Hebrews Study

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

Perhaps we could, but, unfortunately, I don't always have the time in that I have other God-related responsibilities to attend to as well.

Incidentally, when you mentioned eschatology, you reminded me of something that I forgot to mention in my last post in relation to the timing of the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ as recorded in Revelation chapter 11. If you look back at that passage, then you will notice that the timing of the same is directly linked to the seventh angel sounding his trumpet. How is this significant? Well, in his first (?) epistle to the Corinthians, Paul said the following:

I Corinthians chapter 15 verses 50 thru 53

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

As you must have already noticed, there is a lot of discussion on this forum in relation to the timing of the rapture, but I personally believe that many here and elsewhere don't understand the timing of the same simply because they don't understand the purpose of the same. The rapture, as we call it, is not for the purpose of allegedly whisking people away to heaven, but rather its purpose is to give the saints glorified bodies by which they might be able to enter into the kingdom of God right here on earth. Yes, as Paul said, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and this is precisely what the rapture and our receiving of our glorified bodies is all about. That said, I really wanted to focus on this last trump. The Greek word for last is eschatos from which we derive our English word eschatology or the study of the last days. I fully believe that this last trump is the seventh trumpet of Revelation and the events described in relation to the same do indeed match up. It is at this last trump or seventh trumpet which heralds the second coming of Christ which I believe will take place on a future Feast of Trumpets when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

purgedconscience said:

Perhaps we could, but, unfortunately, I don't always have the time in that I have other God-related responsibilities to attend to as well.

Incidentally, when you mentioned eschatology, you reminded me of something that I forgot to mention in my last post in relation to the timing of the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ as recorded in Revelation chapter 11. If you look back at that passage, then you will notice that the timing of the same is directly linked to the seventh angel sounding his trumpet. How is this significant? Well, in his first (?) epistle to the Corinthians, Paul said the following:

I Corinthians chapter 15 verses 50 thru 53

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

As you must have already noticed, there is a lot of discussion on this forum in relation to the timing of the rapture, but I personally believe that many here and elsewhere don't understand the timing of the same simply because they don't understand the purpose of the same. The rapture, as we call it, is not for the purpose of allegedly whisking people away to heaven, but rather its purpose is to give the saints glorified bodies by which they might be able to enter into the kingdom of God right here on earth. Yes, as Paul said, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and this is precisely what the rapture and our receiving of our glorified bodies is all about. That said, I really wanted to focus on this last trump. The Greek word for last is eschatos from which we derive our English word eschatology or the study of the last days. I fully believe that this last trump is the seventh trumpet of Revelation and the events described in relation to the same do indeed match up. It is at this last trump or seventh trumpet which heralds the second coming of Christ which I believe will take place on a future Feast of Trumpets when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever.

I never get involved in any open forum discussions on eschatology on this or any other site. I find that the gulf that separates is simply too wide and there is not common frame of reference upon which to build. Remember, I use to believe in millennial eschatology. I have already heard all the arguments and theories. What I find difficult is that there is seldom anyone who is willing to look at this seriously from an opposing perspective so, I generally just ignore such threads.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

I cannot speak for anybody else, but I've always listened to and considered opposing perspectives in relation to every facet of my own beliefs surrounding God/Christ/the Holy Spirit/the Word/etc. Beyond that, I've carefully and prayerfully read the Bible a multitude of times myself, so I do ultimately base my beliefs upon God's inspired Word.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

purgedconscience said:

What I see with regard to millennial eschatology is, as with any other idea or concept, that when the foundational principle upon which an idea or theory is established is wrong then everything else that built upon that principle will also be in error. To study biblical eschatology one must always start with the foundational principle.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

In relation to the same, what do you suppose the foundational principle to be? To me, everything begins and ends with Christ as there simply is no other foundation than Christ Himself. Christ said:

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31 thru 34

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Christ spoke of a kingdom which was prepared for the saints before the foundation of the world and this is what we are ultimately all to inherit. Please note, however, that the One sitting upon the throne of His glory is the Son of man. Again, this inherited kingdom has ultimately been promised not to us alone as joint-heirs with Christ, but also to the incarnate Christ or to THE MAN Christ Jesus. When then does it come? Well, here's what Jesus said about it after He had not only risen from the dead, but also after He had discussed the same for 40 days with His disciples:

Acts chapter 1 verses 1 thru 8

The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Again, after His passion, Jesus spoke to His disciples for 40 days in relation to things pertaining to the kingdom of God. Well, what type of response did this solicit from His disciples? They asked Him if He was going to restore again the kingdom to Israel at that point in time. I mean, obviously it hadn't yet been restored, right? In my understanding, this is what they were inquiring about:

Micah chapter 4 verses 1 thru 8

But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

The prophet Micah, as well as other prophets like Isaiah, foretold of a coming day when Jesus would reign from Jerusalem and the kingdom would come again to the daughter of Jerusalem. I don't know about the rest of you, but such is what I'm looking forward to.

