HAPPY LORDS DAY EVERYONE..JESUS IS RISEN!

trofimus · Apr 9, 2017

Even though those places do not say when the ressurection took place (7th or 1st day), its quite clear that the fist church knew Lord rose from the dead on the 1st day of the week (or sometimes referred to as "the 8th day").

Even though the first church is not "the word of God", witnesses and apostles or the disciples of apostles were still around so they would correct such a mistake, IMHO.

For example:

"Wherefore we also celebrate with gladness the eighth day in which Jesus also rose from the dead, and was made manifest, and ascended into Heaven."

Barnabas 15:8-9
- written between 80-120 AD

So it is not any "roman catholic change of days" or any other middle age conspiration, as sometimes said, but the common believe of the first apostolic church.

rstrats · Apr 9, 2017

trofimus,
re: "Even though those places do not say when the ressurection took place..."

Correct. I'm not suggesting that the resurrection didn't take place on the first of the week, (I think it probably did); I'm merely pointing out that the scriptures being offered as proof are not appropriate for supporting that position.

sparkman · Apr 9, 2017

rstrats said:

I can go that far. Actually I don't think the interpretations concerning Jesus ascending to the Father are correct, by the Armstrongite view of them.

I believe what Jesus was saying is, you don't need to hold onto me, my ascension is not imminent..referring to his bodily ascension to assume his seat at the right hand of the Father until his return. Jesus had already ascended to the Holy of Holies by the time Mary encountered him.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Here are some study notes from Zondervan NIV Study Bible that would support this view: 17 Do not hold on to me. Or Stop clinging to me. Mary probably fell to her face and was grasping Jesus by the feet (Matt 28:9). not yet ascended. Jesus ascension is still some time off (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9-11), so Mary does not have to hang on to him as if he is about to disappear permanently. my brothers. Jesus disciples (v. 18). ascending. In the process of ascending. my Father and your Father. God is the Father of both Jesus and believers but in different senses (1:12,14,18; cf. Rom 8:15-16; Heb 2:11-12).

beta · Apr 9, 2017

sparkman said:

Seems that the 'resurrection and ascension of Jesus are the 'same event to you and erring Christians.
How could they be when they accured at different times ? so no - there is no problem with the above statement when correctly understood....that the wave-sheaf offering/ceremony symbolizes Jesus ASCENSION which was indeed on sunday - not His resurrection which was on the sabbath.

beta · Apr 9, 2017

sparkman said:

And I put zero credibility on what ANY man says ! You would be better adviced to study scripture instead of slandering people.

tourist · Apr 9, 2017

The passage just say that it was after the Sabbath on the first day of week that the women found the tomb of Jesus to be empty. It does not specifically state when the actual resurrection took place. It could have been either Saturday or Sunday.

sparkman · Apr 9, 2017

beta said:

I do study Scripture..that's why I'm no longer a Judaizer.

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

sparkman said:

The Israelites were not allowed to harvest any of the early grain crop until this day.
Then, on the day following the weekly Sabbath, in a solemn ceremony of
the Levitical priesthood,The sheaf was then brought to the priest.

The priest solemnly waved it before the Eternal to be accepted for them.
This event always occurred during the Days of Unleavened Bread.

This pictures the resurrected Christ ascending to heaven to be accepted by
His Father as the very first human to be actually born of God in this fashion.

-the firstfruit of the first harvest of souls!

By comparing John 20:17 with Matthew 28:9, you will see that Christ presented
Himself before the Father on the morning after His resurrection the previous even.
(1 Corinthians 15:20, 23; Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18).

yes This fulfillment of the wavesheaf offering actually occurred on Sunday,
the morrow after the Sabbath during the Days of Unleavened Bread.
This does not tell us to keep sunday as A resurection celebration.
-
“feast of firstfruits,” and or “feast of weeks.”

The word Pentecost is a Greek word, used in the New Testament, but not in the Old.
It signifies “fiftieth (day). Old Testament this feast is called “feast of firstfruits,”
and “feast of weeks.” A Holy convocation apostles keep after Christ had risen.

Pentecost pictures the first part of the spiritual harvest— the calling out of the Church
the called-out ones—which, for the New Testament dispensation, began on Pentecost,
On that day the Holy Spirit came to dwell within flesh, as prophesied by Joel.

On the 50th day (Pentecost) in Old Testament times, two “wave loaves” (Lev 23:17, 20
were brought out of the habitations of the congregation as [the firstfruits unto the Lord].

Just so the New Testament Church was gathered out of this world as the firstfruits
of His salvation, in fulfillment of the meaning of the wave loaves.

