Hebrews 12 (Let's get into it)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,347
449
83
#1
To he who has ears let him hear…

Hebrews 12
1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

  • Lay aside every weight (everything that will hinder your walk with God). As we can see, the Lord describes this as a race. There is a prize. Who wants to run a race carrying a loaded backpack? NO. Lay the weight aside. Are there idols in your life causing you to spend less time with the Lord? Lay them aside. Are there things consuming your time during the day which have no eternal value? Lay them aside.
  • Lay aside every sin. Every one of them. For sin is a trap. A person walks into it, not understanding the gravity of it, not understanding that it pierces his soul. This is written to believers. Therefore, believer, lay this sin aside. We are commanded here to do so. Stop believing the lie that somehow “sin” is no longer connected to us (Gnostic belief system). We are to do a “work” of laying these sins aside and no longer walking in them.
  • Run the race of faith. It is an endurance race. The length of the race is the number of years and days God has granted to you. If you overcome, you will be granted eternal life. If you keep the faith in Christ, not falling back, you will walk with God. And your walk will be characteristic of what God has in store for you, for He has set this race before you.
  • If you carry along baggage (the weight) your progess will be slowed, if you carry along your sins without repentance, you will be ensnared (trapped). A trapped animal can no longer run the race. The animal can no longer make progress. Lay aside your sins so that you avoid these traps and finish strong. This is God’s will.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

  • So how do we run this race? How do we run to win this race? We look unto Jesus.
  • For it is Jesus who gave us the seed of faith (even the size of a mustard seed)
  • For it is Jesus, who, if we remain in the faith, will bring the work of faith to completion. For Faith is made perfect by works.
  • It is on our part to continue in the faith (believing), and it is on our part to obey the Spirit in His leading. If we do this, we do all that is required to live holy lives before the Lord of Heaven and Earth.
  • For the joy that was set before Jesus was the adoption into the family of God, many sons and daughters, redeemed from the world, without spot or wrinkle, that we give Him all glory honour and praise.
  • We are to look unto Jesus as our example, as a pattern for how we are to live our lives. He endured the cross (verse 2) just as we are to have endurance (verse 1), and He sat down at the right hand of God the Father, just as we, having endured will inherit eternal life.
  • Jesus was obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross Philippians 2v8.
  • You, believer, are to follow the same pattern. Obedience to the point of death. Even if you were personally to go to the cross.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  • Let the context be established clearly. You have a choice to make. Are you going to live according to the flesh or according to the Spirit?
  • For God’s will is that you lay aside every weight and sin.
  • Will temptations come? Yes. But the word says this: James 1v12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
  • You see the crown of life is RESERVED for those who endure (the race of life), for those who overcome (Revelation 2v7), and the final judgement of the Lord when he approves those who have endured and overcome.
  • And who are these who endure? Who are they that overcome? Who are they that the Lord approves? ----- it is those who love the Lord (James 1v12). And those who love the Lord are those who obey the Lord (1 John 5v3). And his commands are not burdensome, for we have the Spirit of God, who by the power of His grace gives life to our mortal bodies.
  • So, believer, when confronted with temptation, what will you choose? Will you resist (even to the point of bloodshed). Or will you yield to this temptation? Do you not know the power of Christ in you? Do you not know that the Lord overcame all sin? Do you not know that you are a new creation? Do you not know that we have a new Master, and that the old master has been dethroned? Oh – where is this “faith” that you so bravely bandy about? Where?
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If[SUP][b][/SUP] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? [SUP]8 [/SUP]But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

  • All those who claim faith in Christ are chastened (all have become partakers)
  • Those who repent (verse 7) by enduring this chastening, are treated as sons.
  • Those who reject this chastening (non repentant – continue in their sins), by their actions, disqualify themselves as sons. They are called illegitimate.
  • You have not yet RESISTED to bloodshed in STRIVING AGAINST SIN.
  • The chastening process is the process used this side of the grave by the Lord to get the believer back onto the right path. Will you agree to this? Or disagree to this? By your actions you decide what camp you are in.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

  • Humble yourselves. God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. James 4v6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:“God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”
  • Will you kick against this process? Will you not heed the Lord’s correction? Will you stubbornly continue in your choicest of sins? This is the essence of Pride. You will not receive then, the Grace that saves. For you are not living by faith.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.

