Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,219
4,952
113
Before... until... until... Now...

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


When was the law put aside?
Take your pick. See the list of evidence below.

Question: When was the law put aside?

Answer:

- The law was put aside when John the Baptist arrived.

- The law was put aside when Christ arrived.

- The law was put aside at the Baptism of Christ.

- The law was put aside in the Sermon on the Mount.

- The law was put aside when Jesus was challenged by the religious leaders.

- The law was put aside when Jesus challenged the religious leaders.

- The law was put aside when God directed Jesus to do the work of healing on the Sabbath.

- The law was put aside when Jesus spoke to the Rich Young Ruler.

- The law was put aside at the Transfiguration of Christ.

- The law was put aside at the Death of Christ.

- The law was put aside at the Resurrection of Christ.

- The law was put aside on the road to Damascus.

- The law was put aside when Jesus commanded, or condoned acts of Sabbath-breaking.
The moment Jesus died his words in the gospel became the testament

“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead:

otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:16-17KJV‬‬

It’s like a Will and testament what Jesus said became effective when he died and shed his blood of the covenant, until Jesus died and rose Moses word remained. Now the world has the gospel to hear and believe
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
When Christ said "It is finished" and died; and the curtain of the temple was torn; that's when the law was set aside.
No, that’s when the Law was finally FULFILLED!

Jesus fulfilled the Law for all that will believe in Him as Savior Lord and King.

The Law has never been set aside, the Law has been fulfilled!

However, those that do not believe in Jesus Christ, remain under the Law unable to fulfill it.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
Agree. Only put aside for people when they come to Christ then?
Hello Oyster,

The Law remains in full force… never has the Law been set aside.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt.5.17,Matt.5.18&version=KJV

Jesus Christ in a human body fulfilled the Law for all that will believe in Him and receive Him as Savior Lord and King.

Our good works for salvation are filthy rags but Jesus Christ’s good works are the complete human fulfillment of the Law - the Righteousness of God.

Jesus Christ takes our filthy rags of righteousness and gives us His Righteousness which is the Law fulfilled. We cannot boast in our works, we can only boast in Jesus Christ’s Works.

It is finished…The Lord our Righteousness!
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
Before... until... until... Now...

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


When was the law put aside?
Take your pick. See the list of evidence below.

Question: When was the law put aside?

Answer:

- The law was put aside when John the Baptist arrived.

- The law was put aside when Christ arrived.

- The law was put aside at the Baptism of Christ.

- The law was put aside in the Sermon on the Mount.

- The law was put aside when Jesus was challenged by the religious leaders.

- The law was put aside when Jesus challenged the religious leaders.

- The law was put aside when God directed Jesus to do the work of healing on the Sabbath.

- The law was put aside when Jesus spoke to the Rich Young Ruler.

- The law was put aside at the Transfiguration of Christ.

- The law was put aside at the Death of Christ.

- The law was put aside at the Resurrection of Christ.

- The law was put aside on the road to Damascus.

- The law was put aside when Jesus commanded, or condoned acts of Sabbath-breaking.
The Law remains in full force… never has the Law been set aside. However, the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt.5.17,Matt.5.18&version=KJV

Jesus Christ in a human body fulfilled the Law for all that will believe in Him and receive Him as Savior Lord and King.

Our good works for salvation are filthy rags but Jesus Christ’s good works are the complete human fulfillment of the Law - the Righteousness of God.

Jesus Christ takes our filthy rags of righteousness and gives us His Righteousness which is the Law fulfilled. We cannot boast in our works, we can only boast in Jesus Christ’s Works.

It is finished…The Lord our Righteousness!
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,736
1,726
113
Hello Oyster,

The Law remains in full force… never has the Law been set aside.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt.5.17,Matt.5.18&version=KJV

Jesus Christ in a human body fulfilled the Law for all that will believe in Him and receive Him as Savior Lord and King.

Our good works for salvation are filthy rags but Jesus Christ’s good works are the complete human fulfillment of the Law - the Righteousness of God.

Jesus Christ takes our filthy rags of righteousness and gives us His Righteousness which is the Law fulfilled. We cannot boast in our works, we can only boast in Jesus Christ’s Works.

