Grace: A License to Sin (FALSE!)

[popeye]

I think then that you can appreciate this, Willie-T.

Last week I was "volunteered" by my new church to do a scripture memorization in front of the congregation for this morning. I was rather nervous as #1: I'm not very familiar yet with the folks there #2. I'm not the most gifted speaker #3. I'm quite introverted and don't like being the center of attention. In short, my heart was willing but my flesh was weak.

So this morning my hands were sweaty and my heart was beating a little faster before church service and I began to pray for the Lord to help me. I started to get myself psyched up and gave myself a pep talk and grew quite confident.

But when I realized what I was doing, that I was trying to accomplish something in my own strength, I had a change of heart. "Lord, I need You! I want You to do this thing through me in spite of my fear. I don't wanna be strong, I want YOU to be strong! I want You to be glorified in my weakness!!!"

Guess what? I couldn't stop the joy in my heart from gushing over as I walked up to the front of the church with sweaty palms & butterflies in my stomach and my heart racing. I stood in front of the mic and looked out and saw only my son's face smiling over the sea of other faces. And I joyfully submitted to the Holy Spirit as He helped me to quote a scripture from the book of Isaiah to the church.

What joy to know that Jesus accomplished His will through me and how faithful He proves Himself to me. I'm so glad I could never tell that story and say that I obeyed. The truth it, Jesus glorified Himself and was strong in my weakness. What I could not do, the Lord did through me.

Hallelujah! \/

BTW,What was the verse?

 

[Rosesrock]

Not only that, but he has caused them to live in fear and doubt all their lives (something Jesus commanded us NOT to do), never knowing, from minute to minute, if they are sons, or if they are outcasts. It's almost as though they have to consult a chart to see if they happen to belong to God today, or not.... and then they have to make sure they hang their head low enough and look sorrowful and pitifull enough to convince Him to consider saving them again.

My chart was lost in the mail and the customer service guy said to go to loss-o-sin.com I think I'm good for today.

 

[Sirk]

But that is saddenly not what we see happen, though. We have people claim they will never be able to stop sinning. That is making an excuse some time in the future to sin because you believe you are not righteous or you have a fallen nature. Most in OSAS believe they sin in the flesh, but yet their sins are forgiven them in the spirit. So nobody in the OSAS camp believes in sinless perfectionism. However, denying that you cannot stop sinning is indeed saying that you have a license to sin. For if an alcoholic said he will forever be an alcoholic even though he tries to stop, he is guilty because he does not really believe he can stop. His efforts of saying that he does try to stop are hindered because he has already defeated himself by saying he can't stop. The same would hold true for a murderer, a thief, or an idolater.

Anyways, check out Post #25 and listen to some of the testimonies of those who did the wrong thing because of OSAS.

Saddenly? That's an interesting word. You can always tell when Jason isn't copy and pasting. Kinda like someone we know and their TelePrompTer.

 

[Utah]

Firstly I would point out that no one has the ability to believe unless God brings home to them the truth and impels them to do so. What man is prevents it. Just look at your own experience. Why did you come to believe? Do you think that God could not do the same with anyone? Of course He could. Men come to believe because it is God's will, and because God convinces them

Secondly your problem is that you have only one eye open. The question is not one of God failing, but of the IMPOSSIBILITY of all being saved. If God desires all men to be saved and yet all are not saved there must be a reason for it. And that reason is not man's freewill for two reasons. 1) that sinful man of his own freewill will NEVER seek God with any good intent. 2). God could overrule man's freewill by using selfish motives. Or He could do it by overwhelming them. He had no problem with making Paul believe. He gave him no choice. As Paul says, 'who has resisted His will?'

Thus the assumption must be that there is something of which we are unaware that prevents God from saving all. He Who knows all things clearly knows that if all were saved it would have drastic consequences. Thus He limits the number of those who are saved. And He knew that it would be so from the beginning.

God knew from the beginning who would be lost. Why did He not then ensure that they were not born?. Then they would not have been lost.

If God leaves our salvation to our own freewill, He is not perfect, He is simply incompetent. For He knows that if He did so we would all be lost. In all that matters I do not let my child have his own way. I make sure he does my will. And God is no different. Those will be saved whom He chose in Christ Jesus before the world began.

God has a desire that all be saved. but it is a general desire that is impossible of accomplishment for reasons we do not know.

You can side with Ricky LOl I will side with God.

