He said he was Jesus Christ and his wife said she was God the Father

[AgeofKnowledge]

Marshall Applewhite came saying he was Jesus Christ and his wife Bonnie Nettles said she was God the Father. Marshall would look young adults in the eyes and say as convincly as he could that they needed to trust that He WAS Jesus Christ, that he had the mind of Jesus Christ Jesus Christ had come down and He was Jesus Christ in the old container of Marshall Applewhite. He used scripture to argue his position as best he could to get young adults to trust him. Youtube has it and you can watch video of him looking right at the camera and saying it as carefully as possible. This was the Heaven's Gate cult. As the young people became indoctrinated by this man who was a mental patient before he decided he was Jesus Christ, they did things like go to Mexico and have parts of their body removed and finally the terrible ending we all read about.

Here's a clear indication of why cults are a bad thing friends. I know some of you believe everyone finds salvation in Jesus Christ no matter what they do or what they believe despite Jesus and the apostles saying:

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ." (2 Cor 11:13)

"He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." (Matt 12:30)
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all …” (1 Timothy 2:5)

“There is one body and one Spirit … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” (Ephesians 4:4)

“I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and find pasture … I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” (John 10:9)

“I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” (John 11:25)

Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” (John 8:12)

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24)

“… And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; He who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” (1 John 5:11)

and much more.

Jesus said, "For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many." -Matthew 24:5 and that's exactly what we see in so many cults today.

They all claim to have special revelation that contradicts an accurate historical telling of scripture. They all attack Christians who tell them they are wrong and take verses intended for themselves and apply them to the authentic Christians who hold to historical Christianity.

2 Corinthians 11:4, Paul says, "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."

Just some food for thought. If you were raised in a cult or are following a cult leader, you might want to rethink what you have been taught rather than go around teaching others it.

Consider what Paul said:

"I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." (2 Cor 11:9-15)

The cults are out there teaching many inaccurate things. God loves everyone and wants everyone to come to a knowledge of the truth. But spiritual warfare is real and people become deceived and just won't adhere to sound doctrine.

We talk about these things so people won't be deceived nor unawares but will be aware and won't fall into the error of cults.

To the extent you have been taught something different than the authentic historical Christian revelation as imparted by Jesus and the Apostles to the early church fathers by a Christian or non-Christian sect or a cult then that is the extent of error you need to repent from.

God bless you in that. We all love you and pull for those caught in error. Peace and may He lead you into all truth and wisdom and bring all cult members out of all deceipt to whatever extent they were taught it. Now that IS God's will for everyone. To be in the truth. Amen.

 

[Ricke]

AOK
I agree there are many cults and false teachers in the world.
And not trying to resurrect the Oneness vs Trinity thread, but you also have accused UPCI and Oneness as a "cult" with no proof except the accusations of people you quote off the internet, or Early Church " Fathers" who came after The Original Apostles died etc.

We must be careful about whom we accuse of being a "cult" I agree David Koresh and his Waco group were a cult, Jim Jones in Guyana another Cult. Etc. notice these and others did not have a worldwide following. They were relegated to a small area. The Pentecostal Churches are worldwide with millions of followers. Teaching Oneness is worldwide.. Beleivers are worldwide.
Just because one group does not agree with another group doesn't' make the other group a cult, because you or someone else does not understand or disagree with the teachings.

Does every Church sing and play music the same way? See what I am saying.? I could list every Church for every fault I see in them most especially The TrinitArian Religion I came out of. I will let God be their Judge. Nothing is accomplished when we pick and argue. It turns others off.....

 

[giantone]

My pastor made a comment on counterfeit money the other Sunday. he said the people who handle money allot can many times just pick up a dollar bill and know it is fake. The reason for this is they are constantly exposed to the true money and can discern the fake as a result.

We are to be exposed to the truth allot (the Word of God) then it will be much easier to detect the fake when we encounter it.

It is interesting Jesus says narrow is the way and few find the way to Heaven then right after goes on to talk about wolves in sheep's clothing. There is too much fake currency goin around.

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Ricke]

Giantone

Like what you said; let me throw in my nickel's worth;

Good comparison regarding Fake money and how we can detect it. When it comes to God's Word it is a different story however. First we are taught to "try the Spirits see if they're of God" The devil is called an"Angel of Light" who can make evil to appear good.

Another verse declares; "There is a way which seemed RIGHT unto a man, but are of Death.

