Hebrews Study

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Nov 19, 2012
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#61
IMO, The majority of those who exhibit good scholarship on the Forum have elected to hear and have well received OH's teaching. I have not observed that to be true of your teaching. You might do well to consider why that might be.

You, of all people, should have learned that the very premise of proper exegesis is lexical word definition and concording of the terms in question – when I demonstrated that Adam & Eve were raised as children, from the Hebrew.

Apparently, you and OH need more clinics in this regard…
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#62
You, of all people, should have learned that the very premise of proper exegesis is lexical word definition and concording of the terms in question – when I demonstrated that Adam & Eve were raised as children, from the Hebrew.

Apparently, you and OH need more clinics in this regard…

I don't know why; but when I read this post my first thought was of Edward Elgar's 4 variations of POMP and Circumstance. Perhaps you should stick with Arabic.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#63
I don't know why; but when I read this post my first thought was of Edward Elgar's 4 variations of POMP and Circumstance. Perhaps you should stick with Arabic.
Just ignore him. He is as incompetent in the scriptures as he is in argumentation. Just do not respond to him and maybe he will go away.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#64
Just ignore him. He is as incompetent in the scriptures as he is in argumentation. Just do not respond to him and maybe he will go away.
That is my inclination. My concern is that without confrontation he might influence someone ungrounded. My responses to him are more for the benefit of the undiscipled.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#65
That is my inclination. My concern is that without confrontation he might influence someone ungrounded. My responses to him are more for the benefit of the undiscipled.
LOL.Trust me, this guy is not going to influence anyone on this thread. All he does is follow me around trying to stir up trouble. I simply do not respond to him.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#66
LOL.Trust me, this guy is not going to influence anyone on this thread. All he does is follow me around trying to stir up trouble. I simply do not respond to him.
Agreed! I will ignore him here; however I will continue to confront him elsewhere.

He seems not to have learned how to use a lexicon.
 
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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#67
Agreed! I will ignore him here; however I will continue to confront him elsewhere.

He seems not to have learned how to use a lexicon.
He also has never learned that often words are often used in scripture in such a way that transcends their lexical definition.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#68
LOL.Trust me, this guy is not going to influence anyone on this thread. All he does is follow me around trying to stir up trouble. I simply do not respond to him.
I'm just curious. Why did you decide against the invitation only format?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#69
I'm just curious. Why did you decide against the invitation only format?
Because what I wanted to do proved impossible on the other forum so I had to create a BDF. There is no way to control participation on a BDF.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#70
Because what I wanted to do proved impossible on the other forum so I had to create a BDF. There is no way to control participation on a BDF.
Does a BDG operate very diferently than a BDF thread?
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#72
He also has never learned that often words are often used in scripture in such a way that transcends their lexical definition.
Then show us.

Its not as if you have even shown ANY verifiable lexical definition to begin with, to even use as a reference point.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#73
When used metaphorically the word γεγέννηκά - begotten does not suggest a beginning but preeminence as in "today I have caused you to rise." In Acts 13:33 Peter quotes from Ps 2 and says that this was spoken in connection with the resurrection of Jesus. I will spend more time on this when we get to verse 5.
oh! there's gonna be a verse by verse!

*laughs merrily at self* :)
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#75
But...


Not right here...


I must be correct after all...
I have just read hoping to learn and I have. I have gleaned knowledge of the book of Hebrews. I saw a godly way to confront one seeming to want to cause conflict. I've also seen what pride looks like, bowman, it is not attractive.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#76
I have just read hoping to learn and I have. I have gleaned knowledge of the book of Hebrews. I saw a godly way to confront one seeming to want to cause conflict. I've also seen what pride looks like, bowman, it is not attractive.

This is not a beauty pageant or a popularity contest.

Its about moving people (YEC bro's, btw) out of their comfort zone and actually learning proper exegesis...
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#77
E. He is the sovereign Ruler “at the right hand of the Majesty on high.”

