Hebrews 12 (Let's get into it)

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May 12, 2017
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#21
Don't get confused:
- Election is what God does. He chooses, before time began, a people whom he will glorify.
- God knows who these are. Because he has foreknowledge.
- Man does not know who these Elect are.
- When a believer remains in the faith, and overcomes, then Salvation and Election meet.
- If a believer falls away from the faith, they don't overcome, they are no longer saved. These ones were never Elect.

Let's look at the verses you refer to above in Romans 8 again. And let's include the verse before this.

Romans 8
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


And who are those who love God?

John 14v15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][a][/SUP] My commandments.


1 John 5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

- So you see, that if you want to confirm your Election is sure, you have to walk in obedience.

And here we have scriptural confirmation of what I am telling you:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We all get you are works based/condition based salvation adherent and that losing your salvation can happen to you at any moment you fail to stay inline with all the rules and regulations .

Do you really need to do this Chris? You are not discussing, you are posting what you believe and then attempting to convince others they are wrong. This is not teaching, it is arrogant aggrandizing and you need to stop it.
 
May 12, 2017
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#22
Or you can ignore it and move on to something more to your liking. I don't know about you but I've been to plenty of Bible studies that a person gives a teaching then it gets discussed.
this is not study/discussion, it is just another cleverly disguised works based salvation thread.
 
May 12, 2017
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#23
How can you have a fruitful discussion unless you discuss. Any discussion will risk disagreement. If it is all one way discussion, is it really discussion at all? or is it just all folloiwing a man?

Thats the problem with the church today, we are men followers. thus we are blind when it comes to our faults and errors in doctrine.
we have 100 other threads discussing this with over 500 pages each, do we really need another one?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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#24
this is not study/discussion, it is just another cleverly disguised works based salvation thread.
- This is a discussion of the Book Hebrews, the 12th chapter.
- You may not like the interpretations, as you call them "works based salvation", and I suspect you are OSAS indoctrinated.
- So go ahead, give an interpretation of this chapter, line by line, scripture by scripture, from your viewpoint.
- Feel free to remove all of the so called "works based" interpretations from these passages.
 
May 12, 2017
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#25
- This is a discussion of the Book Hebrews, the 12th chapter.
- You may not like the interpretations, as you call them "works based salvation", and I suspect you are OSAS indoctrinated.
- So go ahead, give an interpretation of this chapter, line by line, scripture by scripture, from your viewpoint.
- Feel free to remove all of the so called "works based" interpretations from these passages.
your first error is suspecting anything about me...why is it that people always suspect things about people they have no clue about!?!?

Your second error is assuming I care about your thread.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#26
We all get you are works based/condition based salvation adherent and that losing your salvation can happen to you at any moment you fail to stay inline with all the rules and regulations.
For some people in the NOSAS camp, losing salvation equates to "stop believing" down the road after "temporarily believing" and rejecting Christ becomes their final answer, but for others in the NOSAS camp, it's more of a "type 2 works salvation" maintenance program. I got off that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security upon my conversion, after I left the Roman Catholic church.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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#27
your first error is suspecting anything about me...why is it that people always suspect things about people they have no clue about!?!?

Your second error is assuming I care about your thread.
That's why I used the word "suspect". ;)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#28
Oh how excited I am to reach the finish line. The last breath to freedom. Thank God I have this hope and truth to hold on to.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#29
Free from pain, suffering, decay, disease, sorrow, and evil.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#30
To he who has ears let him hear…

Hebrews 12
1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

  • Lay aside every weight (everything that will hinder your walk with God). As we can see, the Lord describes this as a race. There is a prize. Who wants to run a race carrying a loaded backpack? NO. Lay the weight aside. Are there idols in your life causing you to spend less time with the Lord? Lay them aside. Are there things consuming your time during the day which have no eternal value? Lay them aside.
  • Lay aside every sin. Every one of them. For sin is a trap. A person walks into it, not understanding the gravity of it, not understanding that it pierces his soul. This is written to believers. Therefore, believer, lay this sin aside. We are commanded here to do so. Stop believing the lie that somehow “sin” is no longer connected to us (Gnostic belief system). We are to do a “work” of laying these sins aside and no longer walking in them.
  • Run the race of faith. It is an endurance race. The length of the race is the number of years and days God has granted to you. If you overcome, you will be granted eternal life. If you keep the faith in Christ, not falling back, you will walk with God. And your walk will be characteristic of what God has in store for you, for He has set this race before you.
  • If you carry along baggage (the weight) your progess will be slowed, if you carry along your sins without repentance, you will be ensnared (trapped). A trapped animal can no longer run the race. The animal can no longer make progress. Lay aside your sins so that you avoid these traps and finish strong. This is God’s will.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