When it comes to understanding scripture and what is Fake, and what is sound Doctrine , Takes full commitment by any individual unto God. He....is the only one who teach someone his Mysteries (Luke 24 v 45). You can have a Phd from Harvard, be a Rhodes Scholar, and have studied The Bible day and night; but if God does'nt see you as one of his...then you are a Spiritual Reprobate.

Man's Wisdom is Foolishness with God. Read how he dressed down Brother Job in The last Chapter of Job..we are like 2 year olds compared to God's Wisdom.

That is why I have witnessed People with an Eighth Grade Education talk Circles around some Slick talking Preacher with
2 College degrees.

 

[phil36]

Hi AOK,

That was good and informative post, thanks for that. It does show we are easily hoodwinked, and sometimes not with blatant lies, but with the craftiness and subtle lies like the serpent in the garden.

Certainly narrow is the gate, and many will be lost at the end, even though they say they have professed Christ.

I love your anology of money Giantone, I work with money, and believe me you can usually tell a fake straight away, and the reason is because I handle it all the time, but, I will add on 2 occasions a couple near slipped through the net because of the quality of the forgery, it is like lies that are based on truth.

To help us spot these forgerys we need to daily take in the truth of scripture. Those great christians down the centuries have spotted these sort of things. And so should we.

I read a study recently, that there is an alarming rate of biblical illiteracy amongst professings christians. No wonder christians are having problems distinguishing between truth and falsehoods.

Anyhow, great post AOK

Blessings

Phil

 

[Devolution]

Yes AOK i agree, but i will go one step further, though many will disagree. Rev6: 2 : And i saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. White symbolises righteousness, crown is authority, the bow is warfare. So here we have a righteous appearing movement with authority in the world, going out and conquering in that 'name'. Religion by force. Sound familiar? Lets disregard the early churches that fled to Turkey for now, those spoken of in the letters of Revelation, who mind you, by that said revelation, were already becoming corrupted. And that was back then !! No need argue those letters and their ongoing relevancy for all following generations. For i am aware of that point. So in 338 ad or thereabouts, a certain woman became interested in christianity, in particular the mystical side of it, of which she focused, and she sent out in her name relic hunters hoping to find objects eg nails that were used in the crucifiction etc, for their apparent mystical powers. Her son happened to be a very powerful man. His name was Constantine. The emperor. He too started believing. Catholicism was born. The new religion mixed with elements of Roman paganism, eg idol worship using crosses, images of Christ on the cross, saint worship, all big no no's. Example : Deut 4 : 15-16 : Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude ( His form/appearance) on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of ANY figure; the likeness of Male or Female. So ALL objects/images, being statues, crosses..anything used in a spiritual manner is akin to corrupting oneself. ANY FIGURE. That covers pretty much all christian religions today, since the cross is their symbol. Ive seen for myself people believing they aren't protected when not wearing the cross. Their faith is then in that cross. Idol worship !! So Catholicism bacame Rome's national religion. The attempt by Constantine to abolish their paganistic Saturnalia celebrations did not go down well. So to cut a long story short, they merely renamed it and moved it to december. Here is christmas. Another big no no. See Jeremiah 10: 1-5. Also note: God is NOT mixed with mammon. I am aware this custom was already practiced earlier in Turkey (take note of the Nicolatianes), but it all ties in together. I Am NOT a J.W either, nor ever taught by any institution. So christmas is another no no which 95% of christians celebrate.. which Christ hates. Back to my point, eventually, as catholicism spread to other nations as the 'true' authority in God's name, it was used as an exuse to invade, and indeed was the reason at times, to subdue other nations for to liberate the heathens and open their eyes to 'their' truth, forced onto any nation conquered by those nations practising it eg : Spain etc. Conquered peoples were being forced to accept this 'new way' they preached or payed the penalty. Religion by force. The white horse. Besides Anglicans, Some time later a certain man by the name of Martin Luther broke away from catholicism. Pentacostals were born. This fracturing and dividing from that main catholic branch continued and continues today giving us all our mainstream 'christian' religions that call out and reach MANY. Note: If the root is rotten (catholicism) how much more the tree =The daughters of that religion. Man has religion, God has truth. Matt 24: 5 : For MANY will come in MY NAME (christians), saying, I am Christ (oh we're the true church) ; and shall deceive MANY. Churches are in the prime position to deceive MANY. Cults reach limited numbers in general, with a few exceptions. So without writing a novel as im starting to here, we should all look at what we're taught. Because satan has deceived the WHOLE WORLD. He uses divide and conquer tacticts to his enemies, who is his enemy? Christ is. So who is he dividing? Rev 12: 13 & v 17. Dual meaning here. Woman= church, women, like churches, give birth (indoctrinate) and spread. v17 seed= followers. Notice SEED not SEEDS. We have many seeds=religions. 2Corinth 11: 13-15 there you go, satan & his demons are preaching christianity, a very clever though corrupted version, but christianity nevertheless. Divide and conquer. I'm not attacking you or anyone else.Just food for thought. Or something you can mock. Up to you. But time is short.

