Grace alone or grace plus works?

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 2:3 - Now by this we know that we know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. What does the Greek word "tereo" for "keep" mean?

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

John is so simple and so loving, yet people do not understand him..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith without works is no faith at all. You may as well bury your talent in the dirt where it becomes useless and soiled. When it come time to show what you have done with your gift yo will be considered a worthless servant and cast out into the darkeness wehre there will be weekping and gnashing of teeth.

Invest at leat....... if not start your own works business and increase your gift in others...spread the faith.

Otherwise you do not really have faith, simply an idle boast, false pride...

No one claims faith apart from works was ever faith. Again the only people who keep insisting it are those who are attacking the grace through faith only crowd.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sometimes when we post and it makes all sc riptural sense fromt he Lord there are quick and obscene protests in the wind. Do not be carried away, it is just a gust, not the Holy Spirit.

Faith without works is no faith at all. You may as well bury your talent in the dirt where it becomes useless and soiled. When it come time to show what you have done with your gift yo will be considered a worthless servant and cast out into the darkeness wehre there will be weekping and gnashing of teeth.

Invest at leat....... if not start your own works business and increase your gift in others...spread the faith.

Otherwise you do not really have faith, simply an idle boast, false pride...

 

[LoveGodForever]

1 John 2:3 - Now by this we know that we know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. What does the Greek word "tereo" for "keep" mean?

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Amazing, and these scriptures you quote, do they not speak to you? You do know the scriptures include God's 4th commandment that you ignore to follow the teachings and traditions of men as it is written.........

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[mailmandan]

Faith without works is no faith at all. You may as well bury your talent in the dirt where it becomes useless and soiled. When it come time to show what you have done with your gift yo will be considered a worthless servant and cast out into the darkeness wehre there will be weekping and gnashing of teeth.

Invest at leat....... if not start your own works business and increase your gift in others...spread the faith.

Otherwise you do not really have faith, simply an idle boast, false pride...

The talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a "hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed." This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews are called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

 

[JaumeJ]

Read and understand the Word of God...

The talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a "hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed." This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews are called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

 

[mailmandan]

Read and understand the Word of God...

I just did. What did you not understand?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read and understand the Word of God...

That is two posts this “accuser” has written in a row where he can not refute someone instead he attacks them. His pride is deep.

I made a post a minute ago but deleted it, it is not worth it anymore.

A person who thinks he is right will never repent no matter what anyone does. Only God can change him

 

[JaumeJ]

How you get everything so confused? You do not know the walls of the New Jerusalem...........made up of the aints.........the street of gold so pure it is like glass and it can be seen as clear.........our faith is as gold........ have your read any of this? oH, RIGHT, YOU ONLY can read teh New Testament, the covenant that is made quite clear in what is called the Old Testament, since it was given first to Abraham, it being the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where we are also taught Jesus will be kown as the Father, the Son and the HOly Spirit and God with us. Tell me what you have learned you very wise man...

So far I hear primarily the traditions of men since Paul being passed on by your sharing here, but nothing from the Holy Spirit, so by all means let me know exactly what God puts gold akin to, since He has no need of what people call wealth. What is wealth to God?

I just did. What did you not understand?

 

[gb9]

How you get everything so confused? You do not know the walls of the New Jerusalem...........made up of the aints.........the street of gold so pure it is like glass and it can be seen as clear.........our faith is as gold........ have your read any of this? oH, RIGHT, YOU ONLY can read teh New Testament, the covenant that is made quite clear in what is called the Old Testament, since it was given first to Abraham, it being the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where we are also taught Jesus will be kown as the Father, the Son and the HOly Spirit and God with us. Tell me what you have learned you very wise man...

So far I hear primarily the traditions of men since Paul being passed on by your sharing here, but nothing from the Holy Spirit, so by all means let me know exactly what God puts gold akin to, since He has no need of what people call wealth. What is wealth to God?

do you think it is the Holt Sprit that told you that " real understanding Christians do not need to read Paul's letters." because I can assure you , it was not.

 

[mailmandan]

How you get everything so confused? You do not know the walls of the New Jerusalem...........made up of the aints.........the street of gold so pure it is like glass and it can be seen as clear.........our faith is as gold........ have your read any of this? oH, RIGHT, YOU ONLY can read teh New Testament, the covenant that is made quite clear in what is called the Old Testament, since it was given first to Abraham, it being the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where we are also taught Jesus will be kown as the Father, the Son and the HOly Spirit and God with us. Tell me what you have learned you very wise man...

So far I hear primarily the traditions of men since Paul being passed on by your sharing here, but nothing from the Holy Spirit, so by all means let me know exactly what God puts gold akin to, since He has no need of what people call wealth. What is wealth to God?

What in the world are you ranting about?

Are you referring to the entire Old Testament as the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Are you denying the Trinity? Why the constant "traditions of men" accusations?

 

[JaumeJ]

I see the gang is all here, but the truth is I cannot hear you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see the gang is all here, but the truth is I cannot hear you.

