Grappling With Why God Allows Evil To Continue

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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#281
Nov 12, 2015
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Magenta said:
Which is why I said, I said no such thing. It is called clarifying for you so you know that is not what I said at all, nor what I meant, and in fact I do not believe I said anything even approximating "God made man to be against the Spirit." The conversation was about Adam being created as an earthly being, and the fact that flesh has a natural inclination to be in opposition to God. In the garden, man could have chosen to eat of the Tree of Life, a "type" Christ, and forever put that inclination away, but God already knew man would not. The potential for evil was actualized, and became a reality for us, for we inherited Adam's sin nature after the fall, immutable but for the cross of Christ, though in his life, evil abounds and sin has affected every area and level of man's life, which is why we look forward to the world to come, when we shall be as we were meant to be, in fellowship with God, with the sin nature of the flesh put away for good.
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Okay, okay, it's good.
Have a happy mothers day. :)
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#282
Aug 17, 2015
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Stunnedbygrace said:
Ah, yes, I see that you and HRFTD don't like the translation. I never knew there was any controversy over the verse. (I don't get out much.)

I guess I had no struggle with it because I saw it as showing the attribute of foreknowledge. So I saw it as saying the cross and the Lamb slain on it was planned from the foundation of the world.

But I think you both are okay with saying it was Gods plan from the foundation of the world that the Lamb would be slain...?
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The Greek does not have a strict word order in a sentence as English does. So many Greek verses, when translated with words in the same order, can have specific meaning in English that was not intended in Greek.

I think this is the case here. Yes, I think that before the foundation of the world, God planned everything what happened, is happening and will happen. But the verse specifically is about our names written before the foundation of the world, IMHO.
To say that Jesus was slain before the world seems like a strange teaching, to me.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#283
Jul 3, 2015
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#283
Stunnedbygrace said:
Okay, okay, it's good.
Have a happy mothers day. :)
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Heh, I deleted my post to make a small correction, (I dislike that edit note after a minute) so now you have responded to something that is not even on the board any more :eek:

Thanks, Stunned. Happy mother's day to you, too :)​
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#284
Jul 3, 2015
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Stunnedbygrace said:
My "like" option was disappeared for a while, don't know why. I have to go so will have to "like" many posts and/or rep later on when I return.

Happy mothers day all. Love and bear with one another. :)
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The like option does not appear for posts that were made during the time you are composing your reply to a message, so when you post your message, the ability to like appears for the message you are replying to, and again for any message that appears right after your post, but not for the posts put on the board in the interim. Refreshing the page fixes that.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#287
Nov 12, 2015
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Magenta said:
The like option does not appear for posts that were made during the time you are composing your reply to a message, so when you post your message, the ability to like appears for the message you are replying to, and again for any message that appears right after your post, but not for the posts put on the board in the interim. Refreshing the page fixes that.
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Sometimes, hitting refresh doesn't fix it for me, sometimes it does, skippy. :D
Right now, EG is saying, why are you complaining? She calls ME butthead...!:D
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#288
Nov 12, 2015
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#288
By the way, where is our purple treat for mothers day? Did you forget about us...??
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#289
Nov 12, 2015
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trofimus said:
The Greek does not have a strict word order in a sentence as English does. So many Greek verses, when translated with words in the same order, can have specific meaning in English that was not intended in Greek.

I think this is the case here. Yes, I think that before the foundation of the world, God planned everything what happened, is happening and will happen. But the verse specifically is about our names written before the foundation of the world, IMHO.
To say that Jesus was slain before the world seems like a strange teaching, to me.
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Yes, I see your point. My personal take away from my translation was that it was both - the cross was the plan from the foundation and my name was recorded from the foundation, but both only because of God being able to say the end from the beginning because He SEES the end of all things. By the way, my translation is The Bible For Dummies.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#290
Jul 3, 2015
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Stunnedbygrace said:
I meant it in a lighthearted way.
If I wanted to offend, I would have said: settle down there, Jif. But Skippy if far superior to Jif. :D
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Calling someone skippy is derogatory. Not getting hopped up about it though. Just sayin'.
 
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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#291
Oct 8, 2017
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BenFTW said:
God doesn't make mistakes. Surely it was all intended, in that He knew how it would all pan out and still decided to hit "play." He did this, obviously, because it was either the only way, or the best way. Knowing His creation would fall, He conducted a plan that would reconcile them and secure them, eternally. Jesus Christ, the Messiah dying on the cross as an atonement, and resurrecting on the third day, to then be seated at the Father's right hand, and actively being our High Priest interceding on our behalf forever (eternal priesthood).

God doesn't make mistakes.
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BenFTW (and All),

Certainly God does not make mistakes. And... as this thread bears witness...some of what God does can seem hard for us to understand/grasp/swallow. The thing I'll share now is also one of those things.

If the plan (I'll use 'purpose') of God was to reconcile and eternally secure (in a pleasant, living-in-heaven sort of way) all of his creation….then that purose would fail. We know God's purpose shall not fail, so that means that is NOT the purpose.

The purpose is to SORT all of his creation...NOT according to HIS love, but according to ours, because love forbids him to force.

In this, his purpose will invariably succeed.

(It's not as cold as my wording may make it sound. I'm just sharing the nuts and bolts of it.) Please see James 3:17.

Do ask if you'd like scripture references.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#292
Nov 12, 2015
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#292
Magenta said:
Calling someone skippy is derogatory. Not getting hopped up about it though. Just sayin'.
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I had no idea it was a derogatory term. I say it all the time to my sisters kids and my mom and my dog. I thought it just meant, okay, everyone stay calm, but in a lighthearted and funny way. That is truly what I thought it meant.

