Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter as usual seems to make claims then when confronted refuses to answer, so again.

Double speak. Victory in Christ would be being able to walk without sinning, as Holy,
blameless, pure people. Christ in us makes this possible.

ah so your sinless. i thought you denied this? Which is it?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

take note people, here is someone who pushes sinless perfectionism ( that is a lie, so there is one right there) and this person redefines Biblical definition of sin. this person told me yesterday that when James said knowing to do go and not doing so, this did not really mean what it clearly and simply means.

this is how they come up with this self-righteous garbage, be reducing and redefining what sin REALLY is.

Sinless perfection is definitely something worth pursuing. Only Christ is sinless perfection, so if we are following Christ we are following sinless perfection. He gives grace to continue the journey when we fail, to let us know that we are still loved and accepted.

 

[PeterJens]

this is how they come up with this self-righteous garbage, be reducing and redefining what sin REALLY is.

self-righteous garbage

I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice,
bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me and making their treasuries full.
Prov 8:20-21


You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.
Heb 1:9


But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
Eph 5:3

Which would you rather, walk in Gods ways or walk in the way of HG and heresy.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter as usual seems to make claims then when confronted refuses to answer, so again.
ah so your sinless. i thought you denied this? Which is it?

Language is an interesting thing.

Paul uses the word "blameless". We can walk without blame.

In the law scope is made for sinning without knowing it. So I think we could claim
to walk blamelessly, ie not knowing any failure over which we could be blamed, but
only God could say if we walked without sin at any particular time.

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

Here we have Paul saying he walked blamelessly.

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thes 3:13

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Language is an interesting thing.

Paul uses the word "blameless". We can walk without blame.

In the law scope is made for sinning without knowing it. So I think we could claim
to walk blamelessly, ie not knowing any failure over which we could be blamed, but
only God could say if we walked without sin at any particular time.

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

Here we have Paul saying he walked blamelessly.

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thes 3:13

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23

You did not answer the question.

Are you claimng to be sinless or not?

Your claim against grace believers is we do not believe we can be sinless and walk with god. So are you sinless? or not?

 

[UnderGrace]

Well, indeed we can finally agree this is a philosophy of life.

I pray you will lay aside this philosophy though!

If you are interested there are many true believers here that would love to teach you.
I will pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you to His truth and no another.

A philosophy of life



Every emotional position of life has important points that make up the system of belief.
It is always centred around, we the group of believers are ok. You over there are evil
because of this list of failures.

This only can survive if the two groups are easily identified. So the teachers will clearly
define the ways you decide enemy and friend.

What I have noticed is this creates a hypocracy of thought.
A sinner is a sinner because he sins. But once saved the same behaviour is now
good.

Now the excuses will flow, and the denials, but in the end it is underpinned by
failure, and the point to try and put effort into victory is futile.

But this is because sin is about relationships and failure. Now if these people
knew Christ they would understand this, but because some obviously do not
the connection can never be made, as it only makes sense when you know
Christ.

It is simply a testimony against their spiritual foundations, they are happy to
live with hypocracy. They are so convinced of their hypocracy that their
powerful accusation is I am just as much a hypocrite as them so need to
repent of arrogance, pride, and self righteousness.

The problem for them is if I am actually righteous, walking in victory and being
blameless before the Lord. But then they would never know this, because
that is their spiritual reality. So I say this as a warning and testimony against
them, for out of this pit there is no escape.

 

[PeterJens]

You did not answer the question.
Are you claimng to be sinless or not?
Your claim against grace believers is we do not believe we can be sinless and walk with god. So are you sinless? or not?

EG - no-one can say they are sinless, but they can say they walk in righteousness
and purity. It is only God who can judge about sin.

You seem not to be able to understand the difference between a walk and fellowship
and arrogance of claiming status upon oneself.

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
1 Cor 4:3

You stand condemned yourself as you judge yourself a sinner daily, hourly, and yet do not repent
or confess or get yourself right with God, because you regard it as already forgiven.

But what you read Paul saying is he is holy and blameless.

Now if you cannot see the contrast you are truly lost, which our interactions over the months
has convinced me of. How a hypocrite thinks he can bring anyone down is beyond me.

It is just a laughing stock. Truly your faith is just a crutch to your life, you have no victory,
or reality, you spend your days in self condemnation and have no joy in your salvation, but
continual fear. And you think you can bring me down with the failure you live. Even satan
cannot bring down the people of God, so who are you to even try?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - no-one can say they are sinless, but they can say they walk in righteousness
and purity. It is only God who can judge about sin.

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Double speak. Victory in Christ would be being able to walk without sinning, as Holy,
blameless, pure people. Christ in us makes this possible.

Thank you Peter. You just proved true double speak.

You condemned grace believers saying they do nt believe one can be sinless

Then you just admitted, No one can claim to be sinnless

So you just condemned us for saying we are unable to do the very thing you just admitted, you yourself can not do.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You stand condemned yourself as you judge yourself a sinner daily, hourly, and yet do not repent
or confess or get yourself right with God, because you regard it as already forgiven.

