Hebrews Study
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This passage in no way disagrees with anything I said. Abraham was only able to see this by faith and even though he believed the promises of God he could only see these things from afar. This does not mean that he understood them. Paul tells us in Eph that that which was written before was a mystery to those who had received it. It was all shadow and could not be realized until message of the New Covenant made these things known.
P
Personally, I find your commentary to be both harsh and unwarranted. You tell oldhermit how he should have started after quoting his third point. What's up with that? In other words, I personally believe that what you're criticizing was actually covered by him in the first two points that he made. Again, personally, I hope that he doesn't get bogged down in addressing unwarranted criticisms, but that he just proceeds with the study. I found his exegesis to be fine.
If OH thought that I was incorrect, then he would have directly rebutted my assertion, directly.
He did not....and cannot...watch for yourself...
Furthermore, he does not even start to cover the first words of Heb 1.1 until his third point, to begin with.
You are more than welcome to defend his eisegesis in his stead....
Great answer but bad example as Moses writing to be most exact was well after Abraham which makes pauls statement in Eph void as far as Abraham is concerned and do we know for sure Abraham couldn't understand the english word Savior?
But anyhoo thanks for the comeback and for your OP. And keep up what you are accomplishing in the Word.
But anyhoo thanks for the comeback and for your OP. And keep up what you are accomplishing in the Word.
Like I said...OH cannot defend against anything that I assert.
He can only 'like' what you and others have to say...thus, hardly a defense of his cut-n-paste....after all, he has a lot riding on this material, as he has taught it for many years, and it would be a case of saving-face to have to admit that it could be vastly improved and re-written.
He's stuck.
P
I think that we can safely conclude, based upon many different passages of scripture in both the Old and New Testaments, that Abraham understood that his seed was to be the Messiah. Christ will be introduced as Abraham's seed before the second chapter of Hebrews is complete.
I'm sorry to keep on interjecting things here. Hebrews might be my favorite part of the entire Bible, although I love it all, and I cannot help but to get excited about discussing it.
I'm turning in for the night. Good night all.
I'm sorry to keep on interjecting things here. Hebrews might be my favorite part of the entire Bible, although I love it all, and I cannot help but to get excited about discussing it.
I'm turning in for the night. Good night all.
II. The Sovereignty of the Son, 2-13.
A. The Appointment of Heirship, 2b. “Whom he has appointed heir of all things.”
1. “Has appointed” – ἔθηκεν – aorist, indicative, accusative, 3rd person, singular meaning to ordain, establish, to confer upon one (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon). Jesus' appointment as heir was not self-conferred. In verses 3-5 the writer will list three things that will tell us when this appointment was made.
a. "When he had made purification for sin"
b. “When he had sat down at the right hand....”
c. When he was called “Begotten.”
In Daniel 7:13-14 we are presented with the coronation scene as the Son of Man ascends to the Ancient of Days and there receives dominion, glory, and a kingdom.
2. His heirship is unique in the fact that he is now appointed heir of all things which already belong to him by reason of creation,
B. He is the Creator of all things, “through whom he also made the worlds.” Now, they are his not only by right of creation but by right of redemption as well.
1. αἰῶνας – The word offers three possible definitions all of which may be applicable here. The physical universe, the unbroken ages of eternity, and the full scope of human history.
a. That he is the Creator of the physical universe we are told in a number of places. This seems to be an illusion to Jeremiah 10:12-16 saying, “He upholds all things by the word of his power,” or by his powerful word. In verse 16, the Maker of all things is the Jehovah of Hosts. In Revelation 3:14 he calls himself the ἀρχή – the beginning or the active cause of creation. In John 1:3 He is the Maker of all things. In Colossians 1:16 He not only created all things that exist but is also the one who holds all things together. “By him all things consist.”
b. He is also the Creator of the unbroken ages of eternity. Its intriguing to think of eternity as something created. Eternity exists only because God exists. It exists to accommodate God who exists and operates even beyond the scope of eternity.
c. He is the Creator or human history. He appointed the ages of the patriarchs, the age of the prophets, and the age of the New Covenant. He has directed the course of human history from one period to the next to bring about his will and redemptive purposes.
C. He possesses divine nature.
1. “He is the radiance of his glory.” His glory is neither imputed nor is it a reflected glory. His glory is his own and is intrinsic to his nature. Jesus, while in the flesh, was the full expression of deity. In Christ is revealed all the fullness of the Godhead in human form, Colossians 2:9. Glory – δόξης – suggests splendor, magnificence, dignity, and majesty.
a. His glory is his own, John 1:14.
b. He is the King of glory, Psalms 24:7-10.
c. He is the Lord of glory, 1Corinthians 2:8.
d. His glory is eternal, John 17:5.
e. He is crowned with glory and honor, Hebrews 2:8.
f. He is man's hope of glory, Colossians 1:27.
h. He is worthy to receive glory from all creation, Revelation 4:9-11.
