Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

[reneweddaybyday]

Is Romans 10.11 referencing another scripture here?
I believe Roman 10.9-10 can be used as a great salvation tool ans long has verbal confession is made...with continued belief and confession

Is Rom 10.9-10 a "great salvation tool" for Jews only?


You keep inferring that Rom 9-11 is "speaking to the Jews" (Post #4) and "about the Jews and Pauls desire for the Jews to be saved….Paul stops taking about Gentiles in Romans 9.30" (Post #34).


It appears to me that you are saying that Rom 10.9-10 is not applicable to a gentile if a gentile does what the verses state. Please correct me if I misunderstand your point. Thanks.

 

[Meggido]

Is Rom 10.9-10 a "great salvation tool" for Jews only?


You keep inferring that Rom 9-11 is "speaking to the Jews" (Post #4) and "about the Jews and Pauls desire for the Jews to be saved….Paul stops taking about Gentiles in Romans 9.30" (Post #34).


It appears to me that you are saying that Rom 10.9-10 is not applicable to a gentile if a gentile does what the verses state. Please correct me if I misunderstand your point. Thanks.

Sorry, meant to say it is a great salvation tool for gentiles...my head was thinking way faster than my fingers could type...

 

[Angela53510]

Correct greek rendering but it is much deeper...Ginosko here in this passage reflect being one with someone....

The workers of iniquity were acquainted with Christ because they did things in his name and Christ had acquaintance with them or they would not be standing before him in Judgement...

Christ is saying you were not one with me....Think John 15 and abiding here...

Perhaps you need to put up a source for your knowledge of Greek, and how it applies to Matt. 7:23

Bauer, or BDAG, the 3rd edition, top lexicon in the world, has 7 definitions of yinoskw, (γινώσκω). Matt 7:23 is the 7th.

"Οὐδέποτε ἔγνων ὑμᾶς·" Matt. 7:23

7. To indicate that one does know, acknowledge, recognize that which is one claims to be to something.

"I have NEVER recognized you." Matt 7:23

In fact, oudepote, is very, very strong, and says that Jesus never knew them, ever!

Your definition is simply quite wrong. Reneweddaybyday is on the mark, and you, sir, are totally wrong!

Jesus, never had a relationship with them, in any way. Probably best if you stay away from the Greek Exegesis, until you learn a bit more, Meggido.

And, by the way, Matt 7:23 definitely supports the fact that Jesus never knew these people. So, no loss of salvation at all! Because, you cannot lose salvation which is a gift from God! Ever!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Sorry, meant to say it is a great salvation tool for gentiles...my head was thinking way faster than my fingers could type...

k. in agreement. Thanks for straightening me out.

I do agree we need to read this section in Romans with clarity (... actually all of Scripture ). But I love the message of Romans 10 and I use it to show people how to come to salvation.

 

[Meggido]

k. in agreement. Thanks for straightening me out.

I do agree we need to read this section in Romans with clarity (... actually all of Scripture ). But I love the message of Romans 10 and I use it to show people how to come to salvation.

Reading with clarity was my point but not very well articulated, its late here....good night

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

I know my first post in this thread was me being a smart-alec...but Hi, my name is Jon.

Seriously though, what's the question? Is there a question, or is this a condemnation/admonishment of other people? Sometimes I can't tell. All the scripture posted will make for a nice study session this weekend, but what is the question I am trying to answer?

 

[Veteran]

The will of the Father is that men would believe in Jesus.
John 6:40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son
and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Johnny, there are many other NT verses about what the will of God is.

 

[Veteran]

I believe God saved me and holds me in the palm of his hand! But, because he saved me, I must repent and obey him. A daily walk with him, being transformed into the image of Christ.

I pray you will find compassion for the lost, and share God's love with them!
That could be your real calling, not judging in the place of Jesus!

Women on Christian forums tend to focus on themselves and their walk.
This thread is NOT about you.

This thread is about warning the so-called believers who are NOT faithful,
who are living in habitual sin and think they are going to heaven.
It is about warning the so-called believers who need to REPENT of their sin(s).

Do you wish these people to be NOT warned?
Do you wish these people to just wait to be judged by Jesus?
How ludicrous!

 

[Veteran]

The word "know" in Matt 7:23 is the Greek word egnon (from ginṓskō)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon states: "negatively, in the sentence of Christ οὐδέποτε ἔγνων ὑμᾶς, I never knew you, never had any acquaintance with you, Matthew 7:23"
Strong's Greek: 1097. γινώσκω (ginóskó) -- to come to know, recognize, perceive

Yes, but please don't put all of your eggs in the baskets of the doctrines of men!
Jesus didn't write these concordances, word studies, lexicons, etc.
(BTW, Thayer was not a believer ... just a so-called expert in Greek).

IMO, we should ONLY put our faith in the Holy Spirit's revelations of what the NT means.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach us "all things" spiritual (John 14).

