He became sin...???

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shotgunner

Guest
#241
#241
Roberth said:
As I said, our sin nature wasn't His by divine right. He assumed us in our fallen condition in order to legally save us from under the law. The law of God had to be answered. Your corporate humanity had to meet two conditions:

1] Your corporate life had to be made obedient to God's law

2] But because your corporate life was polluted by the fall it had to die.

Both of these demands were answered in the doing & dying of Christ as the Son of God and the Son of Man.
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I wouldn't disagree with that, but that does not mean that Christ had sinful flesh all along before the cross. In fact if he did have sinful flesh then your (1) could not have been accomplished. All men before Christ had sinful flesh and so could not be obedient to God's law. If even one man could have been obedient simply by strong choice, then Jesus would not have had to pay the price himself. It was not possible for sinful flesh to be obedient simply by choice. No other could have ever been worthy to fulfill all the law except Jesus, the sinless one.
 
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oldthennew

Guest
#242
#242
Willie-T said:
No, "Thank you" for this answer. Considering the rather abrupt way I posted, you were more than gracious in your answer. I do apologize for not posting more benignly. I guess I am just getting accustomed to replying too sharply. I gotta work on that.
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PROVERBS 15:33.
The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

Willie, you have shined a Light in this place.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#243
#243
Roberth said:
I don't believe it states Adam was tempted to sin. Eve, says Paul, was deceived.

Sin is a mystery. How could sin come from a perfect being made in the image of God? There's no answer. The Bible calls this "the mystery of iniquity".
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Its clear Adam was tempted ..the Devil just used Eve...its still temptation !
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#244
#244
Mitspa said:
Did Adam have a "sin nature" before the fall? No ....was he tempted? Yes

The scriptures say the Lord was tempted as we are...as a man...not because He had a sin nature...you must reconcile all the scriptures ..and its clear He had no sin in Him.
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Was just reading some of yours and some others posts. I heard a better way to interpret the word "tempted" because Jesus was not tempted to sin, He didn't have a sinful nature that responded to the attraction to sin. A better word is 'tested' He was 'tested' in all points as we are but without sin.. that makes more sense since Jesus cannot be tempted with evil but can be tested for all to see Him come out with a score of 100% passed the tests that were thrown at Him.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#245
Oct 3, 2015
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#245
Mitspa said:
Its clear Adam was tempted ..the Devil just used Eve...its still temptation !
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How was Adam tempted to disobey God's command when he was made in the image and likeness of God? What part of him was tempted? He didn't have a fallen nature; his nature was in complete harmony with God's divine nature.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman....

Of course serpents can't talk. So something supernatural was taking place, and "yes" it was Satan using the snake as medium.

"Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,knowing good and evil." 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Notice both were at the tree.

Paul says, "Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning" 2 cor 11:3 Adam wasn't deceived perhaps because he wasn't hearing the conversation? He was with her, but maybe back out of hearing distance.

Nothing is said that they were tempted. Eve was deceived and Adam eat the fruit. Why? There's no answer. It would be speculation.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#246
#246
Roberth said:
How was Adam tempted to disobey God's command when he was made in the image and likeness of God? What part of him was tempted? He didn't have a fallen nature; his nature was in complete harmony with God's divine nature.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman....

Of course serpents can't talk. So something supernatural was taking place, and "yes" it was Satan using the snake as medium.

"Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,knowing good and evil." 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Notice both were at the tree.

Paul says, "Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning" 2 cor 11:3 Adam wasn't deceived perhaps because he wasn't hearing the conversation. He was with her, but maybe back out of hearing distance.

Nothing is said that they were tempted. Eve was deceived and Adam eat the fruit. Why? It would be speculation.
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Are you trying to suggest that Adam did not disobey God? He was tempted ...Yes "Eve" was first deceived and clearly she was used to tempt Adam. Your thought that Adam was not tempted is just to ignore the evident truth because the word "tempted" is not used. Was Eve sinless before she was tempted? My point still stands and is evident.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#247
Oct 3, 2015
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#247
shotgunner said:
I wouldn't disagree with that, but that does not mean that Christ had sinful flesh all along before the cross.
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Had sinful flesh? Sinful flesh means our humanity indwelt with iniquity (our bent-to-self). Christ didn't have anything. It wasn't His by divine right.

Does the Holy Spirit (who is God) have your sinful flesh? I mean as a believer He dwells in you! Does that make Him sinful? No! Neither did it makes Christ, as God, sinful to united Himself to our fallen life.


All men before Christ had sinful flesh and so could not be obedient to God's law.
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But Christ did obey....He, through the Spirit never sinned, not even by a thought.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#248
Oct 3, 2015
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#248
Mitspa said:
Are you trying to suggest that Adam did not disobey God?
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No, clearly they disobeyed.

He was tempted
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Where does it state that he was tempted? Eve was deceived, she wasn't tempted. All we know after that is she gave some to Adam. Most likely he saw that Eve didn't die, so he eat too. Why? Genesis doesn't give an answer.

