Healing through the Son

[Depleted]

If we're being honest here, I've never liked the way you misread people's intentions, and think you know their heart in matters. Especially when it comes to me, as you mischaracterize me and think there are ulterior motives. Even worse is that instead of keeping your opinion to yourself, you wish to air it out to the world and for all to see, not using sound judgement.

I am still learning, and I know to not think myself wise in my own understanding (something the Lord taught me). It isn't me being a know it all, its me operating in the gifts He has given me, and using them for the edification of all. How little you know me to think I don't look in a mirror and see flaws. The smallest of them sadden me.

As for my reputation, that is in the hands of those watching, those reading, and those we are to be a witness to. I'm not going to boast of my conduct, I will let it speak for itself.

You have this gripe against me, that you wish to somehow catch me in the act of passive aggressiveness. Is it because I once expressed it, what I saw, in you, and it was a righteous judgement? Do you wish to make me out to be a hypocrite? I think you have more important things to do.

The Lord lets me know when I have "crap" that needs addressing, He keeps me clean. He is my Teacher, so you don't have to express concern. He's got me.

If you are such a learner, then how come you teach everything as if we must all assume you're right? And I'm not catching you in passive aggressive. It's the way you always act. As easy to spot as me being no lady.

And there are ulterior motives. We do nothing unless it gives us something.

Not a clear understanding of yourself.

 

[BenFTW]

If you are such a learner, then how come you teach everything as if we must all assume you're right? And I'm not catching you in passive aggressive. It's the way you always act. As easy to spot as me being no lady.

And there are ulterior motives. We do nothing unless it gives us something.

Not a clear understanding of yourself.

That's a very pessimistic view on things and me, haha.

 

[wolfwint]

Paul's gospel included physical healing. We know that because in the 14th chapter of Acts he was preaching the gospel in Lystra and a man who had never walked suddenly had faith for physical healing after listening to what Paul was
saying.

Telling the gospel to non believers has nothing to do with our church situation today. Why we have sick christians?
The same question I asked to stones to all who defend the view that christians are already healed, but they must believe it.
This teaching comes out from the charismatic movement. We cant find this teaching in the NT. We cant find this teaching in the churchhistorie, till it brought up through members of the charismatic movement.
Why God hide such an for the believer so important teaching for nearly 1900 years? An idea somebody?

 

[wolfwint]

I understand why you share this, but I don’t agree at all with this guy. Nothing against you.

Jesus didn’t say He healed her, He said power went through Him. In my opinion: This man is quoting Scripture, but not letting it speak for itself. His conclusion is: can Christ be coerced by faith as a force, has so many incorrect suppositions. God doesn’t need to pressured or coerced to heal us. His name is Jehovah Raphe, it’s His nature to heal. Jesus revealed the Father and He healed all who came to Him. I can show an example where it was God’s will to heal, and the unbelief of His disciples did limit healing. So in my opinion he’s not taking the entire Scripture into account and he’s not letting it speak for itself. And his paradigm is that healing crusades are to get customers? Come on. I can’t fathom why a believer would think it’s okay to label all healing crusades like this. Jesus did healing crusades, was He trying to get customers? Of course not! So why would someone assume this about people? Our words reveal our own heart far more than they reveal other people’s. I have friends who have seen blind eyes open in remote villages. And highly unreached nations of people are being saved. And set free. I hope we we could stand together and celebrate what God is doing not stand against it. But whatever God be glorified.

I was 20 years involved in mission ministry in India. I knew from Hindus which asked for healing to missionaries to pray for them, after they tried all the other possibilities including the hindu priest. And they got healed. As a sign that Jesus is greater then their Gods. We fiond plenty of this in missionministrie. But this you cant compare with that what is theme here in this thread.

 

[wolfwint]

Yes, we are spirit beings housed in a human flesh and blood body. Unsaved people are not born again new creations so they cannot respond to truth. They have a body and a soul but their spirit man is dead. We used to be like that but now we are alive to God. New creations... all things are made new.

We are not subject to things we used to be when we were unsaved and had no power to walk any differently. But many Christians don't know this authority Jesus gave them and are allowing themselves to be subject to their flesh when Jesus has freed us from the power of our old human nature called the flesh. We can't depend on our flesh and need to know this fact. Then make the decision daily to walk in the spirit.