2. He is the “exact representation of his nature.” Jesus possesses the same nature – χαρακτὴρ – as the Father. His very nature includes the full essence of divine character, not in the abstract or in the theoretical sense but in the actual person of Christ. Paul says in Philippians2:6 that he existed in very form – μορφῇ – as God. (For a more detailed study on this topic please refer to my study on “Triadic Reality and the Nature of God.”)
3. He is the Sustainer of all things. “And upholds all things by the word of His power.”
a. Upholds – φέρων – to move by bearing, to bring forth by announcement, Psalms 33:6-9. In him all things consist, Colossians 1:17. He has not only created all things but sustains all things preventing creation from falling into chaos. From the smallest particles of sub-atomic matter to the unsearchable vastness of the universe, he keeps all things in proper order performing the functions for which they were created. He keeps and sustains human life, both physical and spiritual. “In Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’”
b. “By the word of His power” or “By his powerful word.” His word is the active cause of not only the initial act of bringing all things into material existence but is also the foundation upon which all things hold together. If he were to withdraw his word, all things would collapse into nothingness. This seems to be an allusion to Jeremiah 10:11:-13 to show that Jesus is the God whose voice created and moves all things. See also Psalms 29:3-9.
D. He is the High Priest, 3.
1. “When He had made purification of sins...” In order for Christ to be appointed as High Priest, is was necessary that he be taken out of man. We will discuss this in more detail when we study chapter five. Making purification for sin is a priestly function that requires at least four necessary elements.
a. A high Priest. Jesus is the High Priest who officiates at his own sacrifice.
* Under the Levitical system, only the high priest was permitted to slay the sacrifice of the sin offering, Leviticus 16:15. Jesus offers himself as the flawless sacrifice to God, 9:14. His life was not taken by others but by his own will, John 10:17-18; 19:30. He laid down his own life dismissing his own spirit.
* Only the high priest could make atonement for the sins of the people by the sprinkling blood, Leviticus 16:15-16. Jesus makes atonement for our sins by the sprinkling of his on blood, Hebrews 10:22; 12:24; 1Peter 1:2.
* Only the high priest could enter within the veil before the mercy seat to present the blood for atonement, Leviticus 16:2-3. Jesus entered beyond the veil into heaven's tabernacle with his own blood, Hebrews 9:11-14; 8:2.
b. It requires an altar. This is the place of offering where God promised to meet with his people and bless them with forgiveness, Exodus 30:6, Leviticus chapters 4 and 5. Through Jesus, we are now able to enter into the very presence of God, into the holy of holies and receive the blessings of forgiveness. This is what was signified in the tearing of the veil of the temple at the death of Christ. The veil signified the fact that man did not have access to God except through the sacrificial system of the Law of Moses. When that veil was torn, God is signifying that through the death of Christ, man has now been granted access to God through Jesus Christ, 4:14-16; 6:19-20; 11:24. The old mode of acces has been abroated.
c. It requires a sacrifice that is free from defect oor imperfection, Leviticus 16:14-16. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice to satisfy the demands of divine justice, 10:10-18.
d. It requires the shedding and sprinkling of blood. "Without the shedding of blood there is not remission of sin," 9:22.
2. “He sat down.” There is a uniqueness in this that is completely foreign to the Jewish readers. Yet, for all of its uniqueness, there is also a shadow of familiarity.
a. The posture is endemic to that of the master teacher, Matthew 5:1-2; 13:2, Mark 4:1-2. The seated posture denotes honor, dignity, and reverence. Although these things are familiar in the role of the teacher, it is not really what is represented in this text.
b. The idea of having sat down comes out of the context of having made purification for sin. This is the unique aspect. Under the sacrificial system of the Law of Moses, no provision was ever made for the high priest to sit down in the performance of his duties at the altar. He was most certainly given no provision to sit down in the Holy of Holies before the presence of God. There are two reasons for this.
* The need for the blood of bulls and goats was testimony to the fact that it was not his rightful place. Because of sin, God's holiness is violated and the blood of those sacrifices could not satisfy God's demand for justice. Because of sin, the high priest could not be found worthy to sit in presence of God. Because Jesus was without sin, he is found worthy to take is seat in the presence of God upon the mercy seat.