 

[Ricke]

Devolution

Amen and Amen Brother! As someone who was raised and educated in that Church, I know what you are saying and totally agree. Notice with The man on the White Horse he has a "bow" but no arrows? Because theybuse other Nations to defend them, he doesn't't need his own Military. The Bow he carrys Is the crucifix he carries, The one with the long pole-like Crucifix. Notice at the top it is Bowed slightly.? Amen.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Yes AOK i agree, but i will go one step further, though many will disagree. Rev6: 2 : And i saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. White symbolises righteousness, crown is authority, the bow is warfare. So here we have a righteous appearing movement with authority in the world, going out and conquering in that 'name'. Religion by force. Sound familiar?
Your conclusion does not follow. First, there is no mention of doing it in anyone's name. Second you have missed the obvious connection with the four Horsemen in Zechariah.
Lets disregard the early churches that fled to Turkey for now, those spoken of in the letters of Revelation, who mind you, by that said revelation, were already becoming corrupted. And that was back then !! No need argue those letters and their ongoing relevancy for all following generations.
"All scripture is profitable." Your statement is only to set up what follows.
For i am aware of that point. So in 338 ad or thereabouts, a certain woman became interested in christianity, in particular the mystical side of it, of which she focused, and she sent out in her name relic hunters hoping to find objects eg nails that were used in the crucifiction etc, for their apparent mystical powers. Her son happened to be a very powerful man. His name was Constantine. The emperor. He too started believing. Catholicism was born. The new religion mixed with elements of Roman paganism, eg idol worship using crosses, images of Christ on the cross, saint worship, all big no no's. Example : Deut 4 : 15-16 : Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude ( His form/appearance) on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of ANY figure; the likeness of Male or Female. So ALL objects/images, being statues, crosses..anything used in a spiritual manner is akin to corrupting oneself. ANY FIGURE. That covers pretty much all christian religions today, since the cross is their symbol.
Your argument is backwards. Even in the tabernacle, built according to God's command, there were images. The existance of any image does not equate. Have you stripped your home of photographs, television, calendars, magazines, picture books? Of course not. Even when you turn on your computer, an image comes up. One the other hand, one could do so and still commit idolatry.
Ive seen for myself people believing they aren't protected when not wearing the cross. Their faith is then in that cross. Idol worship !! So Catholicism bacame Rome's national religion. The attempt by Constantine to abolish their paganistic Saturnalia celebrations did not go down well. So to cut a long story short, they merely renamed it and moved it to december. Here is christmas. Another big no no. See Jeremiah 10: 1-5. Also note: God is NOT mixed with mammon.
Do you know what mammon is?
I am aware this custom was already practiced earlier in Turkey (take note of the Nicolatianes), but it all ties in together. I Am NOT a J.W either, nor ever taught by any institution. So christmas is another no no which 95% of christians celebrate.. which Christ hates. Back to my point, eventually, as catholicism spread to other nations as the 'true' authority in God's name, it was used as an exuse to invade, and indeed was the reason at times, to subdue other nations for to liberate the heathens and open their eyes to 'their' truth, forced onto any nation conquered by those nations practising it eg : Spain etc. Conquered peoples were being forced to accept this 'new way' they preached or payed the penalty. Religion by force. The white horse.
What is it that you are doing here? You are trying to use fear to convert persons. You are using the same methodologies that you claim to abhor.