  • So how do we run this race? How do we run to win this race? We look unto Jesus.
  • For it is Jesus who gave us the seed of faith (even the size of a mustard seed)
  • For it is Jesus, who, if we remain in the faith, will bring the work of faith to completion. For Faith is made perfect by works.
  • It is on our part to continue in the faith (believing), and it is on our part to obey the Spirit in His leading. If we do this, we do all that is required to live holy lives before the Lord of Heaven and Earth.

Looking off unto Jesus the author and finisher of out faith. Seems clear to me that such a person is guaranteed to the end.



  • For the joy that was set before Jesus was the adoption into the family of God, many sons and daughters, redeemed from the world, without spot or wrinkle, that we give Him all glory honour and praise.
  • We are to look unto Jesus as our example, as a pattern for how we are to live our lives.
No we are to look to Jesus to finish our faith(and it does not mean finish off).


  • [*] He endured the cross (verse 2) just as we are to have endurance (verse 1), and He sat down at the right hand of God the Father, just as we, having endured will inherit eternal life.

    We have endured BECAUSE He is the author and finisher of or faith. HE keeps us to the end.

Jesus was obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross Philippians 2v8.


  • You, believer, are to follow the same pattern. Obedience to the point of death. Even if you were personally to go to the cross.
That is true. But Who will keep us to the end? The Finisher of our faith.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  • Let the context be established clearly. You have a choice to make. Are you going to live according to the flesh or according to the Spirit?
You have already made that choice.


For God’s will is that you lay aside every weight and sin.


Will temptations come? Yes. But the word says this: James 1v12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

You see the crown of life is RESERVED for those who endure (the race of life), for those who overcome (Revelation 2v7), and the final judgement of the Lord when he approves those who have endured and overcome.


And you are guaranteed to receive it because of the finisher of your faith




 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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#31
I dont know why this page is corrupted. I thought it was Once Seen Always Seen (OSAS)




































































































































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MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#33
Nobody can say Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Spirit,and those who claim Jesus is come in the flesh is of God.

Why do people of the OSAS even debate with people,for if sin does not affect their relationship with God,then their errors do not cause them to stumble,for sin is sin.

Why bother with them if their errors do not matter anyway,for sin does not affect their relationship with God.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#34
Nobody can say Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Spirit,and those who claim Jesus is come in the flesh is of God.

Why do people of the OSAS even debate with people,for if sin does not affect their relationship with God,then their errors do not cause them to stumble,for sin is sin.

Why bother with them if their errors do not matter anyway,for sin does not affect their relationship with God.
but OSAS believe in obedience to God. Thats why.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#35
but OSAS believe in obedience to God. Thats why.
How do they believe in obedience to God more than other people,when people that do not believe what they believe,confess Jesus as Lord,He is come in flesh,and He is the Christ,the Son of the living God,which they cannot do that unless God is working in their life,especially if they say abstain from sin,and be Christlike.

When I view OSAS in the world,they have a worldliness about them,liking fleshy pleasures,which the Bible says of such is not of the Father,and the prosperity Gospel,which withdraw yourself from them,and if they do not help the poor and needy,then the love of God does not dwell in them.

If they say be Christlike,and help the poor and needy,how are they not being obedient,when some lack and say they are obedient.

If sin does not affect their relationship with God,then why do they go against people if they claim Jesus is Lord,and Jesus is come in the flesh,which they can only do by the Spirit,so the Spirit must be working in their life,and then any wrong they say they do should not affect their relationship with God,if that is what OSAS believes.