I addressed you with respect and merely tried to gain understanding yet you responded with elitist arrogance. I thought you sided with God. If so, where's your love?

You definitely have a delicate ego, and at 81 years of age, that's horrifyingly sad.

Me? I'm not about ego, I'm about seeking Truth. You on the other hand do a great deal of assuming; back your assumptions up with Scripture, because seriously, what you've shared is preposterous, especially the bold lettering.

For now, you get my vote for sharing the dumbest post of the year. Thank you. I always enjoy having a great laugh at some arrogant elitist's expense.

 

[Utah]

I want to go to camp, is there a pool, or at least a pond??

The pool is for those without sin.

Alcoholics and ax murderers get the pond with leeches and snapping turtles.

 

[Utah]

Saddenly? That's an interesting word. You can always tell when Jason isn't copy and pasting. Kinda like someone we know and their TelePrompTer . . .

With all the differentiating colors.

 

[Willie-T]

BenFTW, So many people insist that our Christian life is supposed to be such a miserable trial that any joy is considered "tickling of the ears" ?? I heard a preacher say it this way, "It's the too good to be true good news that IS true!"

Look at me! I'm a Christian..... can't you see how miserable I am? That's proof, positive!

 

[Rosesrock]

The pool is for those without sin.

Alcoholics and ax murderers get the pond with leeches and snapping turtles.

so the splash pad is for the in between....how on I have to refer to my chart.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, just stop.

Sorry, I will not stop in proclaiming the truth of God's Word.
In fact, I am willing to die for what I believe and I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Time after time people here have proven what you espouse is nothing but work-based salvation heresy. No different from Catholicism or any other cult out there.

Jesus said, why do call me Lord, Lord, if you do not what I say?

You trot out the same stuff like a broken record, even though it's been dealt with a hundred times over.

God's Word will not return unto Him void (Isaiah 55:11); And he that has ears to hear let him hear.

just start yet another "work hard or God will get rid of you" thread, or simply ignore sound doctrine/instruction so as to keep people under bondage to the Law. You have brought a curse upon yourself, as you attempt to get others cursed:

It is written,

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:19-22).

"All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse, for it is written; ' cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the Law.' Clearly, no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous will live by faith." (Galatians 3:10,11)

This is talking about the Law of Moses which was fulfilled by Christ's death upon the cross (Hebrews 8:13). For if you were to read Galatians 2, you would see that circumcision is mentioned. This let's us know it is talking about the Law of Moses and not the Commands in the New Testament. In other words, this is not talking about the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), or the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), or the Royal Law (James 2:8), or the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27). For Jesus said if you love Him, you will keep his commandments.

You trample the grace of Christ underfoot by your insistence that strict obedience is required to keep oneself in God's family.

You allude to a verse that actually refutes what you believe.

"Trodden under foot." Let's see what the Bible says about those words.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31).

In other words, if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. For just as those who despised the Law of Moses died, how much more should it be for those who trodden underfoot the Son of God?

Still not convinced?

Let's keep reading in Hebrews 10

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38).

The Bible cannot be clearer: "Christ is the end of the Law." (Romans 10:4)

This is again in reference to the Law of Moses (And not the New Testament Commands). For Hebrews 9-11 is dealing Israel. For the Law is a schoolmaster that brings us unto Christ. Also, the Scriptures say, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," (1 Timothy 1:9).

Also, when you read Romans 10, you also have to read Romans 11, too. For it says,

"For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

Get off your self-righteous throne.

Jesus said,

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

"And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil." (Ephesians 4:23-27).

 

[Jason0047]

I can imagine this scenario if one spoke to you face-to-face:

This is just false slander.

Lost person: "How do I get saved?"

Jason: "Repent, and then you must work hard to keep your salvation."

And the reality of how this scenario would play out.

Lost Person: "How do I get saved?"

Me: "Admit you are a sinner, ask the Lord to forgive you of your sins, and accept Christ as your Savior and you will be saved by the fact that Christ will then live in you. Then from there if you want to abide in the Lord, He is going to do good fruit thru your life. So if you sin again, you must then confess and forsake that sin (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:6-7, 1 John 2:4 and Proverbs 28:13). For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil in your life."

Lost Person: "What if I continue to commit sins?"

Jason: "Then you were never saved. Saved people don't sin."

Lost Person: "What if I continue to commit sins?"