When we decide daily to do what pleases our heavenly father, we can called this Live in the Spirit. Right? Indepent of this we have to do Things which nourish our body. Eating, Drinking, earning money, Sleeping. Most of us Living in a relationship ( Marriage, Family, Friends) and we are Living in this World. And that we have our Mortal body Brings along that this Mortal body get sick, ore injured,ore handycapted. We are Facing that our Organs getting out of function, that sound cells are Changing into benigne cells. This is quite normal. We find this among nonbelievers as among christians. You will tell Now that all christians can Live in health, if they believe in that what our Lord Jesus did.
I believe that, too! For the Time we enter Eternity.
But for the Time while we Live in our Mortal body, this claiming is not True. Sickness is coming mostly for People which follow and trust Jesus in the same Way then to People which Living After the flesh. But there reaction of this may be different!
Sorry in my Eyes is that (and thats why i write this) what you and others try to proclaim is something what can destroy the Faith of others. You should not be found as Somebody who destroy the Faith of others in proclaim lies.
Another thing is that it seems for God it is more important to save our soul, then our health which will end in death anyway.

 

[joaniemarie]

When we decide daily to do what pleases our heavenly father, we can called this Live in the Spirit. Right? Indepent of this we have to do Things which nourish our body. Eating, Drinking, earning money, Sleeping. Most of us Living in a relationship ( Marriage, Family, Friends) and we are Living in this World. And that we have our Mortal body Brings along that this Mortal body get sick, ore injured,ore handycapted. We are Facing that our Organs getting out of function, that sound cells are Changing into benigne cells. This is quite normal. We find this among nonbelievers as among christians. You will tell Now that all christians can Live in health, if they believe in that what our Lord Jesus did.
I believe that, too! For the Time we enter Eternity.
But for the Time while we Live in our Mortal body, this claiming is not True. Sickness is coming mostly for People which follow and trust Jesus in the same Way then to People which Living After the flesh. But there reaction of this may be different!
Sorry in my Eyes is that (and thats why i write this) what you and others try to proclaim is something what can destroy the Faith of others. You should not be found as Somebody who destroy the Faith of others in proclaim lies.
Another thing is that it seems for God it is more important to save our soul, then our health which will end in death anyway.

I've already posted my views and beliefs on this subject. Also I believe that in life, we have to have our own faith from God in Christ so that no matter what another person or group of persons says, we can stand on the truth we have been given from the Bible and the Holy Spirit teaching us One on one. If my faith in the Bible and what the Holy Spirit has taught me doesn't line up with what you or other Christians say I have to go with what I've found to be true not what you have found to be true. And vs/vs for that matter.

Philippians 3:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and hold these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also.


This topic is not one to fight about it's one like any other topic to be discussed and be convinced in our own minds as we look into the Bible and "study" and meditate on what we are learning. So as I said to others here who don't like differing conclusions about certain Bible interpretation., that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm simply sharing and also learning from others of like minded faith here.

You have to admit there are millions of Christians on both sides and in the middle of this issue and many other topics in the Bible and so this is not new. What you believe cannot destroy my faith and I certainly hope what I believe cannot destroy yours. If that's the case than our faith is not very strong.

I don't proclaim lies. I share my faith just as you do. The difference I see here is you want to usurp your faith over mine and when I don't agree., you want to tell me I'm lying. So ridiculous when people here try to do that. No one can usurp their faith and experience and understanding of this topic over anyone else's. We must as adult Christians agree to disagree and move on.

Those who make this out to be a war are barking up the wrong tree. Biting and devouring one another is just what the Bible warns us believers about. If any people should be able to agree to disagree it should be Christians.

When and whether we Christians disagree about certain doctrines or voting on the color of the new carpeting in the church or who to vote in as new pastor., the thing that hurts the body is not the topics of disagreement but how we conduct ourselves before others and treat those who don't agree with us.

Whether some like to study the Bible one way or study it another way., Using one preferred translation over another., one teacher or preacher over another., whatever the disagreement... Do they fight and argue and split the church in half or do they submit to one another in love and grace?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.