It is finished…The Lord our Righteousness!
Heaven and earth was a system of the children of Israel’s law with the outer court representing earth and the Inner court representing heaven so heaven and earth passed when It comes to the law and now we have the New Testament.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
Heaven and earth was a system of the children of Israel’s law with the outer court representing earth and the Inner court representing heaven so heaven and earth passed when It comes to the law and now we have the New Testament.
Hmmm…:unsure: I shall ponder this…:love:
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,572
1,074
113
Australia
It is finished…The Lord our Righteousness!
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We are free from the laws condemnation, and by grace Jesus gives us His righteousness.
But we are not told that the law no longer defines sin. we are told to be servents of righteousness.
If the law no longer applies how do we define righteousness and sin? The law must be still the same today as it was in the past. God does not change, and sin is the same today as it was in the past.
We do not put ourselves under the law because Jesus has taken care of the justice and penalty of the law, but we serve God (and the law) in love from thankfulness and with a desire to be like Jesus, (Jesus was righteous because He kept the law and did not sin).
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,572
1,074
113
Australia
Heaven and earth was a system of the children of Israel’s law with the outer court representing earth and the Inner court representing heaven so heaven and earth passed when It comes to the law and now we have the New Testament.
scripture please. Were does the bible say this.

The true sanctuary is in heaven.
It is clear from what John reveals in Revelation that Jesus is in the temple in Heaven
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 11: 1&2, ...
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The earthly sanctuary has finished because Jesus is in Heaven ministering as our priest.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,736
1,726
113
scripture please. Were does the bible say this.

The true sanctuary is in heaven.
It is clear from what John reveals in Revelation that Jesus is in the temple in Heaven
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 11: 1&2, ...
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The earthly sanctuary has finished because Jesus is in Heaven ministering as our priest.
How Heaven and Earth Passed Away
David Curtis





When I first came to see as truth the fact that the Lord had come in 70 AD and all prophecy had been fulfilled my first objection was, "This means we are living in the new heaven and the new earth!" My response to that was "Yea right! If this is the New heaven and earth we got ripped off!"
Why did I feel that way? It was because I was looking for a physical fulfillment of 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 21-22. I thought that those passages were speaking of physical truths, I now know differently, I didn't understand apocalyptic language. The thing that changed my mind was seeing how the Old Testament Scripture used the concept of heaven and earth. Lets look at how the scripture uses the concept of heaven and earth, I think you'll see that it is not always used physically.



The Teaching of Jesus


Question: Has heaven and earth passed away? Ridiculous you say? Let us ask another question: Do you believe the Old Covenant has been done away? I dare say you will say it has. Few believers in Jesus would deny he has established his New Covenant. If you believe the Old Covenant has passed away, then you must believe "heaven and earth" has passed away!Please read the words of Jesus:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18).​

Did you notice that Jesus said heaven and earth had to pass away before the law could pass?!? Yes, he really did say it; please, get your scripture right now and read it for yourself! Has the heaven and earth passed away? Well, obviously, physical heaven and earth haven't been destroyed. But read the text again will you? Jesus DID say until heaven and earth pass away the Old Law could not pass. Our choices here are limited.

If we understand the "heaven and earth" as literal, physical heaven and earth then this means the Old Law is still in effect. Simply put the argument would go like this: If heaven and earth had to pass before the Old Law could pass; and if heaven and earth refers to literal, physical heaven and earth, then, since literal, physical heaven and earth still exist, [have not passed], it must be true that the Old Law has not passed.

A person could say the Law here is the Law of Jesus; but this will not work because Jesus had not yet died to confirm his New Covenant. He was living under the Old Law at the time also. The Jews standing there were not concerned with the passing of Jesus' law. They did not believe he even had one! They were concerned with the Old Law! Finally, if this is speaking about the passing of Christ's law it contradicts the verses in the New Testament that teach Jesus' word will never pass away in Matthew 24:35.

On the other hand, if we understand the "heaven and earth" as figurative language, referring not to physical creation, but to something else, it is possible that this "heaven and earth" could pass away, allowing for the passing of the Law.

We have Jesus' own words as to when all prophecy was to be fulfilled. In Luke 21:22 our Lord spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem and said "These be the days of vengeance in which all things that are written must be fulfilled." In verse 32 he emphatically said "this generation will not pass away until all things take place." Verse 33 contains Jesus' statement that "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will by no means pass away." In Luke 21:20-22. Jesus is speaking here of the destruction of Jerusalem, an event that was to occur forty years from the time that he spoke.

