Gospel or theology?

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Are theologians a gift from God to the church? Are theologians listed in the bible? Are they in Ephesians 4:11? Are college professors who teach theology to be classified as theologians?

The essence of the gospel is easy enough to be understood by a child.

Advanced study of the bible and history of biblical times is a great thing. Thank God for those who have the patience to study such matters and do it well for the glory of God. Thank God for those who study the original languages in which the bible was written. There is much to be learned from language and culture of the apostolic period and the much older Jewish era.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would agree no gift of infallibility or what scriptures calls a daysman . We are warned of those (antichrists) who do say we need a man, the temporal to teach them .

Just as one is our unseen father in heaven and we call no man father on earth the same applies to teacher or Rabbi master.

Even the Son of man refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father and said . . only God (not seen) is good. defining the un-seen Holy place as good and the temporal corrupted. No man can serve tow teaching masters in that way.

The Son of man, Jesus dared not to stand in the Holy place as the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel .But rather gave glory to God not seen .

How does culture affect the gospel and why the use of the word "apostolic" . Is that not more of a Catholic usage?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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Study to show yourself approved of God...a workman rightly dividing the word of truth.

My thoughts are, every student of the Bible, every disciple of Jesus, needs to have at least read or heard the gospels.

Then they can go on to the other letters of the NT, but there is a reason why the four gospels are placed first in the New Testament.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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It constantly amazes me the anti-intellectual bent of so many in this forum. And in fact, it is a direct contradiction to the Bible:

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15

Too many people here have twisted or wrong doctrines. They got that, because they do not know how to correctly handle the Word of truth. It is also the height of arrogance to boast you know more than you do, as so many people do.

I always had some low rate preachers. Once I started hearing sermons that actually were hermeneutically correct, I began to ask God how I could study and learn more like the preacher. I craved to know more than just my attempts to study the Bible for 25 years. That included Bible studies, daily read through the Bible once a year, and taking notes on sermons.

God's answer was to call me to seminary - not once, but twice! I didn't go the first time, because I didn't know God could call women. The second time, that calling kept me going, despite terrible obstacles with my health.

If your calling is not to go to seminary and learn more, than don't put down the people who do have this calling in their hearts and lives. I would not be serving God in a meaningful way if he had not called me, and given me the Holy Spirit to help me through the ups and downs of 7 years of taking courses! And I know there are others in this forum who have also obeyed God and gone to seminary, and are stronger Christians, because of it.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
It constantly amazes me the anti-intellectual bent of so many in this forum.
I would say anti-intellectualism has become more pervasive in evangelicalism.

There is definitely a place for intellectual rigor... Romans would be a prime example.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,328
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Knowledge and understanding is a great asset, but if one cannot teach that knowledge and understanding to one's audience, where is the benefit?
I applaud all who have the intellect and opportunity to go to collage or seminary, but far to many that I have met completely fail when it comes to teaching the average church member.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
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Knowledge and understanding is a great asset, but if one cannot teach that knowledge and understanding to one's audience, where is the benefit?
I applaud all who have the intellect and opportunity to go to collage or seminary, but far to many that I have met completely fail when it comes to teaching the average church member.

Amen....read the scripture, make the sense known and give a reasonable application of the word......

A preacher, pastor's and or teacher's job.......
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,328
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Amen....read the scripture, make the sense known and give a reasonable application of the word......

A preacher, pastor's and or teacher's job.......
If a preacher, pastor, or teacher is good at his calling, he will never have to tell others and brag about his ability and education. Others will tell him.
The key to teaching is knowing what you are teaching and understanding the ability of those being taught to understand and learn.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
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If a preacher, pastor, or teacher is good at his calling, he will never have to tell others and brag about his ability and education. Others will tell him.
The key to teaching is knowing what you are teaching and understanding the ability of those being taught to understand and learn.
I fully agree......and or be used of God on such a level that it becomes all too obvious that the person is being used of God.....like Paul for example
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
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I fully agree......and or be used of God on such a level that it becomes all too obvious that the person is being used of God.....like Paul for example
It is not about impressing those you teach with your education and ability, it is about them knowing Jesus.
Paul had the ability to teach the educated, mature, and immature.
He understood his audience and taught them so as to understand.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
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It is not about impressing those you teach with your education and ability, it is about them knowing Jesus.
Paul had the ability to teach the educated, mature, and immature.
He understood his audience and taught them so as to understand.
I agree.....people fail to understand that the Holy Spirit accompanies the word and said Spirit leads, guides and illuminates the truth to those that need understanding.....I had a guy I was in seminary with tell me once at a church camp in Arkansas that I needed to bring it down to the kids level....I ripped him a new one....He got up and preached about his dog named Jack, made jokes, and embarrassed himself....I got up and ripped 45 minutes on true discipleship and what it costs with about the first 5 minutes on biblical salvation.....had 9 kids come forward to be saved and 1 surrender to preach and a handful rededicate their lives to the Lord.....was about 650 people there......if we can make the sense known and give a good application of the word....God will deal with the results
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,242
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Its cos I work with children and most of them arent intellectual but I do challenge them to use their minds.
When I was at university the way it was taught was more like regurgitate this paper, reference this study, etc. It didnt really foster personal inquiry. There was also critical analysis, but the thing is its quite crammed into semesters now. So much pressure because the pace of life is faster. People now just take soundbites, you cant possibly fit in all your required reading in the time they give you.