  • We see from these verses it’s not about positional holiness, once for all time, at the point of conversion.
  • Holiness (sanctification) requires obedience.
  • Run with ENDURANCE the race (your whole life) that is set before you by the Lord.
  • Resist Sin
  • Accept the Lord’s chastening with a glad heart. For when he chastens you can be certain that He is still working with you. Directing your paths. Calling you back to Himself. Do not resist the Lord. Make the changes that you need to make in your life. Choose the way of life in the Spirit.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

  • Chastening brings forth sanctification (holiness) and its fruit is righteousness (wherein we know we have peace with God).
  • Believer, will you get with this plan of God?
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

  • Stop being discouraged
  • Look to Jesus for strength
  • Do not turn to the left nor to the right, but make straight paths for your feet Proverbs 4v27 [SUP]27 [/SUP]Do not turn to the right or the left; Remove your foot from evil.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: [SUP]15 [/SUP]looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God;

  • Pursue holiness. You, believer, (yes you reading this) --- pursue holiness, pursue righteousness – it’s a “work”. You have to do something. I know that’s not what you want to hear. That’s your flesh kicking back.
  • Do you still not realise that God is coming for a bride without spot or wrinkle?
  • And that something is to walk in righteousness before God, resisting sin, not yielding to temptations. The whole of the bible talks about this, scripture upon scripture, precept upon precept, all the way from the garden to today – this is the Lord’s will. A loving and obedient people, who are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
  • Do you want to see the Lord? Then pursue holiness. Pursue peace with all people.
  • Or do you think Grace covers it all? Do you think grace covers a willfully disobedient lifestyle? Do you think you cannot fall short of His Grace? Well then re-read verse 15 again, and again, and again. Romans 6v1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; [SUP]16 [/SUP]lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.

  • Do you see it believer? That bitterness, or fornication, or profanity can disqualify you from your birthright?
  • Like how Esau (serving the flesh) lost his birthright --- do you see this believer? Do you not know that those who serve the flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God Galatians 5v19-21
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

  • Believer, do not mock God. Do not treat this covenant as a common thing (Hebrews 10v29). Love God with all your heart, mind, body and soul. Esau, who had opportunity for such a great blessing and inheritance, was found disqualified when he SOLD this inheritance for the temptations of the flesh.
  • Are you, church, selling your inheritance for the temptations of the flesh?
  • Malachi 1v2-4 [SUP]2 [/SUP]“I have loved you,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord. “Yet Jacob I have loved; [SUP]3 [/SUP]But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Even though Edom <Esau’s descendants> has said, “We have been impoverished, But we will return and build the desolate places,” Thus says the Lord of hosts: “They may build, but I will throw down; They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness, And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.
  • Esau (Edom) is a type of Apostate church.
  • Not only did Esau (Apostate Church) sell their inheritance (heaven/eternal life) for the temptations of the flesh, the Lord also describes them as the Territory of Wickedness. This apostate church is the one where Grace is used as a big “cover-up” to live a life of accommodation of sin (Territory of Wickedness).
  • Hebrews 10v29 [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
  • Therefore believer, look carefully lest you fall short of the grace of God (verse 15).
  • 2 Corinthians 13v5 [SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]For you have not come to the mountain that[SUP][c][/SUP] may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness[SUP][d][/SUP] and tempest, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. [SUP]20 [/SUP](For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned[SUP][e][/SUP] or shot with an arrow.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”[SUP][g][/SUP])
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, [SUP]23 [/SUP]to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, [SUP]24 [/SUP]to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

  • This is that great cloud of witnesses (verse 1), witnessing our conduct here on earth
  • Comprised of: An innumerable company of angels
  • Comprised of: The church of God in heaven, the saints who have gone before us
  • God Almighty (Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit who is omnipresent)
  • How then, should our conduct be here on earth? Will you lay aside every weight which hinders you, and sin which ensnares you? Will you run the race to win, like Paul says?
  • 1 Corinthians 9v24-27 [SUP]24 [/SUP]Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
  • Church, are you able to hear these words? Are you able to understand?
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, [SUP]26 [/SUP]whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake[SUP][h][/SUP] not only the earth, but also heaven.”[SUP][i][/SUP] [SUP]27 [/SUP]Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

  • If we refuse God's words we will not escape.
  • Mark 8v38 [SUP]38 [/SUP]For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
  • Jesus in this final hour will begin to shake the heavens and the earth. There will be a sifting that will happen. The true bride will come forth, without blame spot or wrinkle.
  • Ephesians 5v26-27 [SUP]26 [/SUP]that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
  • The apostate church will be shaken and be removed in the final hour. For they are the ones who forsake the covenant they have with the Lord. They didn’t heed the words of the Lord. And He is an all-consuming fire.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[SUP][j][/SUP] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For our God is a consuming fire.