* The work of atonement was a never ending process of sacrifice to those high priests. They made sacrifice often entering and departing the holy place year after year. But, Jesus entered once, sat down, not needing to go out again for another sacrifice.
* In Jesus, the work of redemption is complete, sacrifice is finished, God's demand for justice is satisfied, his holiness is vindicated and eternal redemption is now available, 9:12-25. In Jesus, God has accomplished what the Law could never do. “He condemned sin in the flesh.” Romans 8:1-4.
A. The Appointment of Heirship, 2b. “Whom he has appointed heir of all things.”
1. “Has appointed” – ἔθηκεν – aorist, indicative, accusative, 3rd person, singular meaning to ordain, establish, to confer upon one (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon). Jesus' appointment as heir was not self-conferred. In verses 3-5 the writer will list three things that will tell us when this appointment was made.
a. "When he had made purification for sin"
b. “When he had sat down at the right hand....”
c. When he was called “Begotten.”
In Daniel 7:13-14 we are presented with the coronation scene as the Son of Man ascends to the Ancient of Days and there receives dominion, glory, and a kingdom.
2. His heirship is unique in the fact that he is now appointed heir of all things which already belong to him by reason of creation,
B. He is the Creator of all things, “through whom he also made the worlds.” Now, they are his not only by right of creation but by right of redemption as well.
1. αἰῶνας – The word offers three possible definitions all of which may be applicable here. The physical universe, the unbroken ages of eternity, and the full scope of human history.
a. That he is the Creator of the physical universe we are told in a number of places. This seems to be an illusion to Jeremiah 10:12-16 saying, “He upholds all things by the word of his power,” or by his powerful word. In verse 16, the Maker of all things is the Jehovah of Hosts. In Revelation 3:14 he calls himself the ἀρχή – the beginning or the active cause of creation. In John 1:3 He is the Maker of all things. In Colossians 1:16 He not only created all things that exist but is also the one who holds all things together. “By him all things consist.”
b. He is also the Creator of the unbroken ages of eternity. Its intriguing to think of eternity as something created. Eternity exists only because God exists. It exists to accommodate God who exists and operates even beyond the scope of eternity.
c. He is the Creator or human history. He appointed the ages of the patriarchs, the age of the prophets, and the age of the New Covenant. He has directed the course of human history from one period to the next to bring about his will and redemptive purposes.
C. He possesses divine nature.
1. “He is the radiance of his glory.” His glory is neither imputed nor is it a reflected glory. His glory is his own and is intrinsic to his nature. Jesus, while in the flesh, was the full expression of deity. In Christ is revealed all the fullness of the Godhead in human form, Colossians 2:9. Glory – δόξης – suggests splendor, magnificence, dignity, and majesty.
a. His glory is his own, John 1:14.
b. He is the King of glory, Psalms 24:7-10.
c. He is the Lord of glory, 1Corinthians 2:8.
d. His glory is eternal, John 17:5.
e. He is crowned with glory and honor, Hebrews 2:8.
f. He is man's hope of glory, Colossians 1:27.
h. He is worthy to receive glory from all creation, Revelation 4:9-11.
2. He is the “exact representation of his nature.” Jesus possesses the same nature – χαρακτὴρ – as the Father. His very nature includes the full essence of divine character, not in the abstract or in the theoretical sense but in the actual person of Christ. Paul says in Philippians2:6 that he existed in very form – μορφῇ – as God. (For a more detailed study on this topic please refer to my study on “Triadic Reality and the Nature of God.”)
3. He is the Sustainer of all things. “And upholds all things by the word of His power.”
a. Upholds – φέρων – to move by bearing, to bring forth by announcement, Psalms 33:6-9. In him all things consist, Colossians 1:17. He has not only created all things but sustains all things preventing creation from falling into chaos. From the smallest particles of sub-atomic matter to the unsearchable vastness of the universe, he keeps all things in proper order performing the functions for which they were created. He keeps and sustains human life, both physical and spiritual. “In Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’”
b. “By the word of His power” or “By his powerful word.” His word is the active cause of not only the initial act of bringing all things into material existence but is also the foundation upon which all things hold together. If he were to withdraw his word, all things would collapse into nothingness. This seems to be an allusion to Jeremiah 10:11:-13 to show that Jesus is the God whose voice created and moves all things. See also Psalms 29:3-9.
D. He is the High Priest, 3.
1. “When He had made purification of sins...” In order for Christ to be appointed as High Priest, is was necessary that he be taken out of man. We will discuss this in more detail when we study chapter five. Making purification for sin is a priestly function that requires at least four necessary elements.
a. A high Priest. Jesus is the High Priest who officiates at his own sacrifice.