Gal.5:13-25

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

 

[Didymous]

Paul's gospel included physical healing. We know that because in the 14th chapter of Acts he was preaching the gospel in Lystra and a man who had never walked suddenly had faith for physical healing after listening to what Paul was
saying.

Telling the gospel to non believers has nothing to do with our church situation today. Why we have sick christians?
The same question I asked to stones to all who defend the view that christians are already healed, but they must believe it.
This teaching comes out from the charismatic movement. We cant find this teaching in the NT. We cant find this teaching in the churchhistorie, till it brought up through members of the charismatic movement.
Why God hide such an for the believer so important teaching for nearly 1900 years? An idea somebody?

Actually-Lancelot-the man was healed after Paul said with a loud voice, "Stand upright on thy feet.". Since this isn't mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15, it's not part of the gospel Paul preached.

 

[joaniemarie]

I am still wondering........ does it take the same faith to be healed as it does to be saved?

Surely someone has an answer.

I believe so. By grace through faith that is how I'm learning to walk out the promises of God in Christ. Looking always to Jesus and how to interpret the Bible based on how Jesus is revealed. I've discovered this is a daily walk and learning and growing up in seeing Jesus clearer and clearer each day that never stops.

2 Cor.8:9
For you are becoming progressively acquainted with and recognizing more strongly and clearly the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (His kindness, His gracious generosity, His undeserved favor and spiritual blessing), [in] that though He was [so very] rich, yet for your sakes He became [so very] poor, in order that by His poverty you might become enriched (abundantly supplied).

2 Cor.9:8
And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [SUP][a][/SUP]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [SUP][b][/SUP]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].

10:3-5

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,
[SUP]
5 [/SUP][Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

 

[Didymous]

I believe so. By grace through faith that is how I'm learning to walk out the promises of God in Christ. Looking always to Jesus and how to interpret the Bible based on how Jesus is revealed. I've discovered this is a daily walk and learning and growing up in seeing Jesus clearer and clearer each day that never stops.

2 Cor.8:9
For you are becoming progressively acquainted with and recognizing more strongly and clearly the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (His kindness, His gracious generosity, His undeserved favor and spiritual blessing), [in] that though He was [so very] rich, yet for your sakes He became [so very] poor, in order that by His poverty you might become enriched (abundantly supplied).

2 Cor.9:8
And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [SUP][a][/SUP]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [SUP][b][/SUP]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].

10:3-5

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,
[SUP]
5 [/SUP][Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

Undergrace, faith isn't required to be healed. Read the beginning of Acts 3, and you'll read if a man who had none.

 

[wolfwint]

I've already posted my views and beliefs on this subject. Also I believe that in life, we have to have our own faith from God in Christ so that no matter what another person or group of persons says, we can stand on the truth we have been given from the Bible and the Holy Spirit teaching us One on one. If my faith in the Bible and what the Holy Spirit has taught me doesn't line up with what you or other Christians say I have to go with what I've found to be true not what you have found to be true. And vs/vs for that matter.

Philippians 3:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and hold these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also.


This topic is not one to fight about it's one like any other topic to be discussed and be convinced in our own minds as we look into the Bible and "study" and meditate on what we are learning. So as I said to others here who don't like differing conclusions about certain Bible interpretation., that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm simply sharing and also learning from others of like minded faith here.

You have to admit there are millions of Christians on both sides and in the middle of this issue and many other topics in the Bible and so this is not new. What you believe cannot destroy my faith and I certainly hope what I believe cannot destroy yours. If that's the case than our faith is not very strong.

I don't proclaim lies. I share my faith just as you do. The difference I see here is you want to usurp your faith over mine and when I don't agree., you want to tell me I'm lying. So ridiculous when people here try to do that. No one can usurp their faith and experience and understanding of this topic over anyone else's. We must as adult Christians agree to disagree and move on.

Those who make this out to be a war are barking up the wrong tree. Biting and devouring one another is just what the Bible warns us believers about. If any people should be able to agree to disagree it should be Christians.

When and whether we Christians disagree about certain doctrines or voting on the color of the new carpeting in the church or who to vote in as new pastor., the thing that hurts the body is not the topics of disagreement but how we conduct ourselves before others and treat those who don't agree with us.