  • To the bride of Christ. To the true Church. To those who love the Lord. To those who obey his commands ----- to you be grace, by which you can serve the Lord acceptably, with reverence and godly fear, presenting your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to the Lord, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12v1-2
 
Last edited:
May 12, 2017
2,641
64
0
#2
Is this considered posting or should this be a blog entry? Seems to me you are trying to teach people not discuss with people.

If you feel like writing a novel, then make it a blog entry, they have that on this site.
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,257
843
113
#3
Chris1975 said:
For the joy that was set before Jesus was the adoption into the family of God, many sons and daughters, redeemed from the world, without spot or wrinkle, that we give Him all glory honour and praise
I know this is what we have been taught. That Jesus looked into the future, saw us, and that just filled Him with joy.

I'm sorry, but I do not bring that much joy. Not to the extent that someone would endure what my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ endured.

You know what brings that kind of joy to the heart? The kind of joy that can strengthen a person to endure the unbearable?

God.

Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Psalm 21:6-7 For thou hast made him most blessed for ever: thou hast made him exceeding glad with thy countenance. For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved.



Think about it, Chris1975.

If Jesus Christ would not have endured the crucifixion, He would have broken fellowship with His Father. It was the will of the Father that the cup not be removed Jesus:

Luke 22:

42 ... Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.



Jesus Christ laid down His life for us. And He did so with the joy of the Father in His mind and heart, strengthened for the task set down before him.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,425
3,337
113
#4
Is this considered posting or should this be a blog entry? Seems to me you are trying to teach people not discuss with people.

If you feel like writing a novel, then make it a blog entry, they have that on this site.
Sums it up.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
40
0
#5
great post broski i gave you rep............ good study
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,257
843
113
#6
Chris1975 said:
Those who reject this chastening (non repentant – continue in their sins), by their actions, disqualify themselves as sons. They are called illegitimate.
That is not what the verses say, Chris1975 ---

Hebrews 12:

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


These verses are quoted from Proverbs 3:11-12 – My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Nowhere in Heb 12, or in Proverbs 3 is there any indication that the son is "disqualified". That is your addition to the words of Scripture.

Both of the records Hebrews and Proverbs are clear that God loves His children and He chastens us because He loves us.



Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The child of God endures the chastening and God is going to continue to chasten us throughout our lifetime on this earth as He is a loving Heavenly Father toward His children.



Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

See the words whereof all are partakers?

All of God's children partake of the chastening of the Lord because God loves us as dear children.

The ones who are not chastened are those who are not born again, because they are not God's children and He is not their Father.
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
64
0
#7
And now the disagreements have started and we will have 500 pages of bickering and no fruitful discussion.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#8
great post again bro, always thorough and always clear, always sticking to what is written. God bless thanks for taking the time to share your posts always enjoy them and find some edification.

2 corinthians 10:2-5 "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ"
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,363
991
113
#9
To he who has ears let him hear…

Hebrews 12
1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

  • Lay aside every weight (everything that will hinder your walk with God). As we can see, the Lord describes this as a race. There is a prize. Who wants to run a race carrying a loaded backpack? NO. Lay the weight aside. Are there idols in your life causing you to spend less time with the Lord? Lay them aside. Are there things consuming your time during the day which have no eternal value? Lay them aside.
  • Lay aside every sin. Every one of them. For sin is a trap. A person walks into it, not understanding the gravity of it, not understanding that it pierces his soul. This is written to believers. Therefore, believer, lay this sin aside. We are commanded here to do so. Stop believing the lie that somehow “sin” is no longer connected to us (Gnostic belief system). We are to do a “work” of laying these sins aside and no longer walking in them.
  • Run the race of faith. It is an endurance race. The length of the race is the number of years and days God has granted to you. If you overcome, you will be granted eternal life. If you keep the faith in Christ, not falling back, you will walk with God. And your walk will be characteristic of what God has in store for you, for He has set this race before you.
  • If you carry along baggage (the weight) your progess will be slowed, if you carry along your sins without repentance, you will be ensnared (trapped). A trapped animal can no longer run the race. The animal can no longer make progress. Lay aside your sins so that you avoid these traps and finish strong. This is God’s will.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