Luke 21 thus contains the identical elements of Matthew 5:17-18; the passing of heaven and earth, and the fulfillment of all prophecy emphatically placed within the context of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD! Note the perfect correlation of Daniel 9, Matthew 24, Revelation and Luke 21. They all tell of the time when all prophecy would be fulfilled; they all identify that time as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD!

The Jewish idiom "the law and the prophets" in Matthew 5:17-18 means the totality of the Old Testament revelation. Jesus said he did not come to destroy it but fulfill it. Jesus is saying here, in Matthew 5, that the old law has to be fulfilled, every jot and every tittle has to be fulfilled, before it can pass away. If 2 Peter 3 is based upon the Old Testament prophets, and it is, and if 2 Peter 3 has not been fulfilled, then we are still under the Old Covenant law. That is quite simple. Do you believe that we are in the New Covenant? If we are then the Old Covenant must have passed away. And if the Old Covenant has passed then 2 Peter 3 has been fulfilled.

Let us explore the definition of the heaven and earth. Lets start by reading 2 Peter 3. Most Christians would say that this is the end of the world as we know it, the destruction of planet earth. It sure sounds that way doesn't it? That is how I had always seen it.

One of the major areas of difficulty in understanding correctly "heaven and earth" in the New Testament is the misunderstanding of how God referred to nations by this phrase in the Old Testament. Seeing the biblical concept of "heaven and earth" in the Old Testament will help us greatly in correctly understanding its use in New Testament passages. Rather than to assume that each time we encounter the phrase, we are to immediately think of this physical universe and its elements.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,736
1,726
113
Heaven and Earth in the New Testament Books




Hebrews 12:26-28 is another text that speaks of the passing of the Old Covenant World under the imagery of the passing of heaven and earth. "Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earthonly, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:"

The writer alludes to the giving of the Law at Sinai, [remember Isaiah 51], as the shaking of earth. He says God promised to shake not only earth, but heaven also. This shaking signified removing them; therefore, God was promising to remove heaven and earth. Why? So that something that could not be removed would remain. Now notice in verse 28 he says they were, at that time, receiving (they had not already completely received it) a kingdom "that cannot be shaken." Reader, if they were receiving an unshakable kingdom, this of necessity means the "heaven and earth" was being removed! [Remember Jesus' words in Matthew 24:35 about the "heaven and earth" passing but his word not passing? Jesus' world then is unshakable. Hebrews is discussing the shaking of one world and receiving of another unshakable kingdom. See the comparison?].



In Matthew 24, Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This Temple was the very center of the Jewish world. This is where the sacrifices for sin were offered by the genealogically confirmed Levitical priests. For Jesus to predict the utter desolation of this temple was the same as saying their world was about to come crashing down around their ears!



The last book in the scripture confirms that all prophecy was to be fulfilled at the fall of Jerusalem. This book is the story of the fall of the great city, Babylon. Many differing interpretations have been offered to identify this city and yet the most obvious interpretation of all has been ignored. Revelation specifically identifies Babylon--it is the great city "where our Lord was crucified"(Revelation 11:8). Reader, Jesus was not crucified in Rome; he was not crucified "in" the Roman Catholic church, he was not crucified "in" apostate Christianity. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem!



Our point is this, John predicted the fall of Babylon, the city where our Lord was crucified. He expressed this under the imagery of the passing of heaven and earth. He said all this was to "shortly take place." See the correlation with Daniel 9, Matthew 5 and Matthew 24? Such beautiful harmony is no accident!







2 Peter 3




With this understanding of how "heaven and earth" is used in the scripture, let's look at 2 Peter 3. This was, by far, the text that I struggled with the most. I could not understand how we were in the New heavens and the New earth. As you read different commentaries you will read things like, "this is by far the strongest passage to prove the consummation of time, the termination of the earth as we know it." But what is so inherently different about 2 Peter 3 (the earth and its works burnt up) and Deut 32:22 (fire consumes the earth and its yield)?



In 2 Peter 3:1-2, Peter is reminding us of what has already been said. The New Testament does not contain brand new prophecies that just dropped out of the sky containing new information. 2 Peter 3 is just a reiteration of what has already been written by the prophets that spoke before. Peter gives us a key to interpretation. That key is that what he is saying has been written by the Old Testament prophets. Keep that in mind.