Whether some like to study the Bible one way or study it another way., Using one preferred translation over another., one teacher or preacher over another., whatever the disagreement... Do they fight and argue and split the church in half or do they submit to one another in love and grace?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.



Gal.5:13-25

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

Joaniemarie, if you are claiming that christians can live during their life on earth in compleatly health condition, and if they get sick then its belongs to their faith wether they get healed ore not, then this a lie. Because you cant proof that this is true! Because the reality proofes your claim is wrong.
What then is wrong if I say your claim is not true?

It is not easily an issue where we can agree ore disagree and it doesnt matter. With this teaching many people who want to trust the Lord will be deceived, because this teaching simply is not true!
About the future things I would not fight in this way, because I am not shure that I am 100% right.

But in this issue I am shure, because the Holy Spirit tells this to my Spirit. I got the gift to discern the Spirits. And thats why I know your claim is not true.

And yes, i know that everybody is responsible for that what he/she teaches.

 

[joaniemarie]

Joaniemarie, if you are claiming that christians can live during their life on earth in compleatly health condition, and if they get sick then its belongs to their faith wether they get healed ore not, then this a lie. Because you cant proof that this is true! Because the reality proofes your claim is wrong.
What then is wrong if I say your claim is not true?

It is not easily an issue where we can agree ore disagree and it doesnt matter. With this teaching many people who want to trust the Lord will be deceived, because this teaching simply is not true!
About the future things I would not fight in this way, because I am not shure that I am 100% right.

But in this issue I am shure, because the Holy Spirit tells this to my Spirit. I got the gift to discern the Spirits. And thats why I know your claim is not true.

And yes, i know that everybody is responsible for that what he/she teaches.

If you read the posts I've already posted you will see I never said we are all walking around in perfect health. But you are not reading my posts you are reading INTO my posts.

Just as none of us are walking in perfect maturity or anything for that matter., we are learning as I already posted and as you again did not read... you read into.

Listening to another person and answering them for what they actually said is a lost art or an art some have not ever tried. But it should be one we each as Christians endeavor to do.


It's not about "proof" to our physical senses....Heb.11:1 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

 

[joaniemarie]

"Because of sin and separation we live in a world of death and scarcity. In our natural state we are consumed with our needs and lack. We spend our lives trying to get what we don’t have and trying to repair the damage of our estrangement. But the only cure for our brokenness is a revelation of a whole and holy God who lacks nothing and who has promised to supply all our needs out of His overflowing sufficiency."


I didn't write this but I do believe it. The cure for ALL brokenness is found in Christ who lacks nothing and who has promised to supply all our needs out of His overflowing sufficiency. And each day we come to know Him better as the Holy Spirit reveals Him to us through His Word and His witness.

 

[Depleted]

I'll give the same example I've been giving for months now on WoF threads. The man at the pool of Bethesda. He couldn't get in the healing waters because there were so many others trying to be healed too, so he didn't have a shot. And yet, Jesus healed that one man, but not everyone.

You WoFers keep saying Jesus healed everyone. Clearly he did not. So, why do you keep teaching Jesus healed everyone?

Very tired of this question ignored.

 

[joaniemarie]

I have no idea why Jesus healed one and not the other. Did the others there go to Jesus and ask Him to heal them or did they go to the pool out of tradition? It says they were waiting for the movement of the waters. Apparently this pool of Bathesda was a well known place of healing or something. John 5

Did this man maybe hear of Jesus the month or week or day before that day and dare to believe this man "Jesus" could heal him? I don't know. How can we answer for someone else the whys and why not's??

I've heard other speculations before and it's not in the Bible but some preachers and teachers have said this man like many in that day made a career out of begging at this pool and other places. They had to do something to survive. As some do today if you've ever been to Memphis there's hundreds on the side of the highway begging for money. Some people are professional beggars.

Anyway., some say this man as well as others got so used to begging it was a way of life. How can it take 38yrs to get to the water? Even if he camped there and crawled a few feet a day he and others would eventually get there. Anyway., I figure it was a miracle and the man was the thankful recipient of it for whatever the reason was. Seems a lot like the woman who touched the hem of Jesus garment even though hundreds rubbed up against Jesus it was this woman's faith that Jesus responded to. Jesus meets people where they are.