W. E. Vine also presents himself as a Greek expert.
And he insists that "knew" here means "to be approved of".

Did Jesus claim to be acquainted with anyone who He didn't approve of?

 

[Veteran]

Lot's of false doctrine comes when one conflates warnings to false converts as warnings to those who are true.

Problem is ... there are many NT verses which warn of LOSING eternal life.
Some of them are in the OP ... did you actually read through it?

FYI, many who think they know everything don't bother to.

 

[Veteran]

the will of the Father is believe in Jesus
and believe in Jesus mean
do the will of the Father
and the will of the Father is to love God and fellow human

Yes, Jesus said 3 times in John 14 (paraphrasing) ...
"IF you love Me, you will keep (obey) My commandments!"

Believers who do NOT think they need to obey Jesus' commandments to get to heaven
either are ignorant of this fact, or they simply refuse to be obedient and are hoping for the best.

 

[Veteran]

Is there a question, or is this a condemnation/admonishment of other people? Sometimes I can't tell. All the scripture posted will make for a nice study session this weekend, but what is the question I am trying to answer?

It is line 1 ... Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, but please don't put all of your eggs in the baskets of the doctrines of men!

So you can quote your source (W. E. Vine) and hold to his definition of the word, but when someone shows you another definition (which you disagree with), that person is putting all his/her "eggs in the baskets of the doctrines of men!"

???

Jesus didn't write these concordances, word studies, lexicons, etc.
(BTW, Thayer was not a believer ... just a so-called expert in Greek).

Joseph Henry Thayer, American biblical scholar, studied at the Boston Latin School and graduated from Harvard in 1850. Subsequently, he studied theology at the Harvard Divinity School, and graduated from Andover Theological Seminary in 1857. [SUP][1][/SUP]

He served as a minister in Quincy, in 1859–64 in Salem, Massachusetts, and in 1862–63 was chaplain of the 40th Massachusetts Volunteers during the American Civil War. He was professor of sacred literature at Andover Seminary in 1864–82, and in 1884 succeeded Ezra Abbot as Bussey Professor of New Testament Criticism and Interpretation at Harvard Divinity School. He died soon after his resignation from the Bussey professorship.[SUP] [1][/SUP]

Beginning in 1870, Thayer was a member of the American Bible Revision Committee and recording secretary of the New Testament company (working on the Revised Version). Thayer's chief works were his translation of Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (1886; revised 1889) as A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, and his New Testament Bibliography (1890).[SUP][1][/SUP] Thayer spent 25 years working on his Lexicon, and made thousands of revisions from Grimm's Wilke's Clavis.[SUP][2][/SUP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Henry_Thayer

IMO, we should ONLY put our faith in the Holy Spirit's revelations of what the NT means.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach us "all things" spiritual (John 14).

W. E. Vine also presents himself as a Greek expert.
And he insists that "knew" here means "to be approved of".

So are you going to allow the Holy Spirit to teach "all things" spiritual (John 14)?

Or are you going to have W. E. Vine teach you?

Did Jesus claim to be acquainted with anyone who He didn't approve of?

In Matthew 7:23 Jesus Christ tells the many I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus uses very strong words and says He never knew the many.

Your W. E. Vine states that the word "never" is the Greek word oudepote "from oude, "not even," and pote, "at any time," is used in definite negative statements, e.g., Mat 7:23 ... "

Vine, W. E. "Never", Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. Blue Letter Bible. 24 Jun, 1996 1 Sep 2017.
<http://www.blbclassic.org/search/Dictionary/viewtopic.cfm?topic=VT0001912>


In Matthew 7:23, Jesus tells many (who come to Him claiming that they had cast out devils in His name, and had done many wonderful works in His name) that He never knew them.

You want to change what Jesus meant to He never approved them based on what W. E. Vines claims? Have at it.

I will take Jesus at His words. He never knew these people. Period.

 

[sparkman]

Here's an idea! Rather than coming and condemning the saved, why don't you find a forum of the truly unsaved, atheists, or Muslims, or New Agers, and share this with them!

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" Romans 10:14

Too many people have never opened a Bible, those are the people you need to reach!

This is an interesting question...why do individuals here spend so much time trying to convince believers they are in deception on secondary issues, while people who are DEFINITELY not saved are yet to be reached?

By the way, I find it much more probable that those who are calling others wolves are wolves themselves. The Armstrongite organization constantly accused real Christians of being wolves, and counterfeit, Satanically led so-called Christians..yet who were the real wolves? Themselves. Deceived, but still wolves.

Another issue is the mentality that some have...God speaks closer to me than anyone else, and I hear his voice better than all of you. God has given me a special ministry to warn the church. I used to have a sense of self-importance like that. Thank God he has shown me I am one cell in the body, and wisdom won't cease when I am gone.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

It is line 1 ... Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?