1. The right hand

a. This is the place of honor and authority. In this is bound the fulfillment of Psalms 110:1. “The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
b. It is the place reserved for deity. He who sits at the right hand is Lord.
c. It is a place occupied only by divine invitation. “The LORD said sit... .” See Mark 10:35-40.
d. It is a place which confirms relationship. It is the Son who sits at the right hand.

2. “The Majesty on High.” This is the sphere of supreme sovereignty over heaven and earth. On high – ἐν ὑψηλοῖς – in high places. On high does not modify Majesty. It modifies the verb “sat down.” This is the place of rule, sovereignty, and authority and Jesus is the one who occupies the throne far above all authorities and powers, 1Peter 3:22, Revelation 1:5, and 11:15-17, Philippians 2:9-11.

F. He is glorified man – “having become as much better than the angels,” 4.

1. “Having become” emphasizes a change in status. This suggests a prior occupation of a lower state than the angels in rank of being. He had become a man. In as much as man is a being created as a subordinate creature to angels in strength, power, and wisdom, Jesus, in taking on human form, accepts the state of being that is intrinsic to that form. This is form of a type which does not restrict or inhibit the activities of angels but imposes limitations upon Jesus as he submits to this form. This does not at all suggest that Jesus was lower than angels in authority or in preeminence. As sinless man, he retains the glory, honor and preeminence that was inherently given to man over all creation, 2:6-8. It is man, not angels who is God's crowning creation. Angels have never been appointed to rule over anything. Angels, it seems, exist only to serve the needs of the Creator. Man was created in partnership with God to rule the works of God. (We will spend more time on this in our study on chapter two).
2. “Much better than the angels.” The degree of “much better than” is stressed in four points in verses 2-4 as it relates to his “having become.”

a. He is appointed “Heir of all things.” Angels have no inheritance in the promises of God.
b. “He made purification for sin.” Atonement is not the function of angelic beings.

* They cannot be high priest because they are not taken out of man, 5:1.
* They cannot be an acceptable sacrifice because they are not given a body appropriate for sacrifice, 10:5.

c. “Sat down at the right hand.” This is not the place occupied by angels

* God has not subjected the world to come to angels, 2:5.
* God has never invited angels to “Sit at my right hand.”
* God has never promised to make their enemies “a footstool for their feet,” 13.

d. “Inherited a more excellent name than they.” He is “Son.” Angels are ministers and servants of the one who sits on the throne, 14.

G. Jesus is the SON of GOD. “You are My Son; today I have begotten you,” 5. This is a quote from Psalms 2:7 which finds its fulfillment in Jesus. Jesus is God's appointed King whom God installed upon the holy hill of Zion. Just as the Psalmist said, Jesus would be inaugurated to heaven's throne even in the midst of great resistance. The nations conspire against him. The people plot in vain. The kings of earth and the rulers take their stand against the Lord's anointed but, with all their combined power they could not rob Christ of his throne. The rejected him, scorned him, crucified him, and put him in a sealed tomb. In Acts 2:22-36 Peter binds the fact that Jesus is the heir of David's throne and that God has raised him, set him at his right hand, made him to rule over his enemies, and made him both Lord and Christ – Anointed ruler. He now stands as King over all king and Lord over all Lords, Revelation 19:16.

1. It is his designation as “SON” which distinguishes him from the angels.

a. SON – Υἱός – is most often used to define the nature, actions, or character of a person as in Mark 3:17 where Jesus calls James and John “sons - υἱοὶ - of thunder;” Not because they were literally the offsprings of a natural phenomenon but, because of their violent and explosive nature. In Matthew 23:15, Jesus calls the Pharisees the υἱοὶ of hell because their character reflected the nature of darkness. Jesus, who is the υἱὸν θεοῦ – Son of God, bears the same nature, action, and moral character of God.
b. By nature, angels are creatures, not creator. They were created by him and for his purposes, Colossians 1:16. They are HIS angels, 7.