In 2 Peter 3:3-4, Peter said that these scoffers would come in the last days, when are the last days? Micah 4:1 says that God's kingdom will be established in the last days. According to Peter in Acts 2:14-20, the last days began at Pentecost and these last days included and ended with the great and awesome day of the Lord.



In Hebrews 1:1-2, the "last days" refers to the last days of the house of Israel, the last days of the Old Covenant. The last days are the period from 30 AD to 70 AD. Isn't it interesting that during that time the scoffers were already asking, "where is the promise of His coming?" If they were questioning His coming then, about 35 years after his death, what would they be saying today, two thousand years later? They knew that his coming was to be soon, sometime within the first century.



Now, some use the argument from 2 Peter 3:5-7 that the world was destroyed in Noah's day and the world will be destroyed again. Lets consider that argument.



Peter says that the world consisted of heaven and earth, and that they were destroyed by water and perished. We know that the substance of neither heaven or earth was destroyed, but it was the evil men that were destroyed, God brought "the flood upon the world of the ungodly" (2 Peter 2:5). Peter makes a distinction between the heaven and earth of Noah's day which were destroyed, and the heaven and earth that existed then which were to be destroyed by fire. The literal visible fabric of heaven and earth were the same after the flood as they were before the flood. Lets remember what we saw in the Old Testament as to the apocalyptic use of heaven and earth. The destruction of heaven and earth refers to the civil and religious state, and the men of them. What was it that really perished in the flood? Look at verse 6 – "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished." It was the world that perished, right? Now what does the word "world" mean? It is the orderly arrangement of society, it wasn't the dirt. Now how do you go from an ungodly society that was destroyed to the destruction of the entire universe? The literal earth was not destroyed. What is to be destroyed is the ungodly nation of Israel. Nowhere do the Scriptures teach that the physical creation will be destroyed. Notice what God said after the flood of Noah's day in Genesis 8:21.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,736
1,726
113
Genesis 8:21, "And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."​
Now, folks will say that the Lord destroyed the earth by water one time and He'll destroy it by fire the next time. Is God's promise here to just change his method of destroying everything? Is there comfort in being destroyed by fire instead of water? Or is he promising not to destroy the earth again?



God said the literal heaven (Psalm 148:4-6) and the literal earth (Psalm 104:5) will never pass away. Psalms 78:69, "...the earth which he hath established for ever." In Genesis 8:21, God said he would never again destroy every living thing. God can be trusted, He keeps his word. "…the earth abideth for ever" (Ecclesiastes 1:4). And remember Isaiah 9:7, "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end." If the earth is to be destroyed, then that would be the end of the increase of Christ's government.



2 Peter 3:8-9 is simply saying that God keeps his promises. In 2 Peter 3:10, what is "the day of the Lord"? It is a time of judgment on Israel, it is the end of the Old Covenant age. We have a parallel passage in Matthew 24:42-44. Peter is talking about Jesus second coming at the end of the Jewish age. When the Lord comes, the heaven and earth of the Old Covenant age will pass away. Let me give you a question here to think about -- where is the millennium in Peters discussion? Peter is talking about the Lord coming and when He does we go right into the New heaven and earth.



When we read the word "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12, we think of the scientific idea of the elements of matter, all the atoms of the universe burning up. But is this what the word "elements" means? The Greek word for elements is stoicheia, it is only used seven times in the New Testament.



Galatians 4:3, "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:"
Galatians 4:9, "But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"
Colossians 2:8, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
Colossians 2:20,22, "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances… after the commandments and doctrines of men?"
Hebrews 5:12, "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."​
In other words, this is the elements of religious training, or the ceremonial precepts that are common to the worship of Jews and of Gentiles. Obviously, this stoicheia is not about atoms or destruction of the universe.



What is being dissolved in 2 Peter 3:11-13? The Old Covenant system is being dissolved, not the universe. Where do we have a promise about a new heaven and earth? Peter was surly thinking of the book of Isaiah, chapters 65 and 66 (read Isaiah 65:17).