Besides Anglicans, Some time later a certain man by the name of Martin Luther broke away from catholicism. Pentacostals were born.
You are missing about four hundred years of history, and your knowledge of the reformation is non-existant
This fracturing and dividing from that main catholic branch continued and continues today giving us all our mainstream 'christian' religions that call out and reach MANY. Note: If the root is rotten (catholicism) how much more the tree =The daughters of that religion. Man has religion, God has truth. Matt 24: 5 : For MANY will come in MY NAME (christians), saying, I am Christ (oh we're the true church) ; and shall deceive MANY. Churches are in the prime position to deceive MANY.
Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." Either the church continues to be God's chosen instrament, or God's will is thwarted, or Jesus misspoke.
Cults reach limited numbers in general, with a few exceptions. So without writing a novel as im starting to here, we should all look at what we're taught. Because satan has deceived the WHOLE WORLD. He uses divide and conquer tacticts to his enemies, who is his enemy? Christ is. So who is he dividing? Rev 12: 13 & v 17. Dual meaning here. Woman= church, women, like churches, give birth (indoctrinate) and spread. v17 seed= followers. Notice SEED not SEEDS. We have many seeds=religions.
This part is completely incomprehensible.
2Corinth 11: 13-15 there you go, satan & his demons are preaching christianity, a very clever though corrupted version, but christianity nevertheless. Divide and conquer. I'm not attacking you or anyone else.Just food for thought. Or something you can mock. Up to you. But time is short.

I think that you have some valid ideas but they are colored by your anti-church slant.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Harold Camping's Heresies EXPOSED!
By David J. Stewart
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." —Matthew 7:15​

Harold Camping (pictured to the right) is a false prophet! The following are just a few of his false doctrines that have been taught, and that you would hear live on his heretical "Family" Radio.

1. Harold Camping proclaimed the Lord's return would be in 1994!
2. Harold Camping now proclaims the Lord's return will be in October, 20, 2011!
3. Harold Camping (Family Radio) has aired Mormon advertisements!
4. Harold Camping taught that NO ONE was saved between 1988 through 1994!
5. Harold Camping teaches that the church age ended in 1994!
6. Harold Camping teaches that the Holy Spirit is NO LONGER working in the church!
7. Harold Camping teaches that EVERY church in the world is apostate!

Clearly, Harold Camping is NOT a true Christian, and has fabricated his own cult. Please read, Religion: The Occult Connection. The Word of God must be our Final Authority, and not the traditions and lies of men.

Harold Camping's Heresies EXPOSED!

​

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I just thought I would share that with the forum. I like they expose Harold's false prophecies and I can only imagine the plight of people who sold everything and gave it away and live in utter poverty today with families broken up amongst relatives because of the false prophecy of the end of the world he made and the many heresies that are misleading so many who fall under his teaching.

Here's a lot more: Articles opposed to the Depart out Teachings of Harold Camping

I think we can safely leave whether or not he personally is saved or not in the hands of God but we should refute him for what he is: a false prophet who teaches gross heresies.

P.S. as of this post only 294 days 7 hours and 48 minutes remain until the end of the world says Harold Camping *rolls eyes*... his second attempt at predicting the end of the world.

 

[Consumed]

Moses said to the people , come up the mountain meet with God, they said no no no, you go, whatever He says we will do, so Moses goes up, they built a golden calf. (paraphrased)

Still to this day, if we dont go up the mountain, have a personal relationship with God, we build golden calfs, itchy ears etc etc

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Moses said to the people , come up the mountain meet with God, they said no no no, you go, whatever He says we will do, so Moses goes up, they built a golden calf. (paraphrased)

Still to this day, if we dont go up the mountain, have a personal relationship with God, we build golden calfs, itchy ears etc etc

Sometimes, one thing leads to another and before we know it we are with Aaron saying, "I threw it in the fire and it came out a calf."

 

[mpaper345]

I have noticed some things observing the different denominations.

I have noticed that the UPCI stresses living a holy lifestyle like Jesus more than any other denomination,and I have noticed that their lifestyle seems to on the side of loving goodness more than any other denomination.

It is strange that people will call the UPCI a cult but they hold unto being holy as Jesus is holy more than any other denomination.

I have seen Catholics and many were hypocritical.

I have seen baptists and many were hypocritical.

I have seen apostolic pentecostals but fewer hypocrites,by far fewer,than any other denomination.

It is strange that people will call the UPCI a cult but they are closer to behaving like Jesus than any other denomination.

How can a denomination like UPCI be a cult when they act more like Jesus than any other denomination and stress living like Jesus than any other denomination.

Matt

 

[Consumed]

sorry, who is UPCI?? - im not sure who your referring to - dont think ive heard that - is it a denomination ???