Let's not derail the Hebrews study, though. We can possibly address such things a little bit more as they arise in the remainder of the study.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

To understand biblical eschatology one must begin with the initial promises of God in relation to his people. If you are interested in discussing this it will be better to do it via PM. I can start by sending you the first part of my study on eschatology which begins in Genesis 1.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

Sure. I'll read it. I cannot promise you a timely response though, so please don't be offended if it takes me a while to respond. Thanks. By the way or by way of reminder, my own eschatology begins in the opening chapters of Genesis as well and I previously pm'd you a sample of that. Actually, as I just mentioned in my last post, my own eschatology begins before the foundation of the world in relation to the kingdom which has been prepared for both Christ and His saints.

We'd better return to our regularly scheduled program of the epistle to the Hebrews before somebody stones one of us, probably me, and we get our answers directly from the Lord.

haha.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

II. The Crowning, Fall, and Restoration of Man' Glory.

A. Original status of man, Psalms 8:4-6. This Quote is from the LXX.

1. Man is the object of divine concern.
2. Man's original state was superior to everything in the natural world yet, his appointment in the flesh represented a humble state, 7.
3. Man was given divinely exalted dignity, 7-8.

a. He was crowned with glory and honor. This was a regal endowment that set him above all of God's handiwork.
b. Man was given dominion and authority over all creation.

B. We are now presented with a change of status in man – “But now,” 8.

1. Man has forfeited his crown of glory, honor, dominion, and authority - This can in no way be said of Jesus.
2. Man suffers the devastating consequences of sin.

III. A Contrast
The focus now shifts from fallen man to Jesus as the instrument of man's restoration, 9 – τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ’ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον –“But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels...,” NAS. It is important that we understand the grammar here in contrast to other English translations. For example; The KJV renders this “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels.” In this verse, the KJV is the correct rendering. The τι does not relate to time but to degree. Jesus assumes the same status as the man of verse 6. As a man, like the man of verse 6, he too is lower than the angels. The stated purpose of this self-assumed status is for the suffering of death. The man of verse 6 was not made for the suffering of death. Unlike the man of verse 6 however, Jesus does not surrender his crown of glory and honor.

IV. The Restoration of Man Required the Perfecting of Salvation's Author, 10.

A. When the writer speaks of 'perfection' he is not referring to either moral or spiritual perfection. These are qualities Jesus must intrinsically possess in order to qualify as a sin offering. The type of perfection under consideration is that of ceremonial perfection.

1. τελειῶσαι (teleiosai)– to complete, accomplish, consummate, to consecrate, finish, fulfill, or to make perfect. No sacrifice is ever perfected or complete until it dies, when it is fumed upon the altar.
2. Jesus brought an end to the need for sacrifice, Daniel 9:2-27. He accomplished what all the other sacrifices of the Old Covenant could never do. He restored us to glory. This is certainly reflected in Jesus words on the cross when he said, “It is finished,” John 19:30.
3. “It was fitting.” Fitting modifies suffering, not perfecting as it focuses on the means of perfecting. This relates to validation. Jesus is sacrifice and no sacrifice ever became valid until it is slain and laid upon the altar.

B. Man now shares in HIS holiness, 11-13.

1. Sanctify – ἁγιάζω (hagiadzo)– To make holy. This is a shift in human ontology. We are passive recipients of this imputed holiness. Having no righteousness of our own, we are made to take part in or be clothed in HIS righteousness, 12:10. This represents a covering of our spiritual nakedness.
2. “Are all out of one.” What does the 'one' relate to?

a. One sanctification? This does fit the immediate context.
b. One Father? (NAS ) This would certainly emphasize the source of the relationship.
c. One family? This is perhaps better because it stresses the pride of association with the body collective.
d. One flesh? This perhaps better fits the broader context of 11-18.

C. Messiah takes his place among his brethren., 12-13.

1. The purpose is pedagogical – To proclaim God to man, to expound the praises of God to man.
2. This is presentation, not introduction. He is presenting us to the Father, Exodus 19:17, Isaiah 8:14-18. This speaks of divine acceptance of those presented. God is no longer hiding his face as in Ezekiel 39:29.