* Under the Levitical system, only the high priest was permitted to slay the sacrifice of the sin offering, Leviticus 16:15. Jesus offers himself as the flawless sacrifice to God, 9:14. His life was not taken by others but by his own will, John 10:17-18; 19:30. He laid down his own life dismissing his own spirit.
* Only the high priest could make atonement for the sins of the people by the sprinkling blood, Leviticus 16:15-16. Jesus makes atonement for our sins by the sprinkling of his on blood, Hebrews 10:22; 12:24; 1Peter 1:2.
* Only the high priest could enter within the veil before the mercy seat to present the blood for atonement, Leviticus 16:2-3. Jesus entered beyond the veil into heaven's tabernacle with his own blood, Hebrews 9:11-14; 8:2.
b. It requires an altar. This is the place of offering where God promised to meet with his people and bless them with forgiveness, Exodus 30:6, Leviticus chapters 4 and 5. Through Jesus, we are now able to enter into the very presence of God, into the holy of holies and receive the blessings of forgiveness. This is what was signified in the tearing of the veil of the temple at the death of Christ. The veil signified the fact that man did not have access to God except through the sacrificial system of the Law of Moses. When that veil was torn, God is signifying that through the death of Christ, man has now been granted access to God through Jesus Christ, 4:14-16; 6:19-20; 11:24. The old mode of acces has been abroated.
c. It requires a sacrifice that is free from defect oor imperfection, Leviticus 16:14-16. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice to satisfy the demands of divine justice, 10:10-18.
d. It requires the shedding and sprinkling of blood. "Without the shedding of blood there is not remission of sin," 9:22.
2. “He sat down.” There is a uniqueness in this that is completely foreign to the Jewish readers. Yet, for all of its uniqueness, there is also a shadow of familiarity.
a. The posture is endemic to that of the master teacher, Matthew 5:1-2; 13:2, Mark 4:1-2. The seated posture denotes honor, dignity, and reverence. Although these things are familiar in the role of the teacher, it is not really what is represented in this text.
b. The idea of having sat down comes out of the context of having made purification for sin. This is the unique aspect. Under the sacrificial system of the Law of Moses, no provision was ever made for the high priest to sit down in the performance of his duties at the altar. He was most certainly given no provision to sit down in the Holy of Holies before the presence of God. There are two reasons for this.
* The need for the blood of bulls and goats was testimony to the fact that it was not his rightful place. Because of sin, God's holiness is violated and the blood of those sacrifices could not satisfy God's demand for justice. Because of sin, the high priest could not be found worthy to sit in presence of God. Because Jesus was without sin, he is found worthy to take is seat in the presence of God upon the mercy seat.
* The work of atonement was a never ending process of sacrifice to those high priests. They made sacrifice often entering and departing the holy place year after year. But, Jesus entered once, sat down, not needing to go out again for another sacrifice.
* In Jesus, the work of redemption is complete, sacrifice is finished, God's demand for justice is satisfied, his holiness is vindicated and eternal redemption is now available, 9:12-25. In Jesus, God has accomplished what the Law could never do. “He condemned sin in the flesh.” Romans 8:1-4.
P
Seeing how you and I have discussed this a bit already on that Deity of Christ thread, you ought to know that I agree with you in relation to the timeframe of Christ's appointment as heir of all things. In other words, I agree that it was after He had made purification for our sins, when He sat down at the right hand of the Father and when He was begotten or raised from the dead, but I think that you've omitted something very important here (maybe you're going to address this at a later point in time?):
The One Who has been appointed heir of all things is not only fully God, but also fully man.
In other words, a man is now heir of all things in that He has partaken of our humanity and this has a lot to do with us as human beings being joint-heirs with Him.
Would you agree?
The One Who has been appointed heir of all things is not only fully God, but also fully man.
In other words, a man is now heir of all things in that He has partaken of our humanity and this has a lot to do with us as human beings being joint-heirs with Him.
Would you agree?
A
Two things I'm not getting in this section, so far.
1. αἰῶνας -- I'm a monoglot, so I have no idea what word that is. I do get it is connected to “through whom he also made the worlds," but you called it one word, and those are many words. Do you mean that's the word for "the worlds" or "world," or something else?
2. And, nope. Really don't get God may have created eternity, as if it is a thing. Where was God before he made that, if he made that? I do get God made time and space, (space, as in the dimension we live in, not as if God was no where if there was never somewhere for him to be in), but I can't see God being outside of eternity before he created it. So, nope. Not intriguing yet, simply because I don't get it. I'm not saying I disagree. I can't agree or disagree with something I don't get. Any chance you can clarify? And, if you can't, that's okay, I don't think this is one of those spots anyone is going to fully complete understand, so I'm not particularly feeling stupid for not understand the fullness of God here.