Me: "If you repented of your sin and accepted the Lord and you later sin and refuse to confess and forsake that sin, then the Lord will leave you and you will need to renew your faith back in him for having backslidden into sin. In other words, the Lord can draw you back to Him if you backslide into sin, but do not think that you can just repent at the last second before you die on your deathbed while planning to live your whole in sin, though. It doesn't work like that. Those who are born again spiritually will want to please God, but yet they also have free will and it is still their choice if they want to serve God or not every day. For Joshua said, choose this day in whom ye will serve; And Jesus said you cannot serve two masters."

Lost Person: "Do you still sin?"

Jason: "Did you not hear me?"

Lost person: "Do you still sin?"

Me: "I do not abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death. However, I am working on being a slave to righteousness. This is a process that one can learn by putting forth various different teachings on how to stop sinning as taught in God's Word.

Lost Person: "What is God's love based on?"

Jason: "Works"

Lost Person: "What is God's love based on?"

Me: "Well, God is the very embodiment of love. For God is love (1 John 4:8). So if God lives in you, then His love will flow thru your life.

Lost Person: "I must work to keep God's love?"

Jason: "Well, do you think God's gonna love you if you keep disobeying Him?"

Lost Person: "I must work to keep God's love?"

Me: "It's not you but Christ working in you. He is the One that will do the work of love in your life." "Surrender your life to Christ and study the Word and He will lead you into paths of righteousness for His namesake."

Lost Person: "So, after salvation, it's pretty much up to me to stay saved, right?"

Jason: "What part of 'works' don't you understand?"

Lost Person: So, after salvation, it's pretty much up to me to stay saved, right?"

Me: "No. The Lord can keep us from falling. The Lord can also lead us out of temptation. Also, if we truly love the Lord and desire to be with Him, He will never leave us nor forsake us." The Lord is good and faithful and He will save His people from their sins."

 

[BradC]

Sorry, I will not stop in proclaiming the truth of God's Word.
In fact, I am willing to die for what I believe and I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.



Jesus said, why do call me Lord, Lord, if you do not what I say?



God's Word will not return unto Him void (Isaiah 55:11); And he that has ears to hear let him hear.



It is written,

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:19-22).



This is talking about the Law of Moses which was fulfilled by Christ's death upon the cross (Hebrews 8:13). For if you were to read Galatians 2, you would see that circumcision is mentioned. This let's us know it is talking about the Law of Moses and not the Commands in the New Testament. In other words, this is not talking about the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), or the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), or the Royal Law (James 2:8), or the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27). For Jesus said if you love Him, you will keep his commandments.



You allude to a verse that actually refutes what you believe.

"Trodden under foot." Let's see what the Bible says about those words.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31).

In other words, if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. For just as those who despised the Law of Moses died, how much more should it be for those who trodden underfoot the Son of God?

Still not convinced?

Let's keep reading in Hebrews 10

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38).



This is again in reference to the Law of Moses (And not the New Testament Commands). For Hebrews 9-11 is dealing Israel. For the Law is a schoolmaster that brings us unto Christ. Also, the Scriptures say, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," (1 Timothy 1:9).

Also, when you read Romans 10, you also have to read Romans 11, too. For it says,

"For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).



Jesus said,

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

"And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil." (Ephesians 4:23-27).

.

Jason, you are the one who is always telling others about not taking things out of context and you are doing it with Hebrews 10 willingly. Heb 10 is speaking to those who would not leave the OT sacrifices for sin and turn to the once and for all sacrifice of (Heb 10:10-12). This once and for all sacrifice for sins, through the offering of the body of Christ, is the one that is being referred to in (v. 26) as the knowledge of the truth. Those who would not leave the OT offering of sins, which were offered every year, if they sinned willfully, there would be no more sacrifice for sins. They would not be able to trust in those yearly sacrifices made by the priest, for those sacrifices could never take away sins (v.11).

They could only be perfected forever through that once and for all sacrifice (v.14). If they sinned willfully, only the offering of the body of Christ would be able to sanctify and perfect them once and for all. There sins would be remitted and there would be no more offering for sin (v.18). Many of the Jews had a problem with this offering that was made by the Lamb of God and would not turn from the old unto the new to be sanctified and made whole. They could only enter into the holiest by the blood of Christ. Sin was not the issue, it was the blood and the sacrifice of Christ that was the issue and they had to turn all the way unto that sacrifice and submit by faith unto the knowledge of that truth which was consecrated for them as a new and living way (v.20).

 

[VioletReigns]

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins..."

