus is a lion and a lamb in the same sentence.

That must be some heavy challenge to the one dimensional hyperpauline doctrine.

The kingdom of God is now and future.
Basic kindergarten bible 101.