V. The Necessity of Sharing in Flesh and Blood, 14-18.

A. Its function is sacrifice. Sacrifice must be of human blood. Blood is the only redeemable spiritual currency.
B. Its purpose is to destroy the powers of the evil one. Satan is limited in at least four ways.

1. He is not permitted to tempt us beyond our ability to withstand.
2. He cannot destroy the spread of the gospel.
3. He cannot deceive the nations as he once did. Truth has now come into the world. The power of the gospel is that it exposes the deception.
4. Jesus has taken from him the power of death. The power of death is its ability to enslave us in sin, Romans 7:11 and 8:15. The fear of death is the expectation of judgment, 1John 4:18. We are now freed from the slavery of sin and enslaved to God, Romans 6:22. Death has no power where there is no sin.

C. It is for priestly function.

1. To make propitiation. This makes it possible for God to extend mercy.
2. To identify with those who are tempted. This makes it possible for Jesus to empathize with those who are tempted.

D. The necessity of an earthly descendancy

1. Flesh and blood are required for any sin sacrifice.
2. Since it is man who has sinned, it is man who must pay the price of atonement.
3. To satisfy the requirements of the law. The Law of Moses was given to man therefore it is incumbent upon a man - Jesus, to fulfill that law in both areas of application.

Thus endeth chapter two.

posthuman · Jul 18, 2015

Bowman said:

make that at least 4 - & i think, more - i'm still reading and loving it; just haven't had any comments to add and am a day or so behind.

i got caught up with another inane thread, trying to explain to a brick wall that it is not a giraffe.
as you might imagine, that was a lot like "talking to a brick wall"

please continue, i'm catching up -- and thanks again ol' hermit & everyone contributing with comments.

understanding is very good to get

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

Hi oldhermit.

Although I lean towards Deuteronomy chapter 32 verse 43 myself, there are those who consider that the writer might have been citing Psalm 97 verse 7 here which reads:

Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

Gods is elohiym in the Hebrew and it is sometimes translated as angels in the Old Testament. Like I said, I personally lean towards Deuteronomy chapter 32 verse 43 myself, so I am hoping that you can further explain how you believe that in Romans chapter 15 verse 10 (Romans 10:15 is a typo) Paul declared the fulfillment of Rejoice ye Gentiles with his people, a portion of the Deuteronomy quote in question, to have been found in the resurrection of Christ. I'm reading Romans chapter 15 now and I'm not necessarily seeing that although I'm personally hoping that it's there because I believe that the quote in Hebrews is contextually referring to what happened after the man Christ Jesus was begotten or raised from the dead. Thanks for any clarification.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

purgedconscience said:

I am very sorry. That was supposed to be Rom 15:10, not 10:15. I have disgraphia and sometimes I have a problem transposing numbers. I will have to correct that in my outline. In Rom 15:10-12 Paul says, "Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God. For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.” And again it is said, “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.” And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples extol him.” And again Isaiah says, “The root of Jesse will come, even he who arises to rule the Gentiles; in him will the Gentiles hope.”

Paul quotes all of these verses confirming the reality of their fulfillment in Christ as an already realized fact.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

There's nothing to be sorry about and I'm sorry to hear about your condition. I don't have dysgraphia (I'd never heard of it before and I had to look it up) and I make all sorts of typographical errors. If I didn't proofread my own posts at least twice before posting them, then my posts would be a train wreck. My fingers seem to have a mind of their own. haha.

I agree with you that Paul quoted all of these verses confirming the reality of their fulfillment in Christ as an already established fact, but I was really questioning their fulfillment in the resurrection of Christ. Are you saying that the Gentiles are now included in the promises because Christ has been risen from the dead in a general sense or that the passages themselves are specifically referring to Christ's resurrection? I don't know if I'm asking my question properly, so I hope that you know what I mean. Thanks.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

purgedconscience said:

Well, Paul uses the word ἀνιστάμενος here to tell us in what way this fulfillment was realized “The root of Jesse will come, even he who arises (ἀνιστάμενος) to rule the Gentiles; in him will the Gentiles hope.” This is the word for resurrection meaning to stand again.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

Did you mean to say that Jesus is immutable? If not, then please explain. Thank you.

oldhermit · Jul 18, 2015

purgedconscience said:

Yes, that was supposed to be immutable. Thanks for catching that. One more thing I shall have to correct on my outline.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

