Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[crossnote]

2 Peter 2:20-21[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,

Sorry, "the pollutions of the world" is not the system of the Levitical priesthood, nice try though.

You could have colorized the word 'they'.

 

[UnderGrace]

You could have colorized the word 'they'.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You could have colorized the word 'they'.

If I colored all the words would it help you see? LOL It's always "the other guy" to whom it is written ain't it? It was written to "those other people" it does not apply to us they say. (or so they think) Remember it is believing in the Truth (God's Word is Truth) that makes you free, not believing in all the lies of false doctrine.

All it takes is a little leaven to leaven the whole lump.

 

[UnderGrace]

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 8:36

If I colored all the words would it help you see? LOL It's always "the other guy" to whom it is written ain't it? It was written to "those other people" it does not apply to us they say. (or so they think) Remember it is believing in the Truth (God's Word is Truth) that makes you free, not believing in all the lies of false doctrine.

All it takes is a little leaven to leaven the whole lump.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is in "security" that we can have true "maturity" just like in any relationship. Knowing "facts" about the bible is NOT the same as "knowing" Jesus and the Father.

You can memorize half of the NT, pray 10 hours a day, read Greek and Hebrew fluently, be a Christian for 50 years, and even pastor a church for 50 years and still be a baby Christian.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Peter 2:20-21[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,

Sorry, "the pollutions of the world" is not the system of the Levitical priesthood, nice try though.

Sorry but Peter is not Hebrews..Hebrews is not Peter.

Nice try though.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I colored all the words would it help you see? LOL It's always "the other guy" to whom it is written ain't it? It was written to "those other people" it does not apply to us they say. (or so they think) Remember it is believing in the Truth (God's Word is Truth) that makes you free, not believing in all the lies of false doctrine.

All it takes is a little leaven to leaven the whole lump.

"They" is an important word. It means peter was not talking about his audience, Or else he would have said "You"

He is talking about a group of people who heard the word, was given knowledge of the truth that could set them free. And went to the world instead of recieving the benefits that knowledge could give them (salvation by repentance and receveing the gift of God)

They had knowledge but no experience. Which is why it will be worse for them.. Its like having a winning ticket in your hand, And then deciding you do not want it. When you realise what you had and all you had to do was take it,, its worse than a person never having the ticket to begin with.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 8:36

God's Word is His Son, which is Truth.

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.



John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's Word is His Son, which is Truth.

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.



John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 8:36

Either this is true, or it is not..

Gods word is the truth, But gods word did not die on the cross, His son did. The word only speaks of his son.

By one offering he (Gods son) HAS PERFECTED FOREVER, those who are being sanctified.

Again, going back to hebrews..

 

[royalscot]

The Message to Ephesus

2 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear evil men but have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and found them to be false; 3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name’s sake, and you have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. 5 Remember then from what you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. 6 Yet this you have, you hate the works of the Nicola′itans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

When we are reborn we receive a new spirit (lampstand) and the Holy Spirit. This message to Ephesus warns that some who have received a new spirit (lampstand) have wandered from the love they had at first. It also says whoever is victorious over their trials here will eat from the tree of life ... but those who dont will lose their lampstand.

Those that are not victorious, I must assume, will NOT eat from the tree of life ... where does that leave them?

mmm, given all the 7 churches in rev, are in turkey. and most of turkey is muslim now.

is there context some ware in this quote. etc

 

[royalscot]

I would never dispute that no one can be snatched out of God's hand by any means ...

But when did God remove our free-will?

Is there a verse I missed that says we become prisoners and hostage to God?

We still have free will and if we choose to leave we can ...

.29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.Romans 11

when did free will save you. when did law save you.

it would be a gift, that saved you. (a saviour, so why would you make this statement or quote)

24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,Romans 3

 

[royalscot]

Yes, and this is because we must willfully and consciously throw it away. We cannot fall off the ship. We must jump.

.29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.Romans 11

jump if you want.

5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."6 So we can confidently say,
"The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear;
what can man do to me?"Hebrews 13

 

[valiant]

I believe such a person can spiritually die by not persevering in the faith. Unborn is a nonsensical term IMO.

thereby you condemn yourself for such a person, having been born, would then be 'unborn'

that s your problem. You forget that they are 'Born OF GOD'

 

[royalscot]

I think the OP nicely pointed out the whole context of the passage is spiritual maturity, not losing ones' salvation. Remember, there are no chapter divisions in the originals.

Hebrews 5:11-14 KJVS
[11] Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Hebrews 6:1-6 KJVS
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

echoed again here.

who still thought they had the law. (before 70 ad ) acts 15

8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.Acts 15

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free

 

[valiant]

To fall away or fall backward speaks of judgement in the scriptures. It is used in the same way as calling fire from heaven also indicating judgment is present.

you have to demonstrate it, not say it.

A couple examples as to how the phrase is used....

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

this was just describing an event, the rider who fell backwards fell off his horse becos it was frightened by the adder. Nothing spiritual is meant.

Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

are you suggesting that these Israelites were SAVED? Just the opposite. They proved what they were.

They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.Joh 18:6

a LITERAL falling backwards. they were never saved. 0/10

 

[royalscot]

when did an old covenant give a guarantee.

16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring---not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,Romans 4

 

[Katy-follower]

As I said in my other post.... eternal security is an elementary principle

 

[Th0mas]

As I said in my other post.... eternal security is an elementary principle

I'm not reviling you, did you say the exact words of Matthew 6 in which Jesus commanded to say to pray to show that you wanted God's salvation ? Or did you say different words to pray and disobeyed what Jesus commanded ?

 

[PeterJens]

Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.

Let me talk about washing up after a meal. Each plate, knife, fork, spoon, glass, needs to be cleaned.
Each time it is washed it is cleansed. The one washing cleanses away all dirt.

But it does not purify the heart so it cannot defile the person again. It does not remove the possibility
of sin, or the habits that lead to sinful behaviour.

The temple and sacrifices are because people sin knowingly and unknowingly, it is an on-going issue
even with a dedicated spirit and obedience. But each time when conviction comes, repentance,
confession and going to God things are put right. This is how relationships work, with moods,
reactions, changes of direction, ups and downs. And God provides a way of cleansing, staying pure,
walking in righteousness. And the more you walk, the more likely you will not stumble or have
problems, the better you cope and the more consistent it all becomes.

And yes if people give up, abandon the walk, disavow Christ, there is a breaking of the relationship.
But the prodigal son may return, the foundation maybe returned to and not left alone.

I have a christian brother who did these very things. It took a year and he returned to walking with
God. The language is a warning, things need to be walked in to be real, this is not a mystic bought
in never lost deal. This is real friendship and understanding the eternal principles of creation and
the creator.

Once you know them, you have a choice, walk in them or go back to blindness and delusion.

 

[Grace777x70]

Colossians 2:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him
,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception,according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.