If you read Isaiah 65 and 66, you will notice that, before God creates the new heavens and a new earth, God predicted that Israel would fill the measure of her sin (65:7); he would destroy them (65:8-15; 66:3-6,15-18,24); create a new people with a new name (65:15-16); then create a new heaven and earth with a new Jerusalem (65:17-19). When God created the new heavens and earth, notice that physical death will remain (Isa. 65:20, 66:24), home construction and agriculture will continue (Isa. 65:21-22), we will have descendants (Isa. 65:23, 66:22), the Lord will hear their prayers (Isa. 65:24), there will still be sin (Isa. 65:20, Mat.12:32, Rev.22:15 ), and it is depicted as a time of evangelism when the Jew and Gentile will be brought together under the banner of God (66:19). The new heavens and earth, therefore, cannot be referring to the eternal state; it must be referring to a period in man's history. This is the period of the Kingdom of God which Christ rules in the hearts of the believers. The Kingdom of God is made without hands (spiritual - Dan. 2:34, 44-45; c.f. Col. 2:10-11). If we take the statements from the scriptures at face value, then we should conclude that the first heavens and the first earth passed away and was replaced by the glorious reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, the kingdom without end. Notice that in this New Heaven and Earth, righteousness dwells, as it does in the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:9).







Conclusion




There are three heaven and earth time periods in 2 Peter 3, and the change from one epoch of time to another was referred to as a passing of heaven and earth. The object of that expression was to show a change in God's dealings with man rather than a change in the literal, material constitution of the world itself.



Futurists teach that the new heaven and earth of Revelation 21 and the new Jerusalem of Revelation 22 is the saved of all ages, the bride of Christ at the end of the millennium, when all things have ended and we have embarked into eternity: They have entered eternity; sin, death, hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire. Remember that all evil has been disposed of, God has healed the Church of her ills, sin has been finally purged from her so that only a grandiose description of her can truly tell of her beauty. The futurists teach that the earth will be a physical paradise at this time, but is that what the Scriptures say?



When we look at Revelation 22:1-2, a question immediately comes to mind: why would the nations need healing? They have entered eternity; sin, death, Hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire. Why would they need healing if they are now in eternal bliss? Remember that all evil has been disposed of, God has healed the Church of her ills, sin has been finally purged If one adopts the futurist view, then one is at pains to explain this tree. Why would the gates of this city be left open if everything outside this city is destroyed (Rev.21:25)? If everyone outside these gates were burned up, and there is nobody left alive outside these gates, why are there people still entering through the gates into the city after the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven (Rev.22:14)? If one adopts the preterist view, the explanations are quite easy. Does the New Covenant gospel age end, or is it truly an everlasting covenant as Hebrews 13:20 says? It is obviously a never ending age. The new age, or the new world, will never end (Isa.45:17 Eph.3:21, Ecc.1:4).



His plan for us is an ever-deepening experience of Christ's presence, and an unfolding realization of his sovereignty over all things. God called Israel to be a light to the nations, to lead all people into a covenant relationship with the Father. His purpose for his church, the "Israel of God," is the same. We are to be calling the world to drink of the living water of the gospel. Let's be faithful to our calling.



Revelation 22:17, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."​


Full preterists see the scripture not as the history of man, but as the history of Old Covenant Israel, and that all the prophecies in the Old Covenant concerning the future of Israel are fulfilled in Christ, and are spiritual in nature. Just as there was a 40 year period of wandering between the giving of the Old Covenant and the entering of the physical promised land, so also there was a 40-year wandering period of the church in between the giving of the New Covenant and the entering in of the spiritual promised land. In other words, it's all about shadows versus substance:



2 Corinthians 4:18: "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."​


The book of Revelation deals with the final consummation of all biblical prophecy. In Revelation, we see the dissolution and uprooting of Old Covenant Israel out of her land and the vindication and planting of New Covenant Israel into her land.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,736
1,726
113
Additions


A further proof that "heaven and earth" refers to the covenants are the following verses. Everyone agrees that Hebrews 8:13 is speaking of the change from the old covenant to the new covenant. Now, compare the wording of this verse with two others. The wording is almost identical, except the term "covenant" is replaced with the terms "heaven and earth".

Hebrews 8:13, "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth oldis ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 1:10-11, "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;"

Isaiah 51:6, "Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment,"​

Also, the term "heaven and earth" can be seen to refer to the religious and civil state of Israel in Revelation 12:1-5, which speaks about the birth of Jesus Christ in literal Israel.