We, on the other hand, are tempted because we have "indwelling sin"!
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#249
#249
Roberth said:


Had sinful flesh? Sinful flesh means our humanity indwelt with iniquity (our bent-to-self). Christ didn't have anything. It wasn't His by divine right.

Does the Holy Spirit (who is God) have your sinful flesh? I mean as a believer He dwells in you! Does that make Him sinful? No! Neither did it makes Christ, as God, sinful to united Himself to our fallen life.




But Christ did obey....He, through the Spirit never sinned, not even by a thought.
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This is kinda confusing ? So your saying Christ had sin in the flesh?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#250
#250
Roberth said:


No, clearly they disobeyed.



Where does it state that he was tempted? Eve was deceived, she wasn't tempted. All we know after that is she gave some to Adam. Most likely he saw that Eve didn't die, so he eat too. Why? Genesis doesn't give an answer.
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Its evident he was tempted...through Eve...did she make him eat? Did she force him to break Gods commandment? Or did Adam choose to disobey God to follow after Eve? If that not a "temptation" ? Im not sure you understand what the term means? So what if the word is not used?
 
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Roberth

Banned
#251
Oct 3, 2015
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#251
Mitspa said:
This is kinda confusing ? So your saying Christ had sin in the flesh?
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1] Christ is and has always been, God. Right?

2] At the incarnation God the Father took the Divinity of Christ and united it to our corporate life in the womb of Mary. By corporate life I mean the life we all share with father Adam.

3] So Christ didn't cease being God. He assumed our fallen life from Mary's womb. In so doing He also became "the son of man".

4] As the "son of man" Christ had to deal with temptation, not from His nature, but our nature. It was never His nature.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#252
Oct 3, 2015
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#252
Mitspa said:
Its evident he was tempted...
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It doesn't say that. You are adding to the Genesis account.

From your perspective, having a fallen nature, "yes" I could understand your argument, but neither of them had a nature to tempt them. So they couldn't' have been tempted.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#253
#253
Roberth said:


It doesn't say that. You are adding to the Genesis account.

From your perspective, having a fallen nature, "yes" I could understand your argument, but neither of them had a nature to tempt them. So they couldn't' have been tempted.
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Your allowed to use your brain when you read the bible ....of course they was tempted..don't be ridicules ...if you want folks to take you serious here on this forum? Your have to have some evidence that your trying to discuss biblical issues in truth.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#254
Oct 3, 2015
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#254
The following had grammatical errors. This is a correction:

Does the Holy Spirit (who is God) have your sinful flesh? I mean as a believer He dwells in you! Does that make Him sinful? No! Neither did it make Christ, as God, sinful to unite Himself to our fallen life.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#255
#255
Roberth said:
1] Christ is and has always been, God. Right?

2] At the incarnation God the Father took the Divinity of Christ and united it to our corporate life in the womb of Mary. By corporate life I mean the life we all share with father Adam.

3] So Christ didn't cease being God. He assumed our fallen life from Mary's womb. In so doing He also became "the son of man".

4] As the "son of man" Christ had to deal with temptation, not from His nature, but our nature. It was never His nature.
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Again are you saying Christ had sin in the flesh? ...you sound like your not sure what you believe?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#256
#256
Roberth said:
The following had grammatical errors. This is a correction:

Does the Holy Spirit (who is God) have your sinful flesh? I mean as a believer He dwells in you! Does that make Him sinful? No! Neither did it make Christ, as God, sinful to unite Himself to our fallen life.
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Has more errors than just grammer..you don't seem to have much understanding of what basis the Holy Spirit makes His home in the believer?
 
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Roberth

Banned
#257
Oct 3, 2015
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#257
Mitspa said:
Your allowed to use your brain when you read the bible ....of course they was tempted..don't be ridicules ..
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I disagree.

Yes, you and I are tempted from within. The Bible states this.

Temptation to sin (disobedience) can't happen in sinless beings. Something else is at play that God has not revealed. That's why the Bible calls this "the mystery of iniquity"!
 
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Roberth

Banned
#258
Oct 3, 2015
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#258
Mitspa said:
Has more errors than just grammer..you don't seem to have much understanding of what basis the Holy Spirit makes His home in the believer?
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Gal 5:17 For the flesh (our nature) lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other"

Both of these things are going on in the believer. The Spirit of God dwells in you and so does your nature. They are coexisting. Does that make the the Holy Spirit, sinful?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#259
#259
Roberth said:


I disagree.

Yes, you and I are tempted from within. The Bible states this.

Temptation to sin (disobedience) can't happen in sinless beings. Something else is at play that God has not revealed. That's why the Bible calls this "the mystery of iniquity"!
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That's just your opinion and your clearly wrong...as Adam and Eve and the Lord prove... I don't think you understand much about the mystery when you cannot even admit Adam and Eve was tempted... Im sorry but that is just error from a spirit of error.

so why did Adam and Eve disobey God...what was the serpent doing there if not tempting them to disobey God?
 
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