And just as the wave sheaf was lifted up into the air and waved, symbolizing Christ’s
trip to heaven and return, so the wave loaves were lifted up and waved, symbolizing
that we too shall for a moment leave this solid Earth when we ascend to meet in the air
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

before we return with Him to stand on the Mount of Olives as
He begins His millennial rule on earth (Acts 1:11; Zechariah 14:3-4).

17Ye shall bring out of your habitations [two] wave loaves of two tenth deals:
they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven;
they are the firstfruits unto the Lord.

-one of the loaves here is for each of us, for a future acceptence by God.
This happenes on another Holy convocation of Gods in the future.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (ASV)
20 But now hath Christ been raised from the dead,
the firstfruits of them that are asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:23 (KJV)
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to
the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

“In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre” (Matthew 28:1).

The King James, along with just about every other Bible version, translates
the first part of this verse, “In the end of the sabbath” or “after the sabbath.”

But if you study the Greek text, you learn that the word for sabbath is
actually plural! “After the sabbaths,” it should read.

Jesus crucified on a Wednesday afternoon and buried later that evening,
before sunset. The next day, Thursday, was an annual sabbath. The day
after that, was preparation day for the regular weekly Sabbath.

The reason Matthew refers to sabbaths, plural, is because there were
two sabbaths that week! When Matthew says Mary came early Sunday morning,
before dawn, after one of the sabbaths, he is referring to the weekly Sabbath.

-

Mark 16:1 says Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices
“when the sabbath was past.” They were planning to prepare these
ointments and spices so that they might anoint the body of Jesus.

Yet Luke 23:56 says they prepared these spices and then rested on
the weekly Sabbath day. Compare these two texts carefully.

Christ inspired four different Gospel accounts to be written so that all the
important details of His life might be canonized. Mark said these women
bought the spices after the sabbath was past. Luke said they prepared
the spices before the Sabbath arrived.

Mark 16:1-Luke 23:56
Those who hold to the Good Friday-Easter belief must conclude that these
verses are a glaring contradiction. They are not! They complement each
other perfectly, if you understand that there were two sabbaths that week.

The women bought the spices on Friday, after the annual sabbath on Thursday.
They prepared the spices that same day, before the weekly Sabbath,
and then rested on the Sabbath according to God’s command.

When Mary approached the tomb early Sunday morning, before sunrise,
an angel nearby exclaimed, “He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come,
see the place where the Lord lay” (Matthew 28:6).

There were no eyewitnesses to Christ’s resurrection,
and there is only one historical record: the Holy Bible.

Christ’s proof of His messiahship was singular:
the length of time He would be in the ground.

Yes indeed! He had already risen—the day before, just prior to sunset
at the end of the weekly Sabbath.

His death, burial and resurrection happened precisely the way
He prophesied it would happen.

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

sparkman said:

please show a bible verse that says the lords day is sunday now,
or ever has been

beta · Apr 10, 2017

tourist said:

It could have been any time according to the scriptures the church teaches...coming from a roman background. The REAL Jesus never changed...HE is the same yesterday, today and forever ! Believe scripture and you will know the exact time.

beta · Apr 10, 2017

sparkman said:

Hate...hate...hate...are you on a hate campaign ? obviously not heard Jesus commandment yet to love neighbour, much less your enemy. Since when is walking with Jesus being a judaizer ?

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

trofimus said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism

The term "Quartodecimanism" (from the Vulgate Latin quarta decima in Leviticus 23:5,[SUP][1][/SUP] meaning fourteenth) refers to the custom of early Christians celebrating Passover beginning with the eve of the 14th day of Nisan (or Aviv in the Hebrew Bible calendar), which at dusk is biblically the "Lord's passover".[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
The modern Jewish Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread is seven days, starting with the sunset
at the beginning ofNisan 15. Judaism reckons the beginning of each day at sunset, not at midnight as
is common in Western reckoning. Thebiblical law regarding Passover is said to be a "perpetual ordinance"
(Exodus 12:14)

Polycarp

After the death of the apostle John, a disciple of his, Polycarp,
waged a controversy over the Passover-Easter question with the
bishop of Rome, by then leader of the church started by Simon.

Still later, another disciple of Christ’s true Christianity,
Polycrates, waged a still hotter controversy over the same
Passover-Easter question with another bishop of Rome.

This theological battle was called the Quartodeciman Controversy.
Polycrates contended, as Jesus and the original apostles taught,

that the Passover should be observed in the new Christian form
introduced by Jesus and by the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11),

using unleavened bread and wine instead of sacrificing a lamb,
on the eve of the 14th Nisan (first month in the sacred calendar,
occurring in the spring).