If you interpret the above scripture to mean that by a man’s willful disobedience, Christ’ Atonement has been made of no effect, you are totally insane! No man can change what the Lord has done: Jesus Christ our Messiah has paid for the sins of the whole world. Nobody will ever thwart God’s plan and purpose.

That scripture means in your own carnal mind you choose to believe there remains no more sacrifice because you willfully disobeyed after you came to Christ the Savior. It’s saying that even though you are eternally saved by grace, your guilty conscience (carnal mind) makes you believe you got lost again. In other words, when you deliberately ignore God’s instructions, you believe the lie that He disowned you. Because the flesh (carnal mind, intellect) can’t comprehend God. So if you listen to your flesh, your flesh tells you Jesus’ Atonement was ineffective. Nevertheless, that is a lie.

"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31).

These scriptures explain the mindset of a person who thinks they are under the law. If a child of God willfully disobeys and begins again to trust his flesh (carnal mind, intellect), he takes on the mindset of condemned sinner. His mind tells him he has "fallen from grace" and is doomed to be hit with the fiery judgment of God, because that’s what the holy law says, right? “It’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God!” Right?

Are you insane? Don’t you remember how you first came to Jesus Christ in faith and realized Calvary covered it all and you were set free indeed because of His Atonement? Don’t you remember how happy and peaceful you became when you realized the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ the Living Lord dwelled in YOU?

These scriptures are telling you that a child of God can be tricked and deceived that he’s lost again if he starts to believe his carnal mind (intellect). When we get restless and try to struggle out of God's grasp, we start to trust our own flesh (carnal mind, intellect), and feel like we're on our own and that God changed His mind and abandoned us.

But even still, when we are faithless, Jesus remains faithful because He can't change Who He is or what He has done. The only thing that has changed is our mindset. So what these scriptures are telling us is that there's the danger of our carnal mind trying to put us into bondage again that we can lose our salvation. WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CHANGE GOD'S MIND.

 

[Utah]

Saddenly? That's an interesting word. You can always tell when Jason isn't copy and pasting. Kinda like someone we know and their TelePrompTer.

Speaking of teleprompters, I haven't seen that "bottle of sunshine" in a week or two.

 

[KennethC]

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins..."

If you interpret the above scripture to mean that by a man’s willful disobedience, Christ’ Atonement has been made of no effect, you are totally insane! No man can change what the Lord has done: Jesus Christ our Messiah has paid for the sins of the whole world. Nobody will ever thwart God’s plan and purpose.

That scripture means in your own carnal mind you choose to believe there remains no more sacrifice because you willfully disobeyed after you came to Christ the Savior. It’s saying that even though you are eternally saved by grace, your guilty conscience (carnal mind) makes you believe you got lost again. In other words, when you deliberately ignore God’s instructions, you believe the lie that He disowned you. Because the flesh (carnal mind, intellect) can’t comprehend God. So if you listen to your flesh, your flesh tells you Jesus’ Atonement was ineffective. Nevertheless, that is a lie.

"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31).

These scriptures explain the mindset of a person who thinks they are under the law. If a child of God willfully disobeys and begins again to trust his flesh (carnal mind, intellect), he takes on the mindset of condemned sinner. His mind tells him he has "fallen from grace" and is doomed to be hit with the fiery judgment of God, because that’s what the holy law says, right? “It’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God!” Right?

Are you insane? Don’t you remember how you first came to Jesus Christ in faith and realized Calvary covered it all and you were set free indeed because of His Atonement? Don’t you remember how happy and peaceful you became when you realized the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ the Living Lord dwelled in YOU?

These scriptures are telling you that a child of God can be tricked and deceived that he’s lost again if he starts to believe his carnal mind (intellect). When we get restless and try to struggle out of God's grasp, we start to trust our own flesh (carnal mind, intellect), and feel like we're on our own and that God changed His mind and abandoned us.

But even still, when we are faithless, Jesus remains faithful because He can't change Who He is or what He has done. The only thing that has changed is our mindset. So what these scriptures are telling us is that there's the danger of our carnal mind trying to put us into bondage again that we can lose our salvation. WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CHANGE GOD'S MIND.

Sorry but I do not agree because the Lord teaches on the disobedient servant in Luke 12:42-48;

[h=1]Luke 12:42-48[/h]42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his Master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season?43 Blessed is that servant whom his Master will find so doing when he comes.44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.

45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My Master is delaying His coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the Master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for Him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

47 And that servant who knew his Master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.


The disobedient servant will face worse punishment then the unbeliever !!!