  • So how do we run this race? How do we run to win this race? We look unto Jesus.
  • For it is Jesus who gave us the seed of faith (even the size of a mustard seed)
  • For it is Jesus, who, if we remain in the faith, will bring the work of faith to completion. For Faith is made perfect by works.
  • It is on our part to continue in the faith (believing), and it is on our part to obey the Spirit in His leading. If we do this, we do all that is required to live holy lives before the Lord of Heaven and Earth.
  • For the joy that was set before Jesus was the adoption into the family of God, many sons and daughters, redeemed from the world, without spot or wrinkle, that we give Him all glory honour and praise.
  • We are to look unto Jesus as our example, as a pattern for how we are to live our lives. He endured the cross (verse 2) just as we are to have endurance (verse 1), and He sat down at the right hand of God the Father, just as we, having endured will inherit eternal life.
  • Jesus was obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross Philippians 2v8.
  • You, believer, are to follow the same pattern. Obedience to the point of death. Even if you were personally to go to the cross.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  • Let the context be established clearly. You have a choice to make. Are you going to live according to the flesh or according to the Spirit?
  • For God’s will is that you lay aside every weight and sin.
  • Will temptations come? Yes. But the word says this: James 1v12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
  • You see the crown of life is RESERVED for those who endure (the race of life), for those who overcome (Revelation 2v7), and the final judgement of the Lord when he approves those who have endured and overcome.
  • And who are these who endure? Who are they that overcome? Who are they that the Lord approves? ----- it is those who love the Lord (James 1v12). And those who love the Lord are those who obey the Lord (1 John 5v3). And his commands are not burdensome, for we have the Spirit of God, who by the power of His grace gives life to our mortal bodies.
  • So, believer, when confronted with temptation, what will you choose? Will you resist (even to the point of bloodshed). Or will you yield to this temptation? Do you not know the power of Christ in you? Do you not know that the Lord overcame all sin? Do you not know that you are a new creation? Do you not know that we have a new Master, and that the old master has been dethroned? Oh – where is this “faith” that you so bravely bandy about? Where?
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If[SUP][b][/SUP] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? [SUP]8 [/SUP]But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

  • All those who claim faith in Christ are chastened (all have become partakers)
  • Those who repent (verse 7) by enduring this chastening, are treated as sons.
  • Those who reject this chastening (non repentant – continue in their sins), by their actions, disqualify themselves as sons. They are called illegitimate.
  • You have not yet RESISTED to bloodshed in STRIVING AGAINST SIN.
  • The chastening process is the process used this side of the grave by the Lord to get the believer back onto the right path. Will you agree to this? Or disagree to this? By your actions you decide what camp you are in.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

  • Humble yourselves. God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. James 4v6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:“God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”
  • Will you kick against this process? Will you not heed the Lord’s correction? Will you stubbornly continue in your choicest of sins? This is the essence of Pride. You will not receive then, the Grace that saves. For you are not living by faith.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.

  • We see from these verses it’s not about positional holiness, once for all time, at the point of conversion.
  • Holiness (sanctification) requires obedience.
  • Run with ENDURANCE the race (your whole life) that is set before you by the Lord.
  • Resist Sin
  • Accept the Lord’s chastening with a glad heart. For when he chastens you can be certain that He is still working with you. Directing your paths. Calling you back to Himself. Do not resist the Lord. Make the changes that you need to make in your life. Choose the way of life in the Spirit.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

  • Chastening brings forth sanctification (holiness) and its fruit is righteousness (wherein we know we have peace with God).
  • Believer, will you get with this plan of God?
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

  • Stop being discouraged
  • Look to Jesus for strength
  • Do not turn to the left nor to the right, but make straight paths for your feet Proverbs 4v27 [SUP]27 [/SUP]Do not turn to the right or the left; Remove your foot from evil.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: [SUP]15 [/SUP]looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God;