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I have noticed some things observing the different denominations.

I have noticed that the UPCI stresses living a holy lifestyle like Jesus more than any other denomination,and I have noticed that their lifestyle seems to on the side of loving goodness more than any other denomination.

It is strange that people will call the UPCI a cult but they hold unto being holy as Jesus is holy more than any other denomination.

I have seen Catholics and many were hypocritical.

I have seen baptists and many were hypocritical.

I have seen apostolic pentecostals but fewer hypocrites,by far fewer,than any other denomination.

It is strange that people will call the UPCI a cult but they are closer to behaving like Jesus than any other denomination.

How can a denomination like UPCI be a cult when they act more like Jesus than any other denomination and stress living like Jesus than any other denomination.

Matt

My experiences with the UPCI and Apostolic Faith have largely been of three types:
1. Them trying to convince me or someone under my care that they fall short of full salvation because they haven't had the proper baptism or haven't spoken in tongues or cut their hair (for women) or wear pants (again, for women) or smoke or have been divorced or [insert rule here].
2. UPCI or Apostolic Faith members who are thinking about getting out of the denomination and whose lives are under strict control, sometimes by peer pressure and sometimes by stricter control.
3. Former UPCI or Apostaolic Faith members who are being shunned.
I have been love bombed several times by UPCI or Apostolic Faith members, but normally that goes away when I refuse to be rebaptised. Some continue friendship, but it is not the same.

 

[Devolution]

Hello charisenexcelis, we obviously disagree on certain points, i accept that, let me clarify a few things concerning my post. First the four horses of Zechariah. The black horses go into the north countries, the white follow after them. The grisled go south and the bay walk to and fro throughout the earth. So the grisled go south??? But the grisled horse of rev is NOT grisled (reddish brown) IT IS RED & it takes peace from THE WHOLE WORLD. You must have missed that? 6: 8 :Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my soul. These events have already occured. And in no way even appear in the same vein of revelations,. These are not the horsemen of Rev. That information (the seals) was given to John for the revelations. Zechariah was not given that vision. Daniel was given certain prophecies also, and those prophecies were concerning the last days aswell. What did God do to that information? He SEALED it till the last days in a book. What did the Lamb take from the Fathers hand? A SEALED BOOK (little book). What did He do when He received that book? He opened it. Who was that open book then given to? John ! What did John write? Revelations. Where are the four horsemen? In revelations. So that information was SEALED. So it is impossible to be Zechariah's four horses. So no, i did not forget that point.Search it please again.

Concerning images & idols. I wont argue that point. I believe God's word are quite clear on that point. He may have His images if He wishes, for His ways are perfect and pure. His uses of His images are totally different than our uses. His arent prayed with or at. Our images & their purposes however are a different story.

Mammon. I may have used that title loosely. I am learning that on this site one has to be precise. Mammon is material things, worldly things. My point was that God's ways don't mix with mans worldly ways & beliefs. I should have been clearer.

The churches. I need not add in those 4 hundred odd years you mention that i missed. My point was that from the emergence of catholicism since 338 AD, fracturing & new religions have emerged left right and centre, that said church being the forerunner. Christ tells us the churches in turkey were already then being corrupted. How much more so now!! Can you argue against that?

You greatly err on Christs statement of, 'Upon this rock... ' , Christs church isnt all these worldly churches, nor that of yours im sorry to say. His church suffered persecution and was eventually scattered. In their place eventually arrived 'churches' as we see them today. His Church is established when His 1st Kingdom is heralded in here on earth. So if His church is established when He comes, and as is written, Truth will finally fill the earth, so then, what have these churches we see been preaching these last two thousand years??? Their word has reached the ends of the earth too. But Christ said truth will be preached on His return. You'd do well to ponder on that my friend. What is inconprehensable concerning christians being satans enemies? You are a pastor. Could you not see my point?? The apostles were clear. Deceivers were coming ! To deceive MANY. Only churches can fulfill this. And do.