It was NOT my intent to speak to you in a derogatory manner. It was NOT. I will reserve the term from now on for use with people who I know understand that I mean no harm to them.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#293
Nov 12, 2015
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I even said settle down there, skippy, to my own self yesterday...I was handing a drink across the breakfast bar to one of my sisters kids and my hand decided to do an odd shake thing and I spilled some of it. So I told my own hand to: settle down there, skippy. I didn't intend to be speaking in a derogatory manner to my hand...:D

But I'm sorry you felt I was speaking to you derogatorily. I'm going to drop it now. I don't mean you can't talk some more about it, but just that I'm dropping it. It disturbs me a little bit that you often don't like the words I choose and think I'm using them in a mean or bad way, but I hope you will get to know me better and feel safe around me. It only disturbs me because it makes me feel bad that anyone thinks I have come at them with ill intent. I love you guys and I don't have any ill intent towards any of you. Okay, so dropping it now.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#294
Oct 7, 2012
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lightbearer said:
GOD did not make a mistake we did. We were made in GOD's image and likeness. We were not made to sin. This world is not as GOD intended. This world is the result of our choosing not GOD's. Because of our choices GOD had a plan in motion from the start. But GOD's intention from the beginning for mankind was to live in harmony in HIM; in love. We chose this through our own devising not GOD. This world and it's system is a result of sin not GOD's plan. HE is just working with it.
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That, what I put in bold in your post, is exactly why God, the Father sent Jesus Christ (the Son of God) to die on the cross and resurrect. In order to have that relationship God knew that a sacrifice was necessary, a righteousness that is of faith.

We were created with the ability to sin, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to sin. This world is not a mistake, it is as God intended for the purposes He has put in place. God didn't create the universe, and mankind and then just say, "Oops." He knew His creation with the ability to sin, to choose against Him, would do just that but in knowing this, He devised a plan that would reconcile them to Himself.

This world didn't take God by surprise. He has a picture for a perfect residence for us with Him, and this world is simply a stepping stone to get us there. This isn't to say that the ends justify the means as if God has done something unrighteousness, for there is no darkness in Him at all. No, He created us with the ability to choose life or death, and with that ability we, with the "help" of the devil, brought sin and decay into the world. God's foreknowledge doesn't hold Him culpable, it is us still making the decision. He is a witness to our actions, not the cause. Yet being aware, He again, made a way of redemption. A plan. Jesus Christ.
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
#295
Oct 11, 2017
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#295
Magenta said:
I said no such thing. Man was created to be in fellowship with God, but man chose otherwise, which God knew man would do.
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I think it important to note that God also knows some men (women), if shown their mistake, will repent and choose God if given another chance.

Isn't that why forgiveness is available in the first place.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#296
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#296
Consider that if evil comes into our life that God will use it to bring good.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#297
#297
Stunnedbygrace said:
I haven't been hiding from you. Was hiding from EG.
Just kidding of course. Wouldn't hide from either of you. :D

To say the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (to my understanding) just means that God could rest because it was all finished. There was not one thing that would happen that He hadn't already foreseen and accounted for. The plan was complete and would end just as He willed for it to.
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Amazingly, God said we could have this same rest, based on the same knowledge, all is completed. Sadly, few find this rest.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#298
#298
Stunnedbygrace said:
Sometimes, hitting refresh doesn't fix it for me, sometimes it does, skippy. :D
Right now, EG is saying, why are you complaining? She calls ME butthead...!:D
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Dont worry Magenta, buttface here gets things confused sometimes :p
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#299
Nov 12, 2015
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#299
eternally-gratefull said:
Dont worry Magenta, buttface here gets things confused sometimes :p
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This made me laugh so hard because it reminded me of something granpap said when I was little.

Dogs were always just kind of showing up at the farm. Sometimes they looked a little banged up but there was this one that showed up in good shape but he was the butt-ugliest dog you ever saw. His face was all squashed in and his teeth stuck out in different directions and his eyes didn't quite sit right in his skull. He was this short, squat, bowlegged thing. He really can't be described. He looked like he could have been from the pit of hell - no joke.

We were sitting on the porch, rocking, catching a good breeze that had sprung up (no A/C on the farm but house was on top of a hill and caught any breezes real good). So this dog walked up to granpap and just stood there. He reached down and gave it a pat and a scratch behind the ears, then started rocking again. The dog turned and walked back down the steps. Granpap said, I think that dog looks the same whether he's coming or going...
 
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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#300
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#300
Stunnedbygrace said:
This made me laugh so hard because it reminded me of something granpap said when I was little.

Dogs were always just kind of showing up at the farm. Sometimes they looked a little banged up but there was this one that showed up in good shape but he was the butt-ugliest dog you ever saw. His face was all squashed in and his teeth stuck out in different directions and his eyes didn't quite sit right in his skull. He was this short, squat, bowlegged thing. He really can't be described. He looked like he could have been from the pit of hell - no joke.

We were sitting on the porch, rocking, catching a good breeze that had sprung up (no A/C on the farm but house was on top of a hill and caught any breezes real good). So this dog walked up to granpap and just stood there. He reached down and gave it a pat and a scratch behind the ears, then started rocking again. The dog turned and walked back down the steps. Granpap said, I think that dog looks the same whether he's coming or going...
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Too funny! :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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