  • Pursue holiness. You, believer, (yes you reading this) --- pursue holiness, pursue righteousness – it’s a “work”. You have to do something. I know that’s not what you want to hear. That’s your flesh kicking back.
  • Do you still not realise that God is coming for a bride without spot or wrinkle?
  • And that something is to walk in righteousness before God, resisting sin, not yielding to temptations. The whole of the bible talks about this, scripture upon scripture, precept upon precept, all the way from the garden to today – this is the Lord’s will. A loving and obedient people, who are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
  • Do you want to see the Lord? Then pursue holiness. Pursue peace with all people.
  • Or do you think Grace covers it all? Do you think grace covers a willfully disobedient lifestyle? Do you think you cannot fall short of His Grace? Well then re-read verse 15 again, and again, and again. Romans 6v1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; [SUP]16 [/SUP]lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.

  • Do you see it believer? That bitterness, or fornication, or profanity can disqualify you from your birthright?
  • Like how Esau (serving the flesh) lost his birthright --- do you see this believer? Do you not know that those who serve the flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God Galatians 5v19-21
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

  • Believer, do not mock God. Do not treat this covenant as a common thing (Hebrews 10v29). Love God with all your heart, mind, body and soul. Esau, who had opportunity for such a great blessing and inheritance, was found disqualified when he SOLD this inheritance for the temptations of the flesh.
  • Are you, church, selling your inheritance for the temptations of the flesh?
  • Malachi 1v2-4 [SUP]2 [/SUP]“I have loved you,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord. “Yet Jacob I have loved; [SUP]3 [/SUP]But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Even though Edom <Esau’s descendants> has said, “We have been impoverished, But we will return and build the desolate places,” Thus says the Lord of hosts: “They may build, but I will throw down; They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness, And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.
  • Esau (Edom) is a type of Apostate church.
  • Not only did Esau (Apostate Church) sell their inheritance (heaven/eternal life) for the temptations of the flesh, the Lord also describes them as the Territory of Wickedness. This apostate church is the one where Grace is used as a big “cover-up” to live a life of accommodation of sin (Territory of Wickedness).
  • Hebrews 10v29 [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
  • Therefore believer, look carefully lest you fall short of the grace of God (verse 15).
  • 2 Corinthians 13v5 [SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]For you have not come to the mountain that[SUP][c][/SUP] may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness[SUP][d][/SUP] and tempest, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. [SUP]20 [/SUP](For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned[SUP][e][/SUP] or shot with an arrow.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”[SUP][g][/SUP])
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, [SUP]23 [/SUP]to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, [SUP]24 [/SUP]to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

  • This is that great cloud of witnesses (verse 1), witnessing our conduct here on earth
  • Comprised of: An innumerable company of angels
  • Comprised of: The church of God in heaven, the saints who have gone before us
  • God Almighty (Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit who is omnipresent)
  • How then, should our conduct be here on earth? Will you lay aside every weight which hinders you, and sin which ensnares you? Will you run the race to win, like Paul says?
  • 1 Corinthians 9v24-27 [SUP]24 [/SUP]Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
  • Church, are you able to hear these words? Are you able to understand?
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, [SUP]26 [/SUP]whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake[SUP][h][/SUP] not only the earth, but also heaven.”[SUP][i][/SUP] [SUP]27 [/SUP]Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

  • If we refuse God's words we will not escape.
  • Mark 8v38 [SUP]38 [/SUP]For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
  • Jesus in this final hour will begin to shake the heavens and the earth. There will be a sifting that will happen. The true bride will come forth, without blame spot or wrinkle.
  • Ephesians 5v26-27 [SUP]26 [/SUP]that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
  • The apostate church will be shaken and be removed in the final hour. For they are the ones who forsake the covenant they have with the Lord. They didn’t heed the words of the Lord. And He is an all-consuming fire.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[SUP][j][/SUP] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For our God is a consuming fire.

  • To the bride of Christ. To the true Church. To those who love the Lord. To those who obey his commands ----- to you be grace, by which you can serve the Lord acceptably, with reverence and godly fear, presenting your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to the Lord, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12v1-2
very Long read
 
Dec 3, 2016
1,674
24
0
#10
I'm sorry, but I do not bring that much joy.
Well, you should start! And, you should realize WHY the Lord created you... He wants to be your everything so what He desires is for you to agree with Him and walk with Him.