 

[BenFTW]

I'll give the same example I've been giving for months now on WoF threads. The man at the pool of Bethesda. He couldn't get in the healing waters because there were so many others trying to be healed too, so he didn't have a shot. And yet, Jesus healed that one man, but not everyone.

You WoFers keep saying Jesus healed everyone. Clearly he did not. So, why do you keep teaching Jesus healed everyone?

I find it humorous that you take this example to show that Jesus doesn't heal everyone, yet God had sent an angel to stir the waters so that any person who gets in the water first is healed. So, Jesus not only healed this man who couldn't reach the water, but God also, healed (for how ever long) the people who could reach the water. It sounds to me like God had made healing available for all.

When people say that Jesus healed everyone, what they mean to say is that Jesus never denied healing to anyone. It is not once recorded in scripture where Jesus refused to heal someone. The only people, in scripture, who didn't get healed are those that never came to Him in faith.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When people say that Jesus healed everyone, what they mean to say is that Jesus never denied healing to anyone. It is not once recorded in scripture where Jesus refused to heal someone. The only people, in scripture, who didn't get healed are those that never came to Him in faith.

This is correct. But this is also BEFORE Christ went to the Cross to finish His redemptive work (relative to Isaiah 53). And that is something which needs to be carefully considered.

The Gospel which was preached over and over again never included a promise of physical healing. At the same time the Holy Spirit gave the supernatural gift of healing to the apostles and to other Christians during the apostolic period. However, knowing that that Apostolic Age would finish by about AD 100, the Holy Spirit also gave Christians instructions about sickness and healing through James. So for the present time, the prayer of faith offered by the elders is the instrument for Divine healing. However, as we know from Scripture, even that healing and health is not guaranteed to every believer.

 

[wolfwint]

I find it humorous that you take this example to show that Jesus doesn't heal everyone, yet God had sent an angel to stir the waters so that any person who gets in the water first is healed. So, Jesus not only healed this man who couldn't reach the water, but God also, healed (for how ever long) the people who could reach the water. It sounds to me like God had made healing available for all.

When people say that Jesus healed everyone, what they mean to say is that Jesus never denied healing to anyone. It is not once recorded in scripture where Jesus refused to heal someone. The only people, in scripture, who didn't get healed are those that never came to Him in faith.

This is correct, Jesus healed all who came to Him. The reason for that you find in John 20, 30-31. You find this also in the apostolic age, but you dont find it After it.
How many People are attending today healing Meetings and services without getting healed? Because they lack on Faith? How many sick christians playing for healing and not getting and Yes for their request? Because lack on faith?
If it is Gods goal with us to live in earth in health condition, Why he is not healing?
I remember that many christians f.e. Living in India in from Malaria affectet aereas and getting sick and die. Because of lack on Faith?
If you would be right Ben, then every Single christian who believes in Jesus would lives free from Sickness. Because it needs Faith to believe that Jesus carried and forgiven my sins. And when I believe this, I trust him also to heal me or my Family from every deaseses.

 

[wolfwint]

I've already posted my views and beliefs on this subject. Also I believe that in life, we have to have our own faith from God in Christ so that no matter what another person or group of persons says, we can stand on the truth we have been given from the Bible and the Holy Spirit teaching us One on one. If my faith in the Bible and what the Holy Spirit has taught me doesn't line up with what you or other Christians say I have to go with what I've found to be true not what you have found to be true. And vs/vs for that matter.

Philippians 3:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and hold these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also.


This topic is not one to fight about it's one like any other topic to be discussed and be convinced in our own minds as we look into the Bible and "study" and meditate on what we are learning. So as I said to others here who don't like differing conclusions about certain Bible interpretation., that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm simply sharing and also learning from others of like minded faith here.

You have to admit there are millions of Christians on both sides and in the middle of this issue and many other topics in the Bible and so this is not new. What you believe cannot destroy my faith and I certainly hope what I believe cannot destroy yours. If that's the case than our faith is not very strong.

