Has man tried to improve on the ways of the Lord?

[Dino246]

Why?

As you stated, "It has become a necessary study to learn when and how men have decided to improve on the words of the Lord. We need to eliminate the improvements and keep to the pure words of the Lord. "

If you want to be (as) certain (as is humanly possible) that you have "the pure words of the Lord", you need to learn Hebrew and Greek. Every translation is an "improvement".

 

[Aaron56]

Gal 6:11 Maybe u ment the first 4 books puny gentile minds...Paul
Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.

Uh, that's literally what he wrote: "..the gospels." "The gospels" is traditionally understood to be the first 4 books of the NT.

 

[rayzor]

Uh, that's literally what he wrote: "..the gospels." "The gospels" is traditionally understood to be the first 4 books of the NT.

i do digress.

 

[Blik]

By the way, I meant to respond to this in your prior post. "
expand...
What does the race of our parents have to do with the truth of the Lord? "

Jew, is not a race.

I thought it was the Hebrew race??

 

[Icedaisey]

I thought it was the Hebrew race??

I thought it was the Hebrew race??

Not all Israelites were Jews.

 

[laymen]

indeed , there is a source where it all began with man trying to change what God said
‬‬

I think you ment Satan changed the words of God not man right?

 

[Icedaisey]

I think you ment Satan changed the words of God not man right?

No, it was man.

 

[Blik]

No, it was man.

If we carefully study all that Christ said about demons, Christ gave demons the cause of things we would today say were caused by physical or psychological problems. We know of and accept that there are angels and the holy spirit helping us. I would bet that if we could know of what goes on in the world around us that we cannot see, we would see how demons also work in our world.

I have been using the net to explore the occult in our movies, and am amazed I didn't see it until they pointed it out. Valentino had seances every night. Starwars created am idol called the force. Seances are taken a step farther as the dead becomes a main character. Demons use the principles of the Lord with a twist to them, and so does the movies. We are influenced by them unless we hold fast to all of the Lord, like Jesus did when demons tempted Him in the wilderness.

 

[Magenta]

... like Jesus did when demons tempted Him in the wilderness.

Satan/the devil/the tempter temped Jesus in the wilderness.

 

[Blik]

As you stated, "It has become a necessary study to learn when and how men have decided to improve on the words of the Lord. We need to eliminate the improvements and keep to the pure words of the Lord. "

If you want to be (as) certain (as is humanly possible) that you have "the pure words of the Lord", you need to learn Hebrew and Greek. Every translation is an "improvement".

You are ignoring the wonderful helps we have by men who have studied Hebrew and Greek. Another way of learning to not accept additions by man is to hold fast to Christ and his word with prayer. His word is even written for little children who haven't been to school of any kind to understand. The idea behind learning when and how man added to scripture is simply trying to sort out the truths of the Lord that are pure, before man added his interpretation of the truths.

The bottom line in the truths of the Lord, and one way to get there is to recognize when and how those truths were added to, but it is the bottom line that is important.

 

[Dino246]

You are ignoring the wonderful helps we have by men who have studied Hebrew and Greek. Another way of learning to not accept additions by man is to hold fast to Christ and his word with prayer. His word is even written for little children who haven't been to school of any kind to understand. The idea behind learning when and how man added to scripture is simply trying to sort out the truths of the Lord that are pure, before man added his interpretation of the truths.

The bottom line in the truths of the Lord, and one way to get there is to recognize when and how those truths were added to, but it is the bottom line that is important.

Yes... we do indeed have fantastic resources available to assist us in understanding Scripture. Tell me something though: what is the fundamental difference between "helps" and "additions of man"? The Scripture we have today is reliable, and the claim that man has "added to Scripture" is not well supported by the evidence.

 

[laymen]

No, it was man.

indeed , there is a source where it all began with man trying to change what God said

“And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but then

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
‬‬

sorry but it was the serpent

 

[Blik]

Yes... we do indeed have fantastic resources available to assist us in understanding Scripture. Tell me something though: what is the fundamental difference between "helps" and "additions of man"? The Scripture we have today is reliable, and the claim that man has "added to Scripture" is not well supported by the evidence.

what do you mean by evidence? Scripture makes it clear what is the truth, but to decide if Paul cancelled law and what Paul means takes knowing all scripture as truth and the help of the holy spirit. Now it is getting into interpretation. It is simple to tell the difference between interpretation and facts. Bible helps are dependent on facts. As an example, telling us what a Hebrew word means in English is not interpretation, but a fact of what it means.

History is a help, but that must be carefully used. All history has a bias, as they choose what facts to give of a time. History can be factual yet by giving only one side of an issue, it distorts the facts. AS an example a factual study of Constantine can show him as a savior of Christianity or as someone who destroyed true Christianity, both using facts by choosing what facts to present.

 

[Dino246]

what do you mean by evidence? Scripture makes it clear what is the truth, but to decide if Paul cancelled law and what Paul means takes knowing all scripture as truth and the help of the holy spirit. Now it is getting into interpretation. It is simple to tell the difference between interpretation and facts. Bible helps are dependent on facts. As an example, telling us what a Hebrew word means in English is not interpretation, but a fact of what it means.

History is a help, but that must be carefully used. All history has a bias, as they choose what facts to give of a time. History can be factual yet by giving only one side of an issue, it distorts the facts. AS an example a factual study of Constantine can show him as a savior of Christianity or as someone who destroyed true Christianity, both using facts by choosing what facts to present.

You have adequately defined “helps” as you are using ther term, but you haven’t defined “additions”. Please do so, that we may continue the discussion.

 

[Blain]

I think that for hundreds of years man has tried to improve on the ways of the Lord.