Anyone can turn from their sin and start doing that right now and the Lord will be pleased with them...



very Long read
Especially when people quote the entire post!
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,257
843
113
#11
Rockrz said:
reneweddaybyday said:
I'm sorry, but I do not bring that much joy.
Well, you should start! And, you should realize WHY the Lord created you... He wants to be your everything so what He desires is for you to agree with Him and walk with Him.
I know why God created me:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.



Rockrz said:
Anyone can turn from their sin and start doing that right now and the Lord will be pleased with them...
I was not talking about that in the post you quoted from, Rockrz.

I was pointing out that the joy laid before our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as He endured what both you and I deserve was not me (or you for that matter).

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I believe the joy that was set before Him as He endured the cross, despising the same was the Father. It is only the Father that can bring sufficient joy which provides that which is needed in order to endure the unimaginable suffering and the shameful humiliation our Lord Jesus Christ underwent.

You do not have to agree. And you can continue along, blithely believing that as our Lord and Savior withstood the sham of a trial, the horrific beatings and mocking, the torturous crucifixion and all the while, He saw you in front of Him.

I will continue to believe the only One I know of Who can bring that type of Joy ... the Joy that strengthens so He could endure to the end where He proclaimed "It is finished" ... that type of Joy comes only from Father God. And that brought such joy to His heart that He laid it all down for Father, and we now benefit from His sacrifice.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,649
8,040
113
54
#12
That is not what the verses say, Chris1975 ---

Hebrews 12:

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


These verses are quoted from Proverbs 3:11-12 – My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Nowhere in Heb 12, or in Proverbs 3 is there any indication that the son is "disqualified". That is your addition to the words of Scripture.

Both of the records Hebrews and Proverbs are clear that God loves His children and He chastens us because He loves us.



Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The child of God endures the chastening and God is going to continue to chasten us throughout our lifetime on this earth as He is a loving Heavenly Father toward His children.



Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

See the words whereof all are partakers?

All of God's children partake of the chastening of the Lord because God loves us as dear children.

The ones who are not chastened are those who are not born again, because they are not God's children and He is not their Father.
Amen! The Amplified Classic Bible explains Hebrews 12:8 very nicely - Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God's children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,714
150
63
#13
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

  • So how do we run this race? How do we run to win this race? We look unto Jesus.
  • For it is Jesus who gave us the seed of faith (even the size of a mustard seed)
  • For it is Jesus, who, if we remain in the faith, will bring the work of faith to completion. For Faith is made perfect by works.
  • It is on our part to continue in the faith (believing), and it is on our part to obey the Spirit in His leading. If we do this, we do all that is required to live holy lives before the Lord of Heaven and Earth.
  • For the joy that was set before Jesus was the adoption into the family of God, many sons and daughters, redeemed from the world, without spot or wrinkle, that we give Him all glory honour and praise.
  • We are to look unto Jesus as our example, as a pattern for how we are to live our lives. He endured the cross (verse 2) just as we are to have endurance (verse 1), and He sat down at the right hand of God the Father, just as we, having endured will inherit eternal life.
  • Jesus was obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross Philippians 2v8.
  • You, believer, are to follow the same pattern. Obedience to the point of death. Even if you were personally to go to the cross.
But you only needed to highlight a small section from your entire post. Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.... Jesus, not us, otherwise we could boast about it (Ephesians 2:8-10) :)

He is the author that also finishes. God always finishes what He starts (Philippians 1:6)

Those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. Predestined confirms future completion. Predestined... Called... Justified... then Glorified (Romans 8:29-30)
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,347
449
83
#14
But you only needed to highlight a small section from your entire post. Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.... Jesus, not us, otherwise we could boast about it (Ephesians 2:8-10) :)

He is the author that also finishes. God always finishes what He starts (Philippians 1:6)

Those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. Predestined confirms future completion. Predestined... Called... Justified... then Glorified (Romans 8:29-30)
Don't get confused:
- Election is what God does. He chooses, before time began, a people whom he will glorify.
- God knows who these are. Because he has foreknowledge.
- Man does not know who these Elect are.
- When a believer remains in the faith, and overcomes, then Salvation and Election meet.
- If a believer falls away from the faith, they don't overcome, they are no longer saved. These ones were never Elect.