I don't proclaim lies. I share my faith just as you do. The difference I see here is you want to usurp your faith over mine and when I don't agree., you want to tell me I'm lying. So ridiculous when people here try to do that. No one can usurp their faith and experience and understanding of this topic over anyone else's. We must as adult Christians agree to disagree and move on.

Those who make this out to be a war are barking up the wrong tree. Biting and devouring one another is just what the Bible warns us believers about. If any people should be able to agree to disagree it should be Christians.

When and whether we Christians disagree about certain doctrines or voting on the color of the new carpeting in the church or who to vote in as new pastor., the thing that hurts the body is not the topics of disagreement but how we conduct ourselves before others and treat those who don't agree with us.

Whether some like to study the Bible one way or study it another way., Using one preferred translation over another., one teacher or preacher over another., whatever the disagreement... Do they fight and argue and split the church in half or do they submit to one another in love and grace?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.



Gal.5:13-25

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

Joaniemarie, I said: If you claim... that every christian can Live in this present body in health then I Call this for not be true. Then you spread a false teaching. Then you spread a lie. Because this was Never reality in christian lives since the Bible was written.
Do you have this teaching from Dan Mohler?

 

[Depleted]

I have no idea why Jesus healed one and not the other. Did the others there go to Jesus and ask Him to heal them or did they go to the pool out of tradition? It says they were waiting for the movement of the waters. Apparently this pool of Bathesda was a well known place of healing or something. John 5

Did this man maybe hear of Jesus the month or week or day before that day and dare to believe this man "Jesus" could heal him? I don't know. How can we answer for someone else the whys and why not's??

I've heard other speculations before and it's not in the Bible but some preachers and teachers have said this man like many in that day made a career out of begging at this pool and other places. They had to do something to survive. As some do today if you've ever been to Memphis there's hundreds on the side of the highway begging for money. Some people are professional beggars.

Anyway., some say this man as well as others got so used to begging it was a way of life. How can it take 38yrs to get to the water? Even if he camped there and crawled a few feet a day he and others would eventually get there. Anyway., I figure it was a miracle and the man was the thankful recipient of it for whatever the reason was. Seems a lot like the woman who touched the hem of Jesus garment even though hundreds rubbed up against Jesus it was this woman's faith that Jesus responded to. Jesus meets people where they are.

He was by the pool as he had done so for years. And he couldn't get in the pool for the same reason -- everyone else there rushed into the waters when the water churned. He didn't go to Jesus to be healed. He couldn't have. Disability doesn't have coffee breaks or vacation weeks. Jesus came to him.

Jesus came to him.

Not to anyone else, and surely there had to be plenty of others. Otherwise, the guy could have just crawled close enough to the pool that when the water started churning, he could push himself in.

You do realize that you keep "proofing" through these heretics that Jesus healed everyone he came across, and just bypassed that to come up with a bunch of spur of the moment theories why this particular guy was healed, all the while ignoring the often asked question yet again. You keep saying Jesus healed everyone. Why did he not heal everyone here? The guy wasn't the only one at that pool -- that day or any day.

Here is a rendering of what that pool looked like.

Attribution, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1521642

Does that look like a place only one person was sitting by?

So a lot of talking without answering the question yet again. You teach that Jesus' will is to heal everyone. If that is his will, why didn't even he heal everyone?

So far, (and it took a long time for you to even give any answer), you guessed why he healed the man. This question was never about the man. The question was what about everyone else there? According to you and your heretics, God heals everyone. In which case, why didn't God heal everyone even as he passed them?

 

[Depleted]

I find it humorous that you take this example to show that Jesus doesn't heal everyone, yet God had sent an angel to stir the waters so that any person who gets in the water first is healed. So, Jesus not only healed this man who couldn't reach the water, but God also, healed (for how ever long) the people who could reach the water. It sounds to me like God had made healing available for all.

When people say that Jesus healed everyone, what they mean to say is that Jesus never denied healing to anyone. It is not once recorded in scripture where Jesus refused to heal someone. The only people, in scripture, who didn't get healed are those that never came to Him in faith.

(More passive-aggressive in your response.)

I find it sad that you cannot empathize with people who have not been healed for more years than you've been alive.

That man never went to him in faith. He went to those waters in faith. Much like you keep promoting. What can a person get out of God, not God himself.