But [the Rome church] insisted that it be observed on a Sunday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy

Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycrates_of_Ephesus

Johnny_B · Apr 10, 2017

Romans 4:25 "who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification."

No resurrection, no justification.

trofimus · Apr 10, 2017

beta said:

Since when is not being a judaizer a "hate...hate...hate... hate campaign"?

trofimus · Apr 10, 2017

prove-all said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism

The term "Quartodecimanism" (from the Vulgate Latin quarta decima in Leviticus 23:5,[SUP][1][/SUP] meaning fourteenth) refers to the custom of early Christians celebrating Passover beginning with the eve of the 14th day of Nisan (or Aviv in the Hebrew Bible calendar), which at dusk is biblically the "Lord's passover".[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
The modern Jewish Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread is seven days, starting with the sunset
at the beginning ofNisan 15. Judaism reckons the beginning of each day at sunset, not at midnight as
is common in Western reckoning. Thebiblical law regarding Passover is said to be a "perpetual ordinance"
(Exodus 12:14)

Polycarp

After the death of the apostle John, a disciple of his, Polycarp,
waged a controversy over the Passover-Easter question with the
bishop of Rome, by then leader of the church started by Simon.

Still later, another disciple of Christ’s true Christianity,
Polycrates, waged a still hotter controversy over the same
Passover-Easter question with another bishop of Rome.

This theological battle was called the Quartodeciman Controversy.
Polycrates contended, as Jesus and the original apostles taught,

that the Passover should be observed in the new Christian form
introduced by Jesus and by the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11),

using unleavened bread and wine instead of sacrificing a lamb,
on the eve of the 14th Nisan (first month in the sacred calendar,
occurring in the spring).

But [the Rome church] insisted that it be observed on a Sunday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy

Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycrates_of_Ephesus

I would be glad if you can quote Polycarp directly, not just wikipedia about Polycarp.... I quoted Barnabas directly, without any opinions of anybody around it.

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

trofimus said:

the lost century in history

as Edward Gibbon wrote in
The History of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire

"The scanty materials of ecclesiastical history seldom enable us to dispel
the cloud that hangs over the first age of the church .

Jesse Lyman Hurlbert in
The story of the christian church

the age just after the book of acts he calls "..the age of shadows.."

"of all the periods in the churches history, it is the one about which we know
the least about. For fifty years after St. Paul's life a curtain hangs over the church,
through which we strive vainly to look;

William McLaughlin in
The Course of Christian History

"But Christianity itself had been in the process of transformation as it progressed
and at the close of the period was in many respects quite different from the apostolic
Christianity."

Samuel G. Green in
A handbook of church History

"The thirty years which followed the close of the New Testement canon and the
destruction of Jerusalem, are in truth the most obscure in the history of the church.
When we emerge in the second century, we are to a great extent in a changed world."

William fitzgerald in
lectures on ecclesiastical History

"over this period of transition, which immediatly succeeds upon
the era properly called apostolic, great obscurity hangs."

Philip Schaff in
History of the Christian Church

"The remaining thirty years of the first century are involved in mysterious darkness,
illuminated only by the writings of John. This is a period of church history about which
we know least and would like to know most."

"Simon Magus unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagon ideas and practices
and gave himself out for an emanation of God."

"This heresy in the second century spread over the whole church, east and west,
in the various schools of agnosticism."

--Satan was doing everything he could to destroy the Work of God, and in
little more than two decades, God’s people were turning to another gospel.

-this was the time of the Roman Empire , and in around 117 AD, at its greatest extent.
streched from Britian clear to modern day Turkey, and it ruled with the rod of iron.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years
I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

trofimus · Apr 10, 2017

prove-all said:

the lost century in history

as Edward Gibbon wrote in
The History of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire

"The scanty materials of ecclesiastical history seldom enable us to dispel
the cloud that hangs over the first age of the church .

Jesse Lyman Hurlbert in
The story of the christian church

the age just after the book of acts he calls "..the age of shadows.."

"of all the periods in the churches history, it is the one about which we know
the least about. For fifty years after St. Paul's life a curtain hangs over the church,
through which we strive vainly to look;

William McLaughlin in
The Course of Christian History

"But Christianity itself had been in the process of transformation as it progressed
and at the close of the period was in many respects quite different from the apostolic
Christianity."

Samuel G. Green in
A handbook of church History

"The thirty years which followed the close of the New Testement canon and the
destruction of Jerusalem, are in truth the most obscure in the history of the church.
When we emerge in the second century, we are to a great extent in a changed world."