Let's look at the verses you refer to above in Romans 8 again. And let's include the verse before this.

Romans 8
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


And who are those who love God?

John 14v15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][a][/SUP] My commandments.


1 John 5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

- So you see, that if you want to confirm your Election is sure, you have to walk in obedience.

And here we have scriptural confirmation of what I am telling you:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#15
Is this considered posting or should this be a blog entry? Seems to me you are trying to teach people not discuss with people.

If you feel like writing a novel, then make it a blog entry, they have that on this site.
Or you can ignore it and move on to something more to your liking. I don't know about you but I've been to plenty of Bible studies that a person gives a teaching then it gets discussed.
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,257
843
113
#16
But you only needed to highlight a small section from your entire post. Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.... Jesus, not us, otherwise we could boast about it (Ephesians 2:8-10) :)

He is the author that also finishes. God always finishes what He starts (Philippians 1:6)

Those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. Predestined confirms future completion. Predestined... Called... Justified... then Glorified (Romans 8:29-30)
Amen, Katy-follower.

Jesus is the Author (Beginning) and Finisher (End) of faith. Keep our eyes fixed on Him. Any time our attention is diverted to ourselves, or another, or things, we take our eyes off of Him. Colossians 3:4 tells us When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

He is our Life! He is the Author and Finisher of faith --- it is in Him that we have access to the faith wherein we we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God (Rom 5:2).
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,537
12,667
113
#17
And now the disagreements have started and we will have 500 pages of bickering and no fruitful discussion.
How can you have a fruitful discussion unless you discuss. Any discussion will risk disagreement. If it is all one way discussion, is it really discussion at all? or is it just all folloiwing a man?

Thats the problem with the church today, we are men followers. thus we are blind when it comes to our faults and errors in doctrine.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,537
12,667
113
#18
That is not what the verses say, Chris1975 ---

Hebrews 12:

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


These verses are quoted from Proverbs 3:11-12 – My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Nowhere in Heb 12, or in Proverbs 3 is there any indication that the son is "disqualified". That is your addition to the words of Scripture.

Both of the records Hebrews and Proverbs are clear that God loves His children and He chastens us because He loves us.



Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The child of God endures the chastening and God is going to continue to chasten us throughout our lifetime on this earth as He is a loving Heavenly Father toward His children.



Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

See the words whereof all are partakers?

All of God's children partake of the chastening of the Lord because God loves us as dear children.

The ones who are not chastened are those who are not born again, because they are not God's children and He is not their Father.
Amen sis, it is quite clear the passage is saying that people who are not part of Gods family will not be chastened, and Not what Chris75 tried to show..

All of Gods children will get chastened.. And if they do not respond, they will suffer.. But they are still Gods children, and will still be chastened.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,537
12,667
113
#19
Don't get confused:
- Election is what God does. He chooses, before time began, a people whom he will glorify.
- God knows who these are. Because he has foreknowledge.
- Man does not know who these Elect are.
- When a believer remains in the faith, and overcomes, then Salvation and Election meet.
- If a believer falls away from the faith, they don't overcome, they are no longer saved. These ones were never Elect.

Let's look at the verses you refer to above in Romans 8 again. And let's include the verse before this.

Romans 8
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


And who are those who love God?

John 14v15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][a][/SUP] My commandments.


1 John 5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

- So you see, that if you want to confirm your Election is sure, you have to walk in obedience.

And here we have scriptural confirmation of what I am telling you:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
excuse me, I think your the one who is confused.

God knew them, your right, That means they are saved at this moment, even if they are not born. God does not make mistakes.

He also does not give his salvation, His eternal life, His gift of adoption to people who KNOWS will deny him..
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,537
12,667
113
#20
Amen, Katy-follower.

Jesus is the Author (Beginning) and Finisher (End) of faith. Keep our eyes fixed on Him. Any time our attention is diverted to ourselves, or another, or things, we take our eyes off of Him. Colossians 3:4 tells us When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

He is our Life! He is the Author and Finisher of faith --- it is in Him that we have access to the faith wherein we we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God (Rom 5:2).
Amen, it is all of God, who gets ALL the glory, because he did all the work.. That way no one can boast.