I'm not sure if my opening statement is true or not, but I once read somewhere that the Old Testament verse which is most quoted and/or alluded to in the New Testament is Psalm 110 verse 1:

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

I'm not sure if this list is exhaustive or not, but here are some citations of this verse or allusions to it in the New Testament:

Matthew chapter 22 verses 41 thru 46

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Matthew chapter 26 verse 64

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark chapter 12 verses 35 thru 37

And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

Mark chapter 14 verse 62

And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark chapter 16 verse 19

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luke chapter 20 verses 41 thru 44

And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Luke chapter 22 verse 69

Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

Acts chapter 2 verses 33 thru 35

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Acts chapter 5 verse 31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. (Several other Bible translations read to His right hand or at His right hand)

Acts chapter 7 verses 55 and 56

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Stephen's ordeal prompted Jesus to momentarily stand)

Romans chapter 8 verse 34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Ephesians chapter 1 verse 20

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Colossians chapter 3 verse 1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Hebrews chapter 1 verse 3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hebrews chapter 1 verse 13

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Hebrews chapter 8 verse 1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews chapter 10 verses 12 and 13

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Hebrews chapter 12 verse 2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I Peter chapter 3 verses 21 and 22

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Please listen to me carefully and please prayerfully consider before the Lord what I'm about to say.

As glorious as this oft repeated truth of the man Christ Jesus' exaltation to the right hand of the Father on high is, we must come to a realization of the following by the Spirit of God if we're ever to fulfill our own destinies here upon the earth during our lifetimes:

Ephesians chapter 1 verse 15 thru Ephesians chapter 2 verse 7

Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved);
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

My brothers and my sisters, do you understand what we just read?

Not only has the man Christ Jesus been raised up and exalted to the right hand of the Father in heaven, far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name which is named in both this world and the world to come, but we've also been raised up together with Him and we are equally seated together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. It is imperative that we come to this understanding. Satan and his hosts are well aware of who we are positionally in Christ and he'll do everything in his power to keep us from coming to this realization ourselves. As Paul prayed for the saints at Ephesus that God might make known these things unto them by the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, please pray the same for yourselves. We live in a fallen world which is under the dominion of the god of this world, Satan, but we, as the saints of God, are actually able to operate on a higher spiritual level than Satan and demons because of who we are positionally in Christ. May God truly open our eyes to this glorious truth that we might truly be equipped for the spiritual battle at hand.

Thanks for reading.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

oldhermit said:

I hope that I'm not coming across as being critical. That's truly not my intent. I just carefully read everything and I like to be sure of the author's intent. Thanks for understanding.

purgedconscience · Jul 18, 2015

psychomom said:

Interesting. I never knew that. Thanks for pointing it out.

oldhermit · Jul 19, 2015

purgedconscience said:

Not at all. I would appreciate it if you would point out any such typos or other types of errors. It seems no matter huw much I proof read something I still do not catch everything.

atwhatcost · Jul 19, 2015

oldhermit said:

H. Jesus is the prototype for redeemed humanity. “I shall be a Father to him and he shall be a Son to me. And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship him."

1. “A Father" - πατέρα – This signifies authorship, a progenitor, usually with regard to a family line. It also describes the beginning of a society whose members possess the same spirit as its author. This idea is embodied in role of Abraham. Physically, he is the progenitor of an entire race – Jews. Paul also reveals him as the “father” of the circumcised of heart who possess the same faith or spirit as that of Abraham, Romans four. Through Jesus, God has brought forth a new society of people who are animated by the same Spirit of God. This idea is further illustrated in the concept of “First-born” as we will see in chapter six.

2. “A Son” - This implies a relationship of submission in his redemptive and mediatorial role. “Will be” suggests a change in status. If the implication is one of subjection, it then follows that Jesus, prior to his incarnation, was not in subjection to the Father as a subordinate being or even as a lesser member of the Godhead. Philippians 2:5-11 explains very well the idea of subjection and subordination as a change of status that is outside the norm. What Jesus surrendered in becoming man was not IN-equality but equality. It is impossible to surrender that which one does not possess.

3. “First-born” – πρωτότοκον – This defines the first of anything that is born of flock, heard, or even men. Jesus becomes the first, the προς τον τυρον – the one for the pattern. He is the prototype of a new society of those who by faith become children of God, Romans 8:29; those of whom John says, “are born not of flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the God,” John 1:12-13. Jesus becomes the forerunner of the sons of God through his resurrection,“You are my Son; Today I have begotten you.” Firstborn also implies that others are to follow.