2. He is “begotten” of God. Today I have begotten you.”

a. “Today” is considered by many scholars and commentators to refer to what is called “the eternal generation of the Son” and his eternal sonship and cannot in any way speak of his humanity. Origen, believed that “today” is that timeless ever-present, eternal day which Christ inhabits. That since time has no boundaries with God, it is thus always “today.” While Jesus is indeed the eternal self-existing One without beginning and without end, this is not the point made by the Hebrew writer in verse five. The context of verse five is not to establish the eternal existence of Jesus but to declare through the Psalmist the enthronement of Zion's King. “Today” does not speak of Jesus timeless, eternal existence but points to a definitive point in linear time. Verse five is not presenting Jesus as God in eternity but as man in his mediatorial role. A.W. Pink in his Exposition of Hebrews pp. 50-51 properly regards “today” as a fixed point in linear time but then misapplies the point of time. Pink points to the virgin birth as the “today” in which Jesus was called begotten. He then appeals to Luke 2:11 which reads “Unto you is born this day in the city of David a savior which is Christ the Lord.” But, as in all cases, it behooves us to allow scripture to interpret its own terminology. In Acts 13:31-38, Paul addresses the Jewish officials in the synagogue of Pisidian Antioch and shows that Jesus is the divinely appointed King who is David's heir to the throne. The fact that Jesus is raised from the dead is the fulfillment of Psalms 2:7, Today I have begotten you.” So, “today,” according to Paul's inspired interpretation, refers not to Jesus' eternal sonship, not to his incarnation but, to his resurrection from the dead. God has fulfilled this...in that he RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD as it also says in the second Psalm 'Today I have begotten you.'” If Paul confirms “today” as the specific point in time this renders all other interpretations to the contrary null and void. “Today,” in the context of Hebrew chapter one points to the four temporal indicators which overturn all other speculations about the understanding of the term “today.” After Jesus accomplished all these things by means of his death, burial, and resurrection, the declaration is made by the Father, You are my Son, Today have I begotten you.”
b. μονογενοῦς and γεγέννηκά– In Acts 13:33-35 Paul uses rγεγέννηκά referring to the resurrection of Christ, “God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'YOU ARE MY SON; Today, I have begotten (γεγέννηκά) YOU.'” This is time bound as is designated by the word TODAY. This speaks of fulfillment of promise linked to a specific point in linear time - the resurrection.

μονογενοῦς and γεγέννηκά are both translated as begotten and are refer to two different aspects of relationship. The difference between the two words as they are used in regard to Jesus is that μονογενοῦς reflects the relationship between Jesus and the Father and is most certainly used in connection to the incarnation. He is the one of a kind - the only one who comes from the Father - the "only begotten of the Father." γεγέννηκά on the other hand reflects Jesus' relationship to the redeemed of man. He is the first in a new order of creatures - sons of God and this is the word uses in connection to God declaration “YOU ARE MY SON; Today, I have begotten you.”
 
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Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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#78
Hermit, a brief summary of the discussion to date would be helpful before we start each new lesson.

Thanks,
Billy
 
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phil112

Guest
#79
Yes. It will not accept large amounts of text an one time.
When you get to chapter 12, let me know, if you don't mind. I want to see your lesson on that chapter. Thanks.
 
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purgedconscience

Guest
#80
oldhermit:

I'm sorry to go backwards for a minute, but I meant to ask you a question yesterday in relation to the authorship question and I got bogged down with some other things and forgot so I'm hoping that you won't mind if I ask it now. I once read that the author of this epistle had to be a male because the participle usage of diegeomai found in Hebrews chapter 11 verse 32 has a masculine ending which rules out a woman being the author. Since I've never really been tutored in New Testament Greek, I have no way of either verifying or falsifying this allegation. Seeing how you've been schooled in Greek, could you possibly comment on this briefly in layman's terms? Perhaps you can post the verse in Greek and break it down for us? Thank you.