The belief in total inability undermines and subverts this relationship. Many people don't realize that it's baked into the teaching they've received.

 

[PeterJens]

Well, indeed we can finally agree this is a philosophy of life.
I pray you will lay aside this philosophy though!
If you are interested there are many true believers here that would love to teach you.
I will pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you to His truth and no another.

You obviously did not understand what I wrote. I was describing your philosophy of life not
mine.

Until you understand everything is bounded by concepts and beliefs, you will understand very
little. By Gods grace we grasp His will and His reality, but often through a glass darkly.

I got to laugh at your description of true believers, believers they are sinners who sin daily
and do not repent, is about as total defeat as you can get. And I am meant to accept these
blinding lights as conveyers of spiritual insight and wisdom, when it is Christ and the Holy Spirit
who guides and keeps me.

Double minded people to say the least, with the language of Gods people but not its power.

 

[gb9]

You obviously did not understand what I wrote. I was describing your philosophy of life not
mine.

Until you understand everything is bounded by concepts and beliefs, you will understand very
little. By Gods grace we grasp His will and His reality, but often through a glass darkly.

I got to laugh at your description of true believers, believers they are sinners who sin daily
and do not repent, is about as total defeat as you can get. And I am meant to accept these
blinding lights as conveyers of spiritual insight and wisdom, when it is Christ and the Holy Spirit
who guides and keeps me.

Double minded people to say the least, with the language of Gods people but not its power.

no, a person either sinless or they are not. there is no " sin levels". you create all these different levels of sin, not sin, kind of sin.

here is God's view of sin; one was sinless and perfect-His Son. the rest of us - sinners. the end.

 

[PeterJens]

Thank you Peter. You just proved true double speak.
You condemned grace believers saying they do nt believe one can be sinless
Then you just admitted, No one can claim to be sinnless
So you just condemned us for saying we are unable to do the very thing you just admitted, you yourself can not do.

You talk about twisting. What we teach is you can walk righteously, without commiting sin.
But no person can say they have achieved this, because that in itself is arrogance and a sin
(probably).

Now this is the hope to which Jesus called us, to walk as He did. And yes I believe I can and
do walk like this. If though I stumble, I repent, get right with God and walk on.

Now in your world that is failure. In my world that is walking in faith and grace.
It is why Peter did not fall away, and Judas did.

This is the traditional understanding of walking with Christ.

So either you are intentionally lying (probably) or you do not understand english.

But then I expect no more from a self confessed sinner like you. But then sinning
in your speech against me causes you no problems either. What a joke.
Christian? I think not.

 

[PeterJens]

no, a person either sinless or they are not. there is no " sin levels". you create all these different levels of sin, not sin, kind of sin.
here is God's view of sin; one was sinless and perfect-His Son. the rest of us - sinners. the end.

So Gods people cannot be holy, blameless, washed clean, without blemish or spot.

You have just denied the whole of scripture and the gospel. When you are cleansed, washed
you are made pure, holy, clean. You are no longer regarded as a sinner but sinless.

This is the step you cannot see because Christ has not done this work within you
so how could you know something that simply has not taken place. You show the true
fruits of this lack of reality by what you believe.

You behave like the accuser of the brethren, flinging insults and slander on Gods people
yet you have nothing to say. You teach me to expect nothing else from people like
yourself. Thankyou for the lesson, God bless you and may you find His peace and
love in your heart before it is too late.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You talk about twisting. What we teach is you can walk righteously, without commiting sin.
But no person can say they have achieved this, because that in itself is arrogance and a sin
(probably).

funny peter. I teach this also. As does ever grace believing person I have ever met.

So whats your problem? Besides you do not know what we believe.

Now this is the hope to which Jesus called us, to walk as He did. And yes I believe I can and
do walk like this. If though I stumble, I repent, get right with God and walk on.

As do grace believers, Although we may not use the word repent, But confess.. As they are actually two different words..

Now in your world that is failure. In my world that is walking in faith and grace.
It is why Peter did not fall away, and Judas did.

No. that is not failure, As I said, I would have to condemn myself Thats why EVERYONE keeps telling you to stop telling others what they believe. You keep getting it wrong, and why you get yourself in trouble all the time.

Peter did not fall away because he never stopped believing

Judas never fell away, He was a devil from the begining (Jesus own words) John 6; [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

Jesus knew Judas not only did not believe, but also would betray him.. FROM THE BEGINING

This is the traditional understanding of walking with Christ.

I am not worried about traditional. I am worried about truth,, Jesus went against the traditional view..

So either you are intentionally lying (probably) or you do not understand english.

So you have to go there do you?

It is never you.. You are a proud man peter. and for that, I am extremely sad.

But then I expect no more from a self confessed sinner like you. But then sinning
in your speech against me causes you no problems either. What a joke.
Christian? I think not.