My Anti church slant. Yes i am against every established christian church/religion preaching today. The 'establishments' that is, not the people in them, they are merely deceived & i pray for them. These establishments appear holy on the outside. Many indeed may have good intentions. But good intentions are not truth. ANd any teaching that contradicts truth is sin. God is not the preacher of sin (error). I will make one point that should cover many others if looked at truthfully. Jeremiah 10:1-5 is christmas, not as it was then in its early stages mentioned in Jere,, but has evolved into what we see today. v1 tells us, Learn NOT the ways of the heathen... So if all these churches celebrate this event, then they are disobeying God. If they disobey Him on this, what else are they disobeying? If they can't see this simple thing, how can they see the deeper things? I have explained myself as briefly as i could. If you want to debate God's views on all the shepherds & preachers & scholars & learned men, then i have a mountain of prophecies & warnings that a very angry God is giving concerning them. He is not happy. Very very angry with them ALL. And they dwell in todays churches/religions. Everyone should listen. He is really PISSED. So its not just me. Its my Lord. So in reality, your problem is with HIM not me.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Hello charisenexcelis, we obviously disagree on certain points, i accept that, let me clarify a few things concerning my post. First the four horses of Zechariah. The black horses go into the north countries, the white follow after them. The grisled go south and the bay walk to and fro throughout the earth. So the grisled go south??? But the grisled horse of rev is NOT grisled (reddish brown) IT IS RED & it takes peace from THE WHOLE WORLD. You must have missed that? 6: 8 :Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my soul. These events have already occured. And in no way even appear in the same vein of revelations,. These are not the horsemen of Rev. That information (the seals) was given to John for the revelations. Zechariah was not given that vision. Daniel was given certain prophecies also, and those prophecies were concerning the last days aswell. What did God do to that information? He SEALED it till the last days in a book. What did the Lamb take from the Fathers hand? A SEALED BOOK (little book). What did He do when He received that book? He opened it. Who was that open book then given to? John ! What did John write? Revelations. Where are the four horsemen? In revelations. So that information was SEALED. So it is impossible to be Zechariah's four horses. So no, i did not forget that point.Search it please again.


Concerning images & idols. I wont argue that point. I believe God's word are quite clear on that point. He may have His images if He wishes, for His ways are perfect and pure. His uses of His images are totally different than our uses. His arent prayed with or at. Our images & their purposes however are a different story.

Mammon. I may have used that title loosely. I am learning that on this site one has to be precise. Mammon is material things, worldly things. My point was that God's ways don't mix with mans worldly ways & beliefs. I should have been clearer.

The churches. I need not add in those 4 hundred odd years you mention that i missed. My point was that from the emergence of catholicism since 338 AD, fracturing & new religions have emerged left right and centre, that said church being the forerunner. Christ tells us the churches in turkey were already then being corrupted. How much more so now!! Can you argue against that?

You greatly err on Christs statement of, 'Upon this rock... ' , Christs church isnt all these worldly churches, nor that of yours im sorry to say. His church suffered persecution and was eventually scattered. In their place eventually arrived 'churches' as we see them today. His Church is established when His 1st Kingdom is heralded in here on earth. So if His church is established when He comes, and as is written, Truth will finally fill the earth, so then, what have these churches we see been preaching these last two thousand years??? Their word has reached the ends of the earth too. But Christ said truth will be preached on His return. You'd do well to ponder on that my friend. What is inconprehensable concerning christians being satans enemies? You are a pastor. Could you not see my point?? The apostles were clear. Deceivers were coming ! To deceive MANY. Only churches can fulfill this. And do.

My Anti church slant. Yes i am against every established christian church/religion preaching today. The 'establishments' that is, not the people in them, they are merely deceived & i pray for them. These establishments appear holy on the outside. Many indeed may have good intentions. But good intentions are not truth. ANd any teaching that contradicts truth is sin. God is not the preacher of sin (error). I will make one point that should cover many others if looked at truthfully. Jeremiah 10:1-5 is christmas, not as it was then in its early stages mentioned in Jere,, but has evolved into what we see today. v1 tells us, Learn NOT the ways of the heathen... So if all these churches celebrate this event, then they are disobeying God. If they disobey Him on this, what else are they disobeying? If they can't see this simple thing, how can they see the deeper things? I have explained myself as briefly as i could. If you want to debate God's views on all the shepherds & preachers & scholars & learned men, then i have a mountain of prophecies & warnings that a very angry God is giving concerning them. He is not happy. Very very angry with them ALL. And they dwell in todays churches/religions. Everyone should listen. He is really PISSED. So its not just me. Its my Lord. So in reality, your problem is with HIM not me.

I have much to say in reply to this. However, ministry calls at this moment. I shall reply in several hours.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

sorry, who is UPCI?? - im not sure who your referring to - dont think ive heard that - is it a denomination ???