1. αἰῶνας -- I'm a monoglot, so I have no idea what word that is. I do get it is connected to “through whom he also made the worlds," but you called it one word, and those are many words. Do you mean that's the word for "the worlds" or "world," or something else?
2. And, nope. Really don't get God may have created eternity, as if it is a thing. Where was God before he made that, if he made that? I do get God made time and space, (space, as in the dimension we live in, not as if God was no where if there was never somewhere for him to be in), but I can't see God being outside of eternity before he created it. So, nope. Not intriguing yet, simply because I don't get it. I'm not saying I disagree. I can't agree or disagree with something I don't get. Any chance you can clarify? And, if you can't, that's okay, I don't think this is one of those spots anyone is going to fully complete understand, so I'm not particularly feeling stupid for not understand the fullness of God here.
O
atwhatcost,
my husband would say that you have a very intellectually, active mind, quite like his wife....
when my husband cannot answer one of my un-answerable questions, he will say that
there are so many firm things in the knowledge of God, go learn those first and then
go to the un-an-answerables
he figures that that will keep me busy for a while.
our Father in omnipotent, and in complete control of everything..
He even forgives us when we seek the 'secret things' than belong to God and
desperately desire to know Him in all of His wonderful, magnificent ways.
my husband would say that you have a very intellectually, active mind, quite like his wife....
when my husband cannot answer one of my un-answerable questions, he will say that
there are so many firm things in the knowledge of God, go learn those first and then
go to the un-an-answerables
he figures that that will keep me busy for a while.our Father in omnipotent, and in complete control of everything..
He even forgives us when we seek the 'secret things' than belong to God and
desperately desire to know Him in all of His wonderful, magnificent ways.
P
hey, OH, my question is about this.
you gentlemen seem to have it resolved satisfactorily in your minds, so no need to spend a tremendous amount of time on it, but i notice this references Ps 2:7; 2 Sam 7:14; 1 Chron 17:13; and Deut 42:43.
the last one is interesting and i hoped you might comment on the difference between the DSS and the Septuagint translations, if there are any?
i am perplexed a little at the idea Christ was, indeed, 'begotten', since there's never been a time The Father was not the Father nor The Son The Son, right? it's a title of honor, then?
i do see Rom 1:4 and Col 1:18 (among others) in support of the resurrection/ascension idea.
the fact Heb 1:5 refers to a day, i see that, too. (can that word mean 'now'?)
thanks
you gentlemen seem to have it resolved satisfactorily in your minds, so no need to spend a tremendous amount of time on it, but i notice this references Ps 2:7; 2 Sam 7:14; 1 Chron 17:13; and Deut 42:43.
the last one is interesting and i hoped you might comment on the difference between the DSS and the Septuagint translations, if there are any?
i am perplexed a little at the idea Christ was, indeed, 'begotten', since there's never been a time The Father was not the Father nor The Son The Son, right? it's a title of honor, then?
i do see Rom 1:4 and Col 1:18 (among others) in support of the resurrection/ascension idea.
the fact Heb 1:5 refers to a day, i see that, too. (can that word mean 'now'?)
thanks
hey, OH, my question is about this.
you gentlemen seem to have it resolved satisfactorily in your minds, so no need to spend a tremendous amount of time on it, but i notice this references Ps 2:7; 2 Sam 7:14; 1 Chron 17:13; and Deut 42:43.
the last one is interesting and i hoped you might comment on the difference between the DSS and the Septuagint translations, if there are any?
i am perplexed a little at the idea Christ was, indeed, 'begotten', since there's never been a time The Father was not the Father nor The Son The Son, right? it's a title of honor, then?
i do see Rom 1:4 and Col 1:18 (among others) in support of the resurrection/ascension idea.
the fact Heb 1:5 refers to a day, i see that, too. (can that word mean 'now'?)
thanks
you gentlemen seem to have it resolved satisfactorily in your minds, so no need to spend a tremendous amount of time on it, but i notice this references Ps 2:7; 2 Sam 7:14; 1 Chron 17:13; and Deut 42:43.
the last one is interesting and i hoped you might comment on the difference between the DSS and the Septuagint translations, if there are any?
i am perplexed a little at the idea Christ was, indeed, 'begotten', since there's never been a time The Father was not the Father nor The Son The Son, right? it's a title of honor, then?
i do see Rom 1:4 and Col 1:18 (among others) in support of the resurrection/ascension idea.
the fact Heb 1:5 refers to a day, i see that, too. (can that word mean 'now'?)
thanks