For people to be intellectual and put their mind to it they need to actually read, then meditate on the Bible first. Before anything else.

Get the basics right, the foundation and then expand.

The problem is, for some people reading the Bible isnt a priority, and getting someones elses second hand opinion of it seems more impressive. Well its not. YOU need to the the one studying scripture praying and asking God about it before you even go to what Tozer wrote, or Bullinger, or Augustine or Calvin or Cs Lewis or Origen or whoever.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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And of all those men, who wrote all these theolgical works how do you know that you can trust their opinions? Most of them are dead and not around to communicate with us how they came to that conclusions. But we can always consult God Himself, as the author of the Bible. We check scripture that things are so. We can ask God, what version of the Bible will you speak to me?

This is a very different way of studying the Bible then going through it with a fine tooth comb and trying to find errors and flaws and anomalies. Or comparing other peoples written opinions of it. Or even as some theological schools might do (not all) treating it as ordinary literature or asking if it really says what it was meant to say.

I have a lot of respect for those whom the Bible is a life long study than one who thinks they can master it in just three years of tertiary study. That ought to be just the starting point. Yes we need more Bibles in schools, definitely. But for every school, not just for some people. The Holy Bible is an entire library. It is a treasurehouse. You may wear yourself out reading it and argue over it and never get to the end of it. But thing is its meant to be shared, not hidden away. We each approach it at the level we at and can only teach what we ourselves have been given. For those who have more, theres so much more.

You dont read it once and then forget it, at least those with a hunger and thirst for it will just go deeper. Im always learning so much whenever I open my Bible. Even if Ive read those passgages hundreds of times. There might be something I missed God shows me something new and illuminates to me something I had not grasped before.....
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,755
1,821
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Knowledge and understanding is a great asset, but if one cannot teach that knowledge and understanding to one's audience, where is the benefit?
I applaud all who have the intellect and opportunity to go to collage or seminary, but far to many that I have met completely fail when it comes to teaching the average church member.

Best pastor I ever sat under had a PhD. He would do passages, great start right there. He would mix his sermons with Greek and Hebrew, word studies and grammar, with simple truths.

The church had lots of retired pastors and missionaries who appreciated the depth. But it also had people who were ESL, English as a second language. My best friend was from Peru. English was not her thing. She would always tell me in detail all she had gotten out of the sermon. Some things were different than what I got, but more things were the same.

Unfortunately, we moved from that city and province. But, it was a real church, with real people, my friends and family. We all benefitted by having a highly educated pastor.

Your sweeping generalizations mean nothing. I can give you examples like that in all the churches I have been in since 1995, educated pastors feeding their congregations, because of their education, which the Holy Spirit uses for God's glory . Both before and after I went to seminary. I doubt you have any examples, with your anti-intellectual bent, and disobedience to 2Tim 2:15!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,584
1,871
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It constantly amazes me the anti-intellectual bent of so many in this forum. And in fact, it is a direct contradiction to the Bible:

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15

Too many people here have twisted or wrong doctrines. They got that, because they do not know how to correctly handle the Word of truth. It is also the height of arrogance to boast you know more than you do, as so many people do.

I always had some low rate preachers. Once I started hearing sermons that actually were hermeneutically correct, I began to ask God how I could study and learn more like the preacher. I craved to know more than just my attempts to study the Bible for 25 years. That included Bible studies, daily read through the Bible once a year, and taking notes on sermons.

God's answer was to call me to seminary - not once, but twice! I didn't go the first time, because I didn't know God could call women. The second time, that calling kept me going, despite terrible obstacles with my health.

If your calling is not to go to seminary and learn more, than don't put down the people who do have this calling in their hearts and lives. I would not be serving God in a meaningful way if he had not called me, and given me the Holy Spirit to help me through the ups and downs of 7 years of taking courses! And I know there are others in this forum who have also obeyed God and gone to seminary, and are stronger Christians, because of it.
Do not desire to be like the preacher or a particular theologian. Desire to be like Jesus. We are admonished from scripture to be like Jesus. Other men are flawed Jesus is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Blake21

New member
Jul 16, 2019
4
4
3
We are to share the Gospel with people, but when does the Gospel become theology? What is the good news anyway, and how do you separate this good news from religion?
The good news is that Christ died for us and paid for our sins so that we can have a relationship with God the Father and for salvation.