Is it us you can not hear. Or is it God speaking through us?

You take things to personal man. Some people just want to help you see what they see. And all you do is attack. Its a shame.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 11:6-8
[FONT=&quot]6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.[/FONT]

 

[DJ2]

How you get everything so confused? You do not know the walls of the New Jerusalem...........made up of the aints.........the street of gold so pure it is like glass and it can be seen as clear.........our faith is as gold........ have your read any of this? oH, RIGHT, YOU ONLY can read teh New Testament, the covenant that is made quite clear in what is called the Old Testament, since it was given first to Abraham, it being the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where we are also taught Jesus will be kown as the Father, the Son and the HOly Spirit and God with us. Tell me what you have learned you very wise man...

So far I hear primarily the traditions of men since Paul being passed on by your sharing here, but nothing from the Holy Spirit, so by all means let me know exactly what God puts gold akin to, since He has no need of what people call wealth. What is wealth to God?

I too am at a lost to grasp what you are trying to convey. If your message is one of a esoteric nature please state this in advance.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is nothing esoteric in my reply to the post cited. It is simply a frew references from one who has been reading theWord for a half century, who does not claim to know all, yet wishes to relate a few poignant, fromthe Holy Spirit references to one who said he has just read teh Word and asks me what I would like to know...that is all. Of course you do not get it, it is in response to a different person, not intended to be understood by all, least of all th one boasting his perfect knowledge of the Word from having Just read it..... God bless you, and know I believe all who are saved are saved by the Blood of the Lam b of God, nothign more, nothing less..

I too am at a lost to grasp what you are trying to convey. If your message is one of a esoteric nature please state this in advance.

 

[JaumeJ]

What are the walls of the New Jerusalem composed of for starters...? Sorry, id yo do not know, study is needed......and so it goes with the other refernces...

Also, and again, the response is only to the one who has just read teh Word and has all to explain, to all of us. If you do not understand..I am afraid you will need to pray on it........ Eyes and ears you know.

 

[DJ2]

There is nothing esoteric in my reply to the post cited. It is simply a frew references from one who has been reading theWord for a half century, who does not claim to know all, yet wishes to relate a few poignant, fromthe Holy Spirit references to one who said he has just read teh Word and asks me what I would like to know...that is all. Of course you do not get it, it is in response to a different person, not intended to be understood by all, least of all th one boasting his perfect knowledge of the Word from having Just read it..... God bless you, and know I believe all who are saved are saved by the Blood of the Lam b of God, nothign more, nothing less..

Phrases such as

You do not know the walls of the New Jerusalem...........made up of the aints.........the street of gold so pure it is like glass and it can be seen as clear.........our faith is as gold........

sound very esoteric. Unless you can point to a biblical passage to support this phrase I am inclined to think it is esoteric.

 

[JaumeJ]

Again this is in response to a remark and invitation by an individual. Any who have read all of the Word know about the walls of New Jerusalem, the foundations and more........they also know theother brief refereences....... actually the words are quite plain to any Bible student-------

Phrases such as
sound very esoteric. Unless you can point to a biblical passage to support this phrase I am inclined to think it is esoteric.

 

[Studyman]

The talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). *Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.

I love these scriptures, but they are Parables. They were not created to destroy God's Word, or annul any part of God's Word.

The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress.

This is true. And by ones fruit we shall know if they are true believers, or if they just worship Jesus in Vain.

This probably represents the biggest disagreement I have with Mainstream preachers of our time. "True Believers" will bring forth righteous fruits through the power of the Holy Spirit.

As it is written, there is no sin in Christ, nor His Spirit. This is why Jesus inspired it to be written;

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


The scriptures you posted do not contradict these. We are all given His Word, (talents) what do we do with them? Hide them in the world and forget them? Or show them to others that more might come to the Master.

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

This represents God's Word, the Good news of the Gospel.

These "MANY" in Matt. 7 were also given God's Word,(Talents) just like us all. But their fruit exposed their rejection (burying) of God's Goods (His Word)

These "many" brought forth Works as it is written. They probably created statues and images of Him in the likeness of man. They probably created great feasts and high days to honor this image they created. built great churches, went on great missions all in His name. But their "fruits" were "unlawful works" and Jesus rejected them for producing these fruits.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a "hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed." This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews are called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

I find this statement from you amazing and a true representation of the scripture.

I once heard a self proclaimed "believer" preach that God created commandments impossible to follow, then killed thousands of people who refused to follow it. He preached that this God of the Old Testament was a strict God which no mercy or Grace and basically taught that Jesus had to come back and eliminate His Commandments because they were unfair, unjust, and unholy, and create different ones which were righteous, holy and good in their eyes.

Do you believe this accurately depicts the "true knowledge of the master".

Jesus doesn't give us money to live by. He said:

"Man shall not live by "bread" alone, but by EVERY WORD that comes from God.

And His Word is not grievous as "Many" preach.