William fitzgerald in
lectures on ecclesiastical History

"over this period of transition, which immediatly succeeds upon
the era properly called apostolic, great obscurity hangs."

Philip Schaff in
History of the Christian Church

"The remaining thirty years of the first century are involved in mysterious darkness,
illuminated only by the writings of John. This is a period of church history about which
we know least and would like to know most."

"Simon Magus unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagon ideas and practices
and gave himself out for an emanation of God."

"This heresy in the second century spread over the whole church, east and west,
in the various schools of agnosticism."

--Satan was doing everything he could to destroy the Work of God, and in
little more than two decades, God’s people were turning to another gospel.

-this was the time of the Roman Empire , and in around 117 AD, at its greatest extent.
streched from Britian clear to modern day Turkey, and it ruled with the rod of iron.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years
I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Sorry, I do not know these guys.

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

trofimus said:

some of Gods warning about another gospel being preached by people you might heard.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (KJV)
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV)

Jesus Christ warned, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4–5).

"There are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ" (Galatians 1:7).

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you
than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel
to you than what you have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8–9).

For (false Christs) and (false prophets shall rise), and shall shew signs and
wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mark 13:22 (KJV)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great
signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive
the very elect. Matthew 24:24

Beware of (false prophets), which come to you in (sheep's clothing),
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.(Matthew 7:15)

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that
you may (charge certain persons) not to teach (any different doctrine)
(1 Timothy 3)

But there were (false prophets) also among the people, even as there shall be
(false teachers among you), who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even
denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
(2 Peter 2:1)

These people are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They follow
their natural instincts because they do not have God’s Spirit in them.(Jude 1:19)

In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories.
Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction
has not been sleeping.(2 Peter 2:3)

a man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years, amazing the
people of Samaria and claiming to be someone great, a god to the people.

Everyone, from the least to the greatest, often spoke of him as “the Great One
—the Power of God.” They listened closely to him because for a long time he had
astounded them with his magic.Acts 8:9-10)

These are the things you are to teach and insist on.
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction
of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 1 Timothy 6:3

Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away
from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and (teachings that come
from demons). 1 Timothy 4:14

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(Matthew 7:22)

"Many will "begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord,
open for us,' Jesus said "Depart from Me, (all you workers of iniquity)."

Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw
away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that (for three years)
I never stopped (warning each of you night and day with tears).Acts 20:30

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so
that you may not be carried away by the error of (the lawless) and (fall from
your secure position).(2 Peter 3:17)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine,but according
to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for
themselves teachers. (II Timothy 4:3)

I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will (come in among you after
I leave), (not sparing the flock).Even some men from (your own group) will
rise up and (distort the truth) in order to draw a following.(Acts 20:29)

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to
live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel,which is really
no gospel at all.

(A great wave of persecution began that day), sweeping over the church in
Jerusalem; and (all the believers except the apostles) were scattered through
the regions of Judea and Samaria.(acts 8:9)

- all the believers scattered except the apostles, and they were tortured and killed.

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out
the saints of the most High, and (think to change times and laws): and they
shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

“Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of
her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips,
but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as
doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:8–9).

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death"
(Proverbs 14:12; 16:25

We should be aware of false teachers who desire to destroy our faith

prove-all · Apr 10, 2017

The first recorded official persecution of Christians on behalf of
the Roman Empire was in AD 64,

Emperor Nero attempted to blame Christians for the Great Fire of Rome.
According to Church tradition, it was during the reign of Nero that Peter
and Paul were martyred in Rome

Their refusal to participate in Imperial cult was considered an act of treason
and was thus punishable by execution

During the Great Persecution (303–311), the emperor ordered Christian buildings
and the homes of Christians torn down and their sacred books collected and burned.

Christians were arrested, tortured, mutilated, burned, starved, and condemned
to gladiatorial contests to amuse spectators

- -

ROME’S PERSECUTION OF THE BIBLE
https://www.wayoflife.org/database/persecutionofbible.html

The following is excerpted from the book ROME AND THE BIBLE:
TRACING THE HISTORY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
AND ITS PERSECUTION OF THE BIBLE AND OF BIBLE BELIEVERS.

To our knowledge, this is the first history ever published which details the
Roman Catholic Church’s relationship to the Bible from the first millennium
to the present. The book could also be titled “The Bible through the Centuries

During the period when the Roman Catholic Church was in power, she did
everything she could to keep the Bible out of the hands of the common people.

It was illegal to translate the Bible into the common languages, even though
most people could not read the official Catholic Bible because it was in Latin,
a language known only to the highly educated.

HAPPY LORDS DAY EVERYONE..JESUS IS RISEN!

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