That's why I asked what your question was. It reads like a challenge set forth by you to the rest of us.

 

[Angela53510]

Women on Christian forums tend to focus on themselves and their walk.
This thread is NOT about you.

This thread is about warning the so-called believers who are NOT faithful,
who are living in habitual sin and think they are going to heaven.
It is about warning the so-called believers who need to REPENT of their sin(s).

Do you wish these people to be NOT warned?
Do you wish these people to just wait to be judged by Jesus?
How ludicrous!

Hilarious! Because, if you knew me at all, you would know that I always give extensive Scriptures, and often in Greek or Hebrew to support my theology. Because often, the Greek really clears up the meaning of things which seem muddy in English.

However, sometimes God tells me to give a testimony, which can be very effective for the lost. You might not be aware, being a newbie, that the bottom of the page lists people who are reading this thread at any moment. Often, three times as many non-members as members are reading the threads, and many of those are probably not saved. This time, 1/3 more guests than members.

There are currently 10 users browsing this thread. (4 members and 6 guests)

And of course, not every member is saved. So, on a judgmental thread like this, I prefer to encourage people to follow Christ through a positive testimony.

I do promise in future, on your threads, I will only post the Bible. And in Greek and/or Hebrew, if needed. In fact, you seem to have missed this post.

Perhaps you need to put up a source for your knowledge of Greek, and how it applies to Matt. 7:23

Bauer, or BDAG, the 3rd edition, top lexicon in the world, has 7 definitions of yinoskw, (γινώσκω). Matt 7:23 is the 7th.

"Οὐδέποτε ἔγνων ὑμᾶς·" Matt. 7:23

7. To indicate that one does know, acknowledge, recognize that which is one claims to be to something.

"I have NEVER recognized you." Matt 7:23

In fact, Οὐδέποτε, oudepote, is very, very strong, and says that Jesus never knew them, ever!

Your definition is simply quite wrong. Reneweddaybyday is on the mark, and you, sir, are totally wrong!

Jesus, never had a relationship with them, in any way. Probably best if you stay away from the Greek Exegesis, until you learn a bit more, Meggido.

And, by the way, Matt 7:23 definitely supports the fact that Jesus never knew these people. So, no loss of salvation at all! Because, you cannot lose salvation which is a gift from God! Ever!

#43

I went to the best source material to confirm that Meggido is wrong in his Greek. Which doesn't surprise me, since he quoted no sources.

In any event, I do not believe God has called you to come and judge people you do not know, and say they are all living in sin, and have never repented. I do agree, if they have not repented, and continue to live a life disobedient to Scripture, they are not saved.

But, they were never saved in the first place.

" And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." 1 John 2:3-6

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

And just to make it easy for you, I always put English Scripture in red, and Greek and Hebrew in blue. I hope that helps!

 

[Laish]

Women on Christian forums tend to focus on themselves and their walk.
This thread is NOT about you.

This thread is about warning the so-called believers who are NOT faithful,
who are living in habitual sin and think they are going to heaven.
It is about warning the so-called believers who need to REPENT of their sin(s).

Do you wish these people to be NOT warned?
Do you wish these people to just wait to be judged by Jesus?
How ludicrous!

With all due respect " Women on Christian forums tend to focus on themselves and their walk.
This thread is NOT about you." ? Wow I can't believe you said that . Sir Get over your self!
Angela53510 is a dear sister in Christ to whom many respect . Your attitude is towards her is lacking. You condescending remarks show a lack of maturity for a man of your years . So why don't you put on your big boy pants an address folks without the childish remarks.
Blessings
Bill

 

[willybob]

organized Xianity/Chruchianity is the harlot beast Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation..It leads her followers back to the first beast humanism...Her foundation is money,and is built around a one man show which both are very anti-biblical.. if these were removed the whole thing would collapse in upon itself...Once money in any form is mixed with the gospel the first casualty is the truth. To keep the dollars rolling in they MUST coddle the flesh and make them feel comfortable and saved while still in their sin........

 

[posthuman]

Women on Christian forums tend to focus on themselves and their walk.
This thread is NOT about you.

This thread is about warning the so-called believers who are NOT faithful,
who are living in habitual sin and think they are going to heaven.
It is about warning the so-called believers who need to REPENT of their sin(s).

Do you wish these people to be NOT warned?
Do you wish these people to just wait to be judged by Jesus?
How ludicrous!

you sound so bitter - who is it you're really angry with?

isn't it principalities and powers of the air?

you know we'll be the judges of angels, right? in the appointed time.

 

[preacher4truth]

Women on Christian forums tend to focus on themselves and their walk.
This thread is NOT about you.

The thread seems to be about you.

This thread is about warning the so-called believers who are NOT faithful

How can an unbeliever be faithful, by changing behavior? What else would you expect? Are you herding goats??? You want unbelievers to be faithful? Wow.