God said do not murder, and Christ gave instructions about what God considers murder, yet man has often murdered in Christ’s eyes when there are differences in scripture interpretation.

Constantine started this off when he made what he labeled heresy a criminal act.

Before that, Christians agreed on core instructions from Christ alone, interpreted by the apostles. They made sure they took no instructions except from men directly trained by Christ. They argued with those who strayed, but let them be, otherwise.

Man has even improved on our food, processing and redoing our food, and thinking they would improve on what God provided for us. We have immune systems that can’t handle viruses, as a result.

It has become a necessary study to learn when and how men have decided to improve on the words of the Lord. We need to eliminate the improvements and keep to the pure words of the Lord.

No man has not tried to improve the ways of the Lord they have tried to make his ways into their way. Look at processed food you take natural food that is designed for the human body and you get fake and lesser food that is not fit for the human body it is materialized cheap and not good for us just like the ways of man.
God tells us how we are not only blessed by doing things his way but how it is good for our body mind and soul man in our arrogance and stupidity think we can use our own wisdom to make things better and see how many nowadays have cancer or all kinds of genetic defects

This is no accident what you put in your body doesn't just affect you it affects your offspring as well and big companies make millions by not curing sicknesses but rather having us pay to deal with them or manage them. In short God's ways are not even in the picture when it comes to improvement

 

[Blik]

You have adequately defined “helps” as you are using ther term, but you haven’t defined “additions”. Please do so, that we may continue the discussion.

Constantine added many additions as he tried to improve on the church and support it in his way, improvements we are still using. He called for a council of men to decide church questions, an "improvement" on called on men trained by the apostles. He made laws outlawing heresies, a "improvement" on simply arguing with them. He "improved" the church by putting it under his control rather than humbly letting Christ control it, so even today we mix in what our culture tells us to do with what Christ tells us to do. He told the church that anything the Jews do, we must not do for they are an evil people. The Lord told us that we are not to be guided by rituals but by the holy spirit, and this is partially supported by scripture, but it is taking to such extremes that we follow Constantine more than following the Lord.

If what I am posting is the truth, then please listen, but look for the truth, don't look for gunning for me. I am asking that these things be looked into for what is truth. God is truth, no man is the truth.

 

[Dino246]

Constantine added many additions as he tried to improve on the church and support it in his way, improvements we are still using. He called for a council of men to decide church questions, an "improvement" on called on men trained by the apostles. He made laws outlawing heresies, a "improvement" on simply arguing with them. He "improved" the church by putting it under his control rather than humbly letting Christ control it, so even today we mix in what our culture tells us to do with what Christ tells us to do. He told the church that anything the Jews do, we must not do for they are an evil people. The Lord told us that we are not to be guided by rituals but by the holy spirit, and this is partially supported by scripture, but it is taking to such extremes that we follow Constantine more than following the Lord.

Okay, so Constantine did a bunch of stuff that was unhelpful. That really doesn't answer my question, because we don't follow Constantine or treat his "improvements" as Scripture. So again, what "improvements", that we supposedly embrace today, concern you?

If what I am posting is the truth, then please listen, but look for the truth, don't look for gunning for me. I am asking that these things be looked into for what is truth. God is truth, no man is the truth.

I'm not looking for "gunning for" you. I'm asking you questions so that I can understand what you're trying to say.

 

[Blik]

Okay, so Constantine did a bunch of stuff that was unhelpful. That really doesn't answer my question, because we don't follow Constantine or treat his "improvements" as Scripture. So again, what "improvements", that we supposedly embrace today, concern you?

I'm not looking for "gunning for" you. I'm asking you questions so that I can understand what you're trying to say.

I pointed out how the improvements that Constantine made carry over into our interpretation of scripture today.

Before Constantine being a Christian was expressed in caring for each other. That changed with Constantine and being a Christian today is still not centered on each church member caring for each other.

My experience with your posts is that you are determined to create them to be in error, regardless, I don't think you consider what the post says at all. Your posts in reply to mine is usually blank simple statements that my post is wrong, regardless of the subject matter of my post that you usually ignore or refute blankly. Your decision that I do not think correctly overrides your ability to think of a subject.

 

[Dino246]

I pointed out how the improvements that Constantine made carry over into our interpretation of scripture today.

Before Constantine being a Christian was expressed in caring for each other. That changed with Constantine and being a Christian today is still not centered on each church member caring for each other.

My experience with your posts is that you are determined to create them to be in error, regardless, I don't think you consider what the post says at all. Your posts in reply to mine is usually blank simple statements that my post is wrong, regardless of the subject matter of my post that you usually ignore or refute blankly. Your decision that I do not think correctly overrides your ability to think of a subject.

In other threads, where I see that you are in error, I point out the error. So far, in this thread, I'm not accusing you of being in error. Rather, I'm trying to understand you.

You claim here that "Before Constantine being a Christian was expressed in caring for each other." Okay, where is your evidence for that?

You also claim "being a Christian today is still not centered on each church member caring for each other." Again, where is your evidence? The people in the local church I attend do care for each other, and show it. Whatever unfortunate experience you have or had is not the experience of everyone, and it is unhelpful to assume that your experience is common to even "most" Christians.

 

[rayzor]

In other threads, where I see that you are in error, I point out the error. So far, in this thread, I'm not accusing you of being in error. Rather, I'm trying to understand you.

You claim here that "Before Constantine being a Christian was expressed in caring for each other." Okay, where is your evidence for that?

You also claim "being a Christian today is still not centered on each church member caring for each other." Again, where is your evidence? The people in the local church I attend do care for each other, and show it. Whatever unfortunate experience you have or had is not the experience of everyone, and it is unhelpful to assume that your experience is common to even "most" Christians.

it not close to the same people where in love ...now its like distance friends no miracles...except the distance ones