Revelation 12:1-5: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven (religious state of Israel); a woman (Mary)…and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (referring to the twelve tribes of Israel): And she being with child (Jesus) cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon…And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth (civil state of Israel): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (in Matthew 2:16, the civil government tried to slay baby Jesus). And she brought forth a man child (Jesus Christ), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne (the ascension in Acts 1:2)."
A good verse to see that the New Heaven and Earth refers to the New Jerusalem (implying the Old Heaven and Earth refers to the Old Jerusalem) is by comparing these two verses:

Isaiah 65:17, "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:"​
Now, just substitute the word "Jerusalem" where "heaven and earth" appear!!

Isaiah 65:18, "...for, behold, I create Jerusalem."​
Therefore, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 3:12; 21:2) is synonymous with the New Heaven and Earth!​
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We are free from the laws condemnation, and by grace Jesus gives us His righteousness.
But we are not told that the law no longer defines sin. we are told to be servents of righteousness.
If the law no longer applies how do we define righteousness and sin? The law must be still the same today as it was in the past. God does not change, and sin is the same today as it was in the past.
We do not put ourselves under the law because Jesus has taken care of the justice and penalty of the law, but we serve God (and the law) in love from thankfulness and with a desire to be like Jesus, (Jesus was righteous because He kept the law and did not sin).
You’re so close to the Truth but, you’re stumbling over The Lord being your Righteousness. Jesus Christ IS our Righteousness. We have NO righteousness apart from Him.

We are born again, a new creation in Christ Jesus unto good works. It is in our nature now to do good works and walk in obedience to God’s commandments in Jesus Christ.

However, our good works do NOT make us righteous, ONLY Jesus Christ’s Righteousness makes us righteous.

Our good works are evidence of our faith in Jesus Christ and our love for Him, we will receive rewards in Heaven.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,219
4,952
113
Before... until... until... Now...

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


When was the law put aside?
Take your pick. See the list of evidence below.

Question: When was the law put aside?

Answer:

- The law was put aside when John the Baptist arrived.

- The law was put aside when Christ arrived.

- The law was put aside at the Baptism of Christ.

- The law was put aside in the Sermon on the Mount.

- The law was put aside when Jesus was challenged by the religious leaders.

- The law was put aside when Jesus challenged the religious leaders.

- The law was put aside when God directed Jesus to do the work of healing on the Sabbath.

- The law was put aside when Jesus spoke to the Rich Young Ruler.

- The law was put aside at the Transfiguration of Christ.

- The law was put aside at the Death of Christ.

- The law was put aside at the Resurrection of Christ.

- The law was put aside on the road to Damascus.

- The law was put aside when Jesus commanded, or condoned acts of Sabbath-breaking.


“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-6‬ ‭

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,

but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not Moses words in the law , but Jesus words in the gospel
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,219
4,952
113
No.

The mosaic covenant has been done away with.

The law of Christ is still going, the Abrahamic covenant is still going, the Noah covenant is still going.
Amen It’s all About Abraham’s covenant of promise through Christ now for Christian’s because Christ is the seed of Abraham’s eternal covenant

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8-9, 16, 27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s all about a single inheritance now the promises to Abraham and the fulfillment through Christ the promised seed of Abraham Isaac Jacob david ect

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all those promises of Davids eternal
Kingdom to rule over all nations , is Abraham’s covenant further along to bless all people through Abraham’s seed Jesus is the seed of Abraham and Jacob Isaac and David ect

all covenants but for the mosaic law begin and end with Christ
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,021
223
63
When I married my wife almost 23 years ago, I made a covenant with her (and with God) to be her husband.
If I choose to not do the laundry, mow the lawn, go out on dates with her or any other expected duties of a husband, will I still be married? Yes.
Will either of us be very happy? No.

When I was saved from the penalties of sin by His mercy and grace, I made a covenant with God to be His bride.
If I choose to not do some of the things expected of me as a bride, will I still be married? Yes.
Will either of us be very happy? No.

The law was put aside for salvation. The law was not set aside for how to live practically as the bride.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,701
1,130
113
When I married my wife almost 23 years ago, I made a covenant with her (and with God) to be her husband.
If I choose to not do the laundry, mow the lawn, go out on dates with her or any other expected duties of a husband, will I still be married? Yes.
Will either of us be very happy? No.

When I was saved from the penalties of sin by His mercy and grace, I made a covenant with God to be His bride.
If I choose to not do some of the things expected of me as a bride, will I still be married? Yes.
Will either of us be very happy? No.

The law was put aside for salvation. The law was not set aside for how to live practically as the bride.
Matt! i apologize for the intrusion, just wanted to say i'm so pleased to see you again :)