He became sin...???

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James47

James47

Room Moderator
Staff member
#483
Mar 6, 2015
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#483
Good to see logic and not hype or presumption, well done well defended.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#484
Oct 3, 2015
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#484
Mitspa said:
No Christ took our sin on the Cross, He did not have indwelling sin...that's the gospel. A perfect, sinless Sacrifice
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How did "sin" (which isn't a tangible object) get on Christ? That makes no sense, none!!!
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#485
Oct 3, 2015
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#485
James 1:14 "...each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death."

Mark 7:21 "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts...."

All men are tempted by their own desire. These cravings or desires come from within. That's how men are tempted.

The Bible states that Jesus was tempted as we are, yet without sin.

He never yielded to temptation; therefore He lived a perfect life in the flesh.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#486
#486
Roberth said:
James 1:14 "...each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death."

Mark 7:21 "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts...."

All men are tempted by their own desire. These cravings or desires come from within. That's how men are tempted.

The Bible states that Jesus was tempted as we are, yet without sin.

He never yielded to temptation; therefore He lived a perfect life in the flesh.
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Yes its says He was tempted apart from sin..that He knew no sin, in Him is no sin.... He was tempted in that He was a man as we are as adam was and was tempted , not that He had sin in the flesh.


2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#488
#488
Roberth said:
How did "sin" (which isn't a tangible object) get on Christ? That makes no sense, none!!!
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Yes "sin" is a spiritual force...noun

Ro 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

and nothing in the spiritual realm is tangible ..unless it manifest some way
 
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R

Roberth

Banned
#490
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#490
Mitspa said:
Yes its says He was tempted apart from sin..that He knew no sin, in Him is no sin.... He was tempted in that He was a man as we are as adam was and was tempted , not that He had sin in the flesh.
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Nothing states Adam, before the fall, was tempted. That's your addition to Scripture.

Again, how can a sinless being, in the image and likeness of God, indwelt only by the divine nature, be tempted to sin?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#491
#491
Roberth said:
Nothing states Adam, before the fall, was tempted. That's your addition to Scripture.

Again, how can a sinless being, in the image and likeness of God, indwelt only by the divine nature, be tempted to sin?
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Yes Adam and Eve was clearly tempted by the serpent....any honest person can understand that.

Have you read "turn this stone into bread" does that sound like a temptation made to a sinful man or a perfect man who had a divine nature?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#492
#492
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 
R

Roberth

Banned
#493
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#493
Mitspa said:
Yes Adam and Eve was clearly tempted by the serpent....any honest person can understand that.
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The text doesn't state that Adam and Eve were tempted. Eve was deceived, Adam wasn't. Why wan't Adam deceived? Because he wasn't the one that spoke with the serpent. After Eve fell under sin, she gave Adam the fruit and he eat. The Genesis account doesn't explain why Adam eat the fruit of the tree. It couldn't have been temptation because there was plenty of food in the garden.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#495
#495
Roberth said:
The text doesn't state that Adam and Eve were tempted. Eve was deceived, Adam wasn't. Why wan't Adam deceived? Because he wasn't the one that spoke with the serpent. After Eve fell under sin, she gave Adam the fruit and he eat. The Genesis account doesn't explain why Adam eat the fruit of the tree. It couldn't have been temptation because there was plenty of food in the garden.
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So when the snake deceived eve to do what God commanded her not to do and then Adam disobeyed God as well ...that's not temptation to you? Of course it is and any honest person who knows the bible understands that.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#496
#496
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So the Word became flesh.... full of grace and truth....knew no sin...yet some want to claim He had sin in the flesh?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#497
#497
Roberth said:
Repeating the same old, out of context verses, proves nothing.
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It proves exactly what it says..since when does Gods evident words not prove anything..except to those who reject it?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#498
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
7
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#498
Mitspa said:
So when the snake deceived eve to do what God commanded her not to do and then Adam disobeyed God as well ...that's not temptation to you? .
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Yes, to me that's temptation, but that's because I have a nature that loves to rebel. I have a nature that is opposed to God and His law. That wasn't true with Adam and Eve. So please tell me, since you seem to know everything, how can a sinless being, in the image and likeness of God, indwelt only by the divine nature, be tempted to sin?
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#499
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
169
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#499
Roberth said:
Yes, to me that's temptation, but that's because I have a nature that loves to rebel. I have a nature that is opposed to God and His law. That wasn't true with Adam and Eve. So please tell me, since you seem to know everything, how can a sinless being, in the image and likeness of God, indwelt only by the divine nature, be tempted to sin?
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The interesting point here is your construction of concepts.
As a human we have inbuilt systems for agression, fear, sexual attraction, empathy etc. Because a particular response is stimulated this does not mean it is appropriate or helpful. In our development we can choose which things in our brain we encourage and which we discourage. For instance it can be shown playing the piano or violin changes our brain structure.

So Jesus could have chosen to respond inappropriately, but He chose not to. The temptation of Jesus was real, or else there was no point to it.

There is a clear distinction between the Father and the Son. To tempt the Father would be insane and impossible, as temptation is by its nature without ultimate purpose because it leads to the destruction of things, whereas dealing with things appropriately leads to growth and success.

So the argument being put forward is just not real or biblical.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#500
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#500
Roberth said:
...how can a sinless being, in the image and likeness of God, indwelt only by the divine nature, be tempted to sin?
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In fact let's take a step back long before Adam & Eve. His name? Lucifer:

Es 28:12 “You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering...The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

God created Lucifer as the seal of perfection. He created him perfect in every thing, until iniquity (indwelling sin) was found in him.

Lucifer wasn't tempted. He was perfect, until iniquity was found in him. IT was then that he was tempted to take God's place. That's the sin of coveting:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...[Is 14:12-13]

Conclusion: Lucifer wasn't tempted until iniquity was found in him! Then he became Satan, the adversary.
 
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