Originally Posted by PeterJens

EG - no-one can say they are sinless, but they can say they walk in righteousness
and purity. It is only God who can judge about sin.

Thats said peter. You just attacked me once again, Yet you professed earlier, You also are also a sinner.

so you too are a self professed sinner.

Again, this is called double speak, (using your own term against you) .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You obviously did not understand what I wrote. I was describing your philosophy of life not
mine.

Once again peter. You were not decribing my philosophy. You have no clue what my philosophy is, Only your own twisted, distorted version of what you THINK I believe.

Until you understand everything is bounded by concepts and beliefs, you will understand very
little. By Gods grace we grasp His will and His reality, but often through a glass darkly.

Until you understand how to listen and read what people are saying without your blinders. You will never know what others really believe, and continue this bashing people based on false accusations.

I got to laugh at your description of true believers, believers they are sinners who sin daily
and do not repent, is about as total defeat as you can get. And I am meant to accept these
blinding lights as conveyers of spiritual insight and wisdom, when it is Christ and the Holy Spirit
who guides and keeps me.

Double minded people to say the least, with the language of Gods people but not its power.

Blah Blah Blah. Again, more lies.

 

[UnderGrace]

A sinner is a sinner because he sins. But once saved the same behaviour is now good.

Actually this is no laughing matter.

When you write something like this it tells me very clearly that you do not most assuredly understand what Jesus has done.

when it is Christ and the Holy Spirit who guides and keeps me.

Well again, you do not understand the work of the cross.

Your self-effort into righteousness is actually the first sin so not matter how good you get at not doing all the other sins you

will still be guilty of the FIRST of self-effort, only Jesus can take away the work of self-effort and make it about HIS EFFORT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The belief in total inability undermines and subverts this relationship. Many people don't realize that it's baked into the teaching they've received.

total inability to what, Become SINLESS, or to be sanctified in Christ?

you need to define your term,

Because peter admits he denies we can be totallu siness.. And no one here claims we can not be sanctified..

so are you judging peter. or bearing false witness against everyone else.?

 

[FreeNChrist]

The belief in total inability undermines and subverts this relationship. Many people don't realize that it's baked into the teaching they've received.

Your belief in your own "ability" is what undermines and subverts Christ in you as your only hope of glory. Our relationship with Christ is not that of one and done, now you go get 'r done. He has come to live in us so that He can live through us. You will never be more than a branch, so, be a branch, and stop trying to be the Vine.

"I have been crucified with Christ and 'I' no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

 

[ladylynn]

You do realize this truth below I hope....selah

We often in our modern evangelical world look at sin as only the "biggie" sins and if we don't do them ( like adultery, stealing..etc ) - then we can live sin free.

The reality is that malice and slander and hypocrisy, and envy...etc - are just as much sin as living the homosexual lifestyle.

It's interesting that some that say others are lawless ( even though they don't know their life at all ) and say to walk in purity and righteousness are the very same ones that think it's perfectly natural and ok to slander others and exhibit malice towards them and mock them.

These are just like the ones living the so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle only they don't see themselves as the same as this group - but in reality - in God's eyes...they are doing the exact same thing.

This is not living a life that is sinless.

Wow this is just so true. I was just leaving my computer to get some yard work done but got caught up in this sent in my email. Need to quit spending soooo much time here.

The thought came to mind of how we live allllll by ourselves where no one sees inside our minds it is HERE the battle really is. If we have a seething anger towards someone who annoys us in our lives and simply MUST zap them back., we can be assured this is not of the Holy Spirit. I'm often shocked at my own petty annoyances at people sometimes. In places like driving on the highway or here when typing out my thoughts about the Bible.

I may have controlled much of what I say back to people in my life or post to people on CC in computer/time., but there is much more ground in the renewing of the mind process that needs covering I see. Places where no one knows except the Lord.

What you are saying here Grace777 is true.
The reality is that malice and slander and hypocrisy, and envy...etc - are just as much sin as living the homosexual lifestyle.

It's interesting that some that say others are lawless ( even though they don't know their life at all ) and say to walk in purity and righteousness are the very same ones that think it's perfectly natural and ok to slander others and exhibit malice towards them and mock them.

These are just like the ones living the so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle only they don't see themselves as the same as this group - but in reality - in God's eyes...they are doing the exact same thing.

This is not living a life that is sinless.


Until we see our propensity to do this ALL THE TIME ., and how we NEED to always always always examine our inner motives., there will continually be such infighting in the body of Christ. I promise I'm not typing this to correct anyone here. I've just been pretty shocked lately at my own quickness to be annoyed instead of peaceful at different people in my daily life EVEN when I knew better how great it works to follow peace for the day. What you wrote here Grace777 just shot up at me.

And another thought about this is the only reason I'm able to dare look at it is because of grace and how God's grace is for all aspects of our growing up. This grace goes into allll areas of our walk. Sin was imputed unto us and now righteousness is. Which do I want to follow more. The real new man or the memory of the old that leads to a dead life?