 

[ember]

Frankly, I think better time would be spent in trying to determine which end of the sphagetti noodle is the head and the other end the tail

 

[ladylynn]

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[TD="width: 100%, align: left"] Romans 4:13
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. [/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] God promised that you would be the heir of the world. It is the same promise that He made to Abraham. And because you are Christ’s, you are Abraham’s seed and an heir “according to the promise”. (Galatians 3:29)

When God made this promise to you, He made it so easy for you to receive—“through the righteousness of faith”. All you have to do is believe that as the heir of the world every blessing is righteously yours because Jesus died to give them to you. He also rose from the dead to enforce them in your life.

So don’t try to earn your blessings “through the law”—through your efforts or performance. Freely receive what God freely gives to you through Christ and His finished work at the cross.

When a church member was retrenched at 41 years of age, he refused to fret or think that he had to jostle with the rest of the people in the job market. Instead, he believed that by God’s grace, he would get a better job with a higher pay. Indeed, through a mutual acquaintance, a new job came along with a pay packet that was 60 per cent more than his previous one!

Another man was experiencing a strained relationship with his wife to the point that divorce was imminent. When he started attending our church, he realized that a happy marriage could be his, not by his trying to keep the marriage going or earning the love of his wife, but by believing that although he could see his own weaknesses, he was still the righteousness of God in Christ because of the blood of Jesus. Today, he and his wife are reconciled, and enjoying a blessed marriage.

Don’t let the devil disqualify you by bringing you the law and saying, “How can you receive this blessing when just last night, you broke God’s law?” or “Are you sure you deserve this?” Instead, say, “Father, I thank You that I receive everything freely by Your grace, Your unmerited favor in my life, because of the blood of Jesus!”





VioletReigns, I very much agree with what you posted. We walk by faith and not by sight.
The Good Shepherd is the One who keeps us. The battle is in our minds and the enemy knows if he can get us to look at our own performance and goodness., he has us. We fail every day but when we know Jesus has taken the punishment for each and every sin, each foolish move., it gives us the liberty to do better next time and to grow in Him. I have found the Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness not sin. I'm always shown what I am IN Christ and that is what allows me to be more like Him. Not my failures but His righteousness. We change from glory to glory each day and it is not something we can boast about because it is because of Jesus that we are able to change. Grace teaches us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts., to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present age.... It goes against human reason!! Look to Jesus and change... What a plan. And all the glory always goes to Jesus.


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[VioletReigns]

I think you make the best claim of all, Sister Ember. Going over & over the same ground with the same ol' worn-out arguments is insanity. As the guy in this video says, "It's just... ABNORMAL!" ROFL!!

[video=youtube;1bxGMB9YCsc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bxGMB9YCsc[/video]

 

[Jason0047]

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins..."

If you interpret the above scripture to mean that by a man’s willful disobedience, Christ’ Atonement has been made of no effect, you are totally insane! No man can change what the Lord has done: Jesus Christ our Messiah has paid for the sins of the whole world. Nobody will ever thwart God’s plan and purpose.

That scripture means in your own carnal mind you choose to believe there remains no more sacrifice because you willfully disobeyed after you came to Christ the Savior. It’s saying that even though you are eternally saved by grace, your guilty conscience (carnal mind) makes you believe you got lost again.

Where in Hebrews 10 does it even hint at such a thing?

For be honest with yourself. Did you seek to find another alternative to what the text plainly says or did you try and find out what the text is really saying with no biased belief?

 

[Jason0047]

Hebrews 10 is clear. If you willfullly sin after you receive the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sins. It talks about the breaking of the Old Covenant and relates it to the breaking of the New Covenant and how if one were to do so, they would be trodding under foot the Son of God. Nowhere is this described as a hypothetical scenario or as somebody thinking the wrong way.

Besides, Hebrews 10 is not the only passage in the Bible that talks from a Conditional perspective. There are many passages in the New Testament that lets us know that salvation is Conditional (Which is a cooperation between God and the believer). For God does not force salvation upon people.

 

[ladylynn]

You are free from the penalties of sin. What you are not necessarily free from are the consequences of sin. Thus David lost his child, and David's adultery and murder resulted in his sons copying him.

God's forgiveness in the OT was based on the cross. Thus it was equally efficacious. But sin does have consequences.