The significance of firstborn has its roots in the Old Testament. Being the firstborn son carried prestige, honor, privilege, blessing, authority, and double portion inheritance. Being the firstborn was also a matter of consecration to God, Exodus 13:3,11-16. In the New Testament, Jesus is called “firstborn” eight times and always with the same implications.

a. He was the first-born of Mary, Luke 2:7, Matthew 1:25. We know Mary had other children whose names are recorded in Matthew 13:55-56 but, Jesus was her firstborn. He was the first in the order of others that followed.
b. He is called the firstborn among many brethren, Romans 8:29. He is the prototype - the first, into whose image Christians are to conform.
c. He is called the firstborn in Hebrews12:23 to whom the church belongs.
d. He is called the firstborn of every creature, Colossians 1:15-17. He is not firstborn because he was created first. He is first-born because:

* All things were created by him. He is the active cause of all things that exist and the one to whom all things belong.
* He is before all things – this establishes divine preeminence.
* He holds all things together. This illustrates divine power.

e. He is called firstborn from among the dead, Colossians 1:18. This does not means that he was the first one ever resurrected from the dead. It does not even mean that he is the first one resurrected from the dead never to die again. What it means is that he holds preeminent status because:

* He is the head of the body.
* He is the ἀρχή – the beginning as in the active cause, the one through whose power all things had their beginning.
* He is the first one of a new society of sons of God.

4. “Into the world" – οἰκουμένην – This is the feminine, present, passive participle of οἰκέω which means to in habit or to dwell thus, the inhabited earth. Kenneth Wuest applies this, as do many other commentators, to a millennial reign of Christ upon the earth. In his book Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, volume 2, pages 46-47, Wuest says,
“It is into the midst of the Revised Roman Empire headed up by the Antichrist, that God will bring the Messiah, the empire at that future time covering the entire earth. It is of that future time that God says of Messiah, 'And let all the angels of God worship him...
' The return of Messiah to this earth will be accompanied by hosts of worshiping angels.”Still, others argue that this refers to the incarnation of Jesus. It is important to bear in mind the context in which the writer uses οἰκουμένην. The context demands that οἰκουμένην be limited in scope in direct proportion to the title of “First-born” for it is as first-born that he enters into that world.

The use of the term “first-born” is applied not to Jesus incarnation but to his resurrection. Since it is as first-born that he enters into the world in question, it must then be understood in the same context. The world then applies to his resurrection into his reign. This reign includes his sovereignty over all the nations of the earth. The time of his reign is not future but present. The scope of his reign includes the nations of the earth as an inheritance and the ends of the earth as a possession, Psalms 2:8. In 1Peter 3:21, Peter says that angels, authorities, and powers have already been brought into subjection unto him. In Revelation 11:15, John says, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” This is not suggesting some millennial reign in which Jesus will finally conquer all the nations of the earth reordering their political structures. The nations as an inheritance is the purchasing of men for God out of every tribe, tongue, people and nation, Revelation 5:9-10. The purchasing is accomplished through the preaching of the gospel, Colossians 1:5-6, 23.

Bringing Messiah into the world should be understood to be future only as it was seen through the eyes of the Old Testament prophets, not through the eyes of the first century writers and certainly not so through the eyes of the twentieth century reader. The Old Testament prophets were inspired to write of his reign as a future event. To them it certainly was. The New Testament writers quite from those prophets and make application of their words as an already accomplished event. The “world to come” of verse five has already been brought into subjection as verses 8-13 will go on to show us. This is the inauguration of Christ upon the throne of heaven. He is now the one who possesses the scepter of righteousness of the kingdom and is the anointed one over his companions. So, the “world to come” into which he enters as “first-born” is Messiah's reign as God upon the throne of heaven which is accomplished via his resurrection and ascenssion to the right hand.

Sorry. Discombobulated last few days, so couldn't handle too much thinking apart from all the stuff I was thinking. So, I'm behind (again. lol) I hope you don't mind if I work on this behind where you are. (Last time, you didn't, so I'm thinking now you don't either.)

I'm reading the online version of the ESV. It keeps putting stuff in indented quotes, like the verses come from other books. I'm guessing possibly the Torah, but it could be books that aren't around anymore. This study is about two of those seems-like-a-quote thing.

I'll leave the copy-paste verses so you can see what I mean by the way it feels like it's quotes.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?

Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?

It definitely seems like it's quotes from somewhere. Any chance you know from where? (I figure the Hebrews he was talking to would recognize them, but I don't... except from this book, of course.)

Hebrews Study

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