Hard sayings

[garee]

There are a lot of things written in the bible, that IMO if we're honest, we'll admit that we really don't understand. Here's one that stumps me.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13​

Supposedly, Jesus said no man ascended to heaven except himself (who had not yet ascended to heaven), but he was on earth when he spoke this and not in heaven as the text says. Now did Jesus say this, or was this John speaking from his perspective after the resurrection? At some point in John 3, it is John's words and not Jesus' words, but it's not clear where that point is.

There's actually a textual variant in this verse. This is how it reads in some manuscripts

And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. John 3:13​

That removes the difficulty of Jesus being on earth and saying that he is in heaven.

There is a difference between the words “hard saying” (the Hebrew word skleros... an offensive saying) and that which is “hard to understand” . The difference is some do not mix faith (the unseen will of God) given in various parables in what they do hear.

We can look at the two different kinds of disciples. Those who did believe, have faith to the salvation of their soul and those who walked away in unbelief ,no faith.

Strong's lexicon..." Hard saying"4642 skleros {sklay-ros'}
from the base of 4628; TDNT - 5:1028,816; adj
AV - hard 5, fierce 1 - 6
1) hard, harsh, rough, stiff 1a) of men: metaph. harsh, stern, hard 1b) of things: violent, rough, offensive, intolerable

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh “profiteth nothing”: the words that I speak unto you, “they are” spirit, and “they are” life.. Joh 6:60

n order to understand the parable; “drink the blood of men” as it relates to Christ the spiritual meaning must be sought out. To drink the literal blood of any sacrifice is an abomination. It is required to be poured out at the base of the altar or the cross so that it can re-enter the spiritless, lifeless dust it was taken from .Just as Christ’s literal blood did return to its lifeless source. As the Holy Spirit when Christ of his own accord gave it up it returned to the Father, the one source of spirit life. .

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

There are a lot of things written in the bible, that IMO if we're honest, we'll admit that we really don't understand. Here's one that stumps me.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13​

Supposedly, Jesus said no man ascended to heaven except himself (who had not yet ascended to heaven), but he was on earth when he spoke this and not in heaven as the text says. Now did Jesus say this, or was this John speaking from his perspective after the resurrection? At some point in John 3, it is John's words and not Jesus' words, but it's not clear where that point is.

There's actually a textual variant in this verse. This is how it reads in some manuscripts

And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. John 3:13​

That removes the difficulty of Jesus being on earth and saying that he is in heaven.

Thanks for that, good to know, because they seemed to be having more difficulty with him coming down from heaven when beholding His earthly parents in John 6:42

Heres a few to yours showing the same in accord with it

Proverbs 30:4
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Not yet ascended

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for
I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Ephes 4:8
Wherefore he saith,
When he ascended up on high,
he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephes 4:9
( Now that he ascended, what is it but that he
also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephes 4:10
He that descended is the same also
that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted,
and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost,
he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.