This is of course folly. Nevertheless it might still have some consequences. Any sin we commit is like a ripple that continues on and on, even when it is forgiven. That is why sin is so dangerous. God does not always choose to stop the ripple.



Certainly so from an eternal point of view. But not necessarily temporarily. Whom the LORD loves He chastens. An the consequences are often our chastening.



For which reason He may well chasten you.



True but Christ died 'for sins done aforetime' (Rom 3.25). Thus OT atonement was just as efficacious.



It is not a question of punishment but of chastening. He chastens in love. The verse does not really mean that God will not remember them. God remembers EVERYTHING. It means that He will act towards us as though He had forgotten them. But He does have our wellbeing in mind. And He does allow the consequences of sin to go on. Thus someone's laxity in sexual matters may have consequences of example which affects others.




But do recognise that He may be chastening you for your good. Otherwise much of life is inexplicable. Therefore let the consequences of your sins turn your hearts towards God so that you may learn from them. And thank Him for it.

Valiant., I hear what you are saying about Romans 3:25 There also was a major change from the old covenant to the new covenant. The old testament saints did not have the Holy Spirit. They were still under law and had to continue making the sacrifices to atone for their sins. We do not have to do that today. Yes, Jesus atonement was made for ALL sins past present and future. All sin is paid for the same way but the covenants were different. I'm soo glad we do not live under the old covenant!! I never knew there was much difference from the old to the new and therefore I didn't know the promises that were mine as a new covenant believer either.

Consider the differences. The saints of old longed to have what we have today. Yet many of us live as old covenant believers when we are IN the new covenant of grace.

Consider the differences:

Under the old covenant of law vs the new covenant of grace.
OLD-God demanded righteousness from man. NEW-God imparts righteousness to man through the finished work of Jesus. Rom.4:5-7 OLD-God will visit your sins to the 3rd 4th generations. Ex.20:5 NEW-God will by no means remember your sins. Heb. 8:12;10:17

OLD- The children of Israel were blessed only if they obeyed God's commandments perfectly inwardly and outwardly Duet.28:13-14 NEW-Beleivers don't have to depend on their self-efforts to receive God's blessings, because Jesus fullfilled every one of the requirements of the law on their behalf. Col. 2:14
OLD-
They were cursed of they did not obey God's commandments perfectly Duet.28:15-16,18,20
NEW- Believers can enjoy God's blessings and undeserved favor because Christ became a curse for them on the cross. Gal.3:13

OLD- Depending on self-effort produces behavior modification without heart transformation. NEW- Beholding the loveliness of Jesus and His finished work brings about inner transformation, which produces good works that are motivated by God's love. 2 Cor.3:18

OLD-The blood sacrifices of animals covered the sins of the children of Israel for only one year, and the process had to be repeated every year Heb.10:3
NEW- The blood of Jesus has removed the sins--past,present and future of believers completely and perfectly, once and for all. Heb.10:11-12

OLD-Obeying the law could not and did not give the children of Israel the power to stop sin in their lives. The law has no power to make anyone holy, just and good. NEW-Sin has no dominion over believers Rom.6:14 as the power of Jesus to overcome temptation kicks in when they are conscience that they are righteous in Christ apart from their works Rom. 4:6

OLD- The children of Israel were robbed of their confidence in the goodness of God because they were always looking at themselves to see how well or poorly they performed (i.e. self-conscience) NEW-Believers can have a tremendous sense of confidence and security in Christ because they are now looking to Jesus and not themselves (i.e. Christ-conscience)

OLD-The Children of Israel could not have an intimate relationship with God because their unrighteousness put distance between them and God. NEW-Beleivers can enjoy close,intimate relationship with God as their Father because they are made righteous by faith in Jesus.
2 Cor.5:17; Rom.5:7-9 Heb.10:10

OLD-The Children of Israel could not enter the holy of holies (where the presence of God was) Only the high priest could, ant that only once a year, on the Day of Atonement. Lev.16:2, 14 NEW-Not only can believers enter God's holy presence, they can also come boldly to His throne of grace in their time of need because Jesus perfect atonement. Heb.4:16

OLD-The children of Israel were under the ministry of death. 2 Cor. 3:17
NEW- Believers are under the ministry of Jesus' abundant life. 2 Cor.3:6; John 10:10



As I look at these major differences it's amazing to realize how blessed we are today to be under the new covenant. How many Christians realize this difference? I encourage you to read the verses ( I copied this by hand so it would have taken really long to go to each vs as well.)
Be blessed!