They are sect that denies the biblical revelation of who God is and think they will be the only ones going to heaven and that all us Christians will burn in hell. Here's some information on them:

What does Oneness Pentecostal teach? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[journey41]

Yes, i was also a little confused about the 4 horses in Zeccariah when I first read it, but after comparing them with the 4 horses in Revelations I found them different. You are correct.

I also understand what you are saying about the churches emerging since 338AD. Pretty straight forward.

Regarding Christmas, (please note I am not a JW) but discovered this cover-up during my search for the truth. The roots of this celebration are clearly pagan. It is a hard sacrifice to make but out of our love for Christ well worth it. My earliest memories of Christmas is mom and dad lying to me about this "father Christmas" coming during the night to leave presents while we slept. Did you ever ponder on the scripture in Matthew 23:9 "Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven" also, the cookies that were left out for him? If he isn't real, then who is that sacrifice left for? Dont the hindu religions leave food out for their gods? Mmm sounds familiar, and we are teaching our kids this lie right from the start. We are teaching them to sacrifice to demons without even realising it and preaching lies for their entertainment when we should be teaching them the truth. No matter how hard I search, I cant find it in any scripture where Jesus tells us to celebrate his birth. Only his death. However, I do not judge any-one who celebrates this event. That is their choice. I happen to choose not to anymore. I celebrate Christ EVERYDAY in my heart. I also discovered in Revelations the Deeds of the Nicolations in chapter 2:6 and 2:15. Mmm sounds like St Nicholas to me.

Got heaps more to say but If I keep going my post will be as long as yours! I know you are bold in the word, but go gentle brother. God bless

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Denying the nonesense of the Jehovah Witness mind control cult is a good thing.

What do the Jehovah's Witnesses Teach?

There is one God in one person, Make Sure of All Things, p 188.
There is no Trinity, Let God be True, p. 100-101; Make Sure of All Things, p.386.
The Holy Spirit is a force, not alive, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 406-407.
The Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, The Watchtower, June 1, 1952, p. 24.
Jehovah's first creation was his 'only-begotten Son'. . . was used by Jehovah in
creating all other things", Aid to Bible Understanding, pp. 390-391.
Jesus was Michael the archangel who became a man, The Watchtower, May 15,
1963, p. 307; The New World, 284.
Jesus was only a perfect man, not God in flesh, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 306.
Jesus did not rise from the dead in his physical body, Awake! July 22, 1973, p. 4.
Jesus was raised "not a human creature, but a spirit." Let God be True, p. 276.
Jesus did not die on a cross but on a stake, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 89-90.
Jesus returned to earth, invisibly, in 1914, The Truth Shall Make You Free, p. 300.
Jesus' ransom sacrifice did not include Adam, Let God be True, p. 119.
Their church is the self-proclaimed prophet of God, The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197.
They claim to be the only channel of God's truth, The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981, p. 19.
Only their church members will be saved, The Watchtower, Feb, 15, 1979, p. 30.
Good works are necessary for salvation, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 1, pp. 150, 152.
The soul ceases to exist after death, Let God be True, p. 59, 60, 67.
There is no hell of fire where the wicked are punished, Let God be True, p. 79, 80.
Only 144,000 Jehovah's Witness go to heaven, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
1985, pp. 166-167, 361; Let God be True, p. 121.
Only the 144,000 Jehovah's Witness are born again. Reasoning from the
Scriptures, 1985, p. 76.; Watchtower 11/15/54, p. 681.
Only the 144,000 may take communion.
Blood transfusions are a sin, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 72-73.
The Cross is a pagan symbol and should not be used, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 90-92.
Salvation is by faith and what you do, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 1, pp. 150,152.
It is possible to lose your salvation, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 358-359.
The universe is billions of years old, Your will Be Done on Earth, p. 43.
Each of the 6 creative days of God in Genesis 1, was 7000 years long.
Therefore, Man was created toward the end of 42,000 years of earth's preparation, Let God be True, p. 168.
They also refuse to vote, salute the flag, sing the "Star Spangled Banner," or celebrate Christmas or birthdays.
They are not allowed to serve in the armed forces.
Satan was entrusted with the obligation and charged with the duty of overseeing the creation of the earth, Children, p 55.

And on and on their nonsense go misleading the weak and uninformed...

Jehovah's Witnesses | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Jehovahs Witnesses Information and Articles