Only way to truly separate this from religion is through love. Once you fully understand and receive God’s unconditional love, it will change you, then your family then others. This is how it was meant to be shared ❤️
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,328
943
113
Best pastor I ever sat under had a PhD. He would do passages, great start right there. He would mix his sermons with Greek and Hebrew, word studies and grammar, with simple truths.

The church had lots of retired pastors and missionaries who appreciated the depth. But it also had people who were ESL, English as a second language. My best friend was from Peru. English was not her thing. She would always tell me in detail all she had gotten out of the sermon. Some things were different than what I got, but more things were the same.

Unfortunately, we moved from that city and province. But, it was a real church, with real people, my friends and family. We all benefitted by having a highly educated pastor.

Your sweeping generalizations mean nothing. I can give you examples like that in all the churches I have been in since 1995, educated pastors feeding their congregations, because of their education, which the Holy Spirit uses for God's glory . Both before and after I went to seminary. I doubt you have any examples, with your anti-intellectual bent, and disobedience to 2Tim 2:15!
Surprised that you would judge me--
Where is your proof that I am disobedient to 2 Tim. 2:15?
And what did I say that you judge as "anti-intellectual bent"?

I said I applauded those with the intellect and opportunity to go to collage or seminary.
I applaud you for your dedication.

My personal experience is that many who have attended seminary lack the ability to teach others what they have been privileged to learn.

Having the greatest education in the world is of no value to anyone other than the one educated if that educated one lacks the ability to teach others.

Many of God's most useful/successful pastors have never attended seminary.

I know that many seminary educated pastors are great teachers.

But lady, when you suggest that you or any one else is a better teacher, or more useful in God's service based solely on the fact that you have attended seminary 7 years------
Well, I find that very sad.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,314
15,069
113
Surprised that you would judge me--
Where is your proof that I am disobedient to 2 Tim. 2:15?
And what did I say that you judge as "anti-intellectual bent"?

I said I applauded those with the intellect and opportunity to go to collage or seminary.
I applaud you for your dedication.

My personal experience is that many who have attended seminary lack the ability to teach others what they have been privileged to learn.

Having the greatest education in the world is of no value to anyone other than the one educated if that educated one lacks the ability to teach others.

Many of God's most useful/successful pastors have never attended seminary.

I know that many seminary educated pastors are great teachers.

But lady, when you suggest that you or any one else is a better teacher, or more useful in God's service based solely on the fact that you have attended seminary 7 years------
Well, I find that very sad.
How many Apostles were educated....and even PAUL had to be reeducated..........the power is in the word, not the messenger
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,559
3,218
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How many Apostles were educated....and even PAUL had to be reeducated..........the power is in the word, not the messenger
Correct and very significant. As far as the learned men of Jesus' day were concerned, the apostles were "unlearned men" (probably regarded as ignorant and uncultured). But those were precisely the men selected by God. The same applies to believers in general:

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called (1 Cor 1:26).

God has a purpose in this which goes contrary to the standards of the world:

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men...
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 

Yuccaman

New member
Jul 10, 2019
15
17
3
North Alabama
I believe that God does use education and study of the word for His glory. BUT , God most certainly looks at the heart of a pastor, teacher, or ordained person far and away above their intellectual capability.

For instance , the best pastor I have at under had no theological seminary whatsoever. Yet, I would put his preaching above anyone to date that has been educated , that I've had the pleasure of listening to. And I'm not saying that I've not heard great seminary trained pastors, because I have.

Then on the flip side of the coin... I have seen multilingual missionaries who could dissect all sort of theological points, and couldn't even begin a conversation with someone who didn't know Jesus. I'm not joking here. I witness this about 3 months ago.

When being theological simply for theologies sake begins to happen, then someone is missing it. Theology unapplied and without purpose is simply that. Intellectualizing God into something that is studied instead of Someone who is followed and worshiped is part of the reason we see the church decreasing in America.

Again... Theology in the right biblical context is a beautiful thing. Out of context , it's a dangerous thing.

For instance, in Paul's letters to Timothy, he desired that Timothy know the scriptures. Why ? The work that Timothy was about to undertake made it absolutely necessary.
 

Yuccaman

New member
Jul 10, 2019
15
17
3
North Alabama
Knowledge and understanding is a great asset, but if one cannot teach that knowledge and understanding to one's audience, where is the benefit?
I applaud all who have the intellect and opportunity to go to collage or seminary, but far to many that I have met completely fail when it comes to teaching the average church member.
I concur... Not all , but a lot of what far too many seminaries produce look like they've been slapped with a wet squirrel if someone asks them to share their faith. That's been my experience.