Hebrews, the author
- Thread starter guestno2
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
[FONT="]Thank you, eternally grateful, I was just (before) arguing from principle with you so not wisely….. I should write things down here after when I think them thru, sadly I sometimes write as I think and while in mean time it seem to be valid, later I’ll recognize that I was totally off … or even I’ll step on my own tongue with my own arguments 
…. plus my English doesn’t help either .. [/FONT]
…. plus my English doesn’t help either .. [/FONT]
Hope you read my link Fred's Bible Talk - Who Wrote Hebrews? A Defense of Pauline Authorship
Fred's Bible Talk - Who Wrote Hebrews? A Defense of Pauline Authorship
E
Thank you, eternally grateful, I was just (before) arguing from principle with you so not wisely….. I should write things down here after when I think them thru, sadly I sometimes write as I think and while in mean time it seem to be valid, later I’ll recognize that I was totally off … or even I’ll step on my own tongue with my own arguments …. plus my English doesn’t help either ..
…. plus my English doesn’t help either ..
don't stress. I can do the same. We are just imperfect humans saved by the grace of God
The epistle to the Hebrews was primarily and specially addressed to the Hebrews of the East, particularly those of Jerusalem and Palestine. The Christians there personally knew the author of the epistle, even though he did not append His name to the epistle, for we read in Heb 13v18,23, “Pray for us, for we are persuaded that we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly; but I beseech you the rather to do this, in order that I may be restored to you the sooner…v23. And again, know ye that our brother Timothy has been set at liberty, with whom, if he come soon, I will visit you.”
The churches of Alexandria, Asia, Syria Jerusalem, and Palestine, the people to whom the epistle to the Hebrews was primarily addressed, say that Paul wrote it. Cyril of Jerusalem attributes the epistle to Paul. Theodoret also states that Eusebius wrote that Paul was the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, “and that all the ancients entertained this opinion concerning the authorship of the epistle.” Jerome also confirmed that Paul was the author of Hebrews, he wrote, “All the Greek writers received it as His.” The Church at Antioch confirms the Pauline authorship of Hebrews, which was the centre from which Paul’s missionary journeys originated by Divine commission and command. Chrysostom of Antioch and Constantinople, ascribes Hebrews to Paul, as does Theodore of Mopsuestia in Cilicia, both of Paul’s own country, and many other important witnesses. The Council of Nicea, 325 A.D., and the Synod of Laodicea, 363 A.D., received Hebrews as a genuine work of Paul.
Yahweh Shalom...
The churches of Alexandria, Asia, Syria Jerusalem, and Palestine, the people to whom the epistle to the Hebrews was primarily addressed, say that Paul wrote it. Cyril of Jerusalem attributes the epistle to Paul. Theodoret also states that Eusebius wrote that Paul was the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, “and that all the ancients entertained this opinion concerning the authorship of the epistle.” Jerome also confirmed that Paul was the author of Hebrews, he wrote, “All the Greek writers received it as His.” The Church at Antioch confirms the Pauline authorship of Hebrews, which was the centre from which Paul’s missionary journeys originated by Divine commission and command. Chrysostom of Antioch and Constantinople, ascribes Hebrews to Paul, as does Theodore of Mopsuestia in Cilicia, both of Paul’s own country, and many other important witnesses. The Council of Nicea, 325 A.D., and the Synod of Laodicea, 363 A.D., received Hebrews as a genuine work of Paul.
Yahweh Shalom...
H
What do we know about the author of this book from the text?
The author in the letter doesn't refer to himself, or herself. There is no mention of a name like in other New Testament letters. However 2:3 gives us some information about the author. What does this verse tell us about the author? This is someone who didn't hear the message from Jesus but rather heard it from one of the apostles.
Now does that sound like Paul? Let's look at Gal 1:11-12. Galatians is Paul's letter. What does Paul say about his message? Did he hear it from the apostles or from Jesus? What about this letter? So is it Paul?
What else do we know about the letter? Is there anybody mentioned? What about 13:23. So the author is not Timothy. So this is someone, closely associated with the apostles, not Timothy, but who isn't one of the apostles. So a leader of the second generation.
There is evidence from within the letter that the writer is educated in Greek rhetoric. There are a number of what is called inclusios which indicate various sections of the letter. An inclusio is where a word is used at the start and end of a section. For example in Hebrews 1 Jesus is compared to angels, and the word angels is used in 1:4. It is the last word of the first sentence in Greek. This marks the beginning of the section on angels. Where is the end of the section on angels? It is just after 2:9 where the author again talks of angels.
Another of the rhetoric elements of this letter is the use of alliteration. This is where a number of words that sound the same are used together in a sentence. This comes across, in Greek, in 1:1. So what we can learn from this is that the author was an educated writer.
From where might this person be?The author doesn't say where he or she is, nor where the audience is. However there are some clues. What does 13:24 tell us? Those who are from Italy send greetings. Why would they send their greetings and not others? Perhaps they are known to the audience. If so, then the audience are probably somewhere in Italy.
Do the audience sound like they are in a city or in a rural area? What are the temptations they are facing?
These issues could be problems in a rural setting. I'm sure there are marriage problems in the country just as in the city, but they are generally bigger issues in the city. One of main issues with sexual purity in the New Testament times is temples, which often had prostitution as part of the worship. They could be both restaurants and centres of prostitution where people gathered and ate and also indulged in sexual pleasures. They were more common in the cities. Now the biggest city in Italy was Rome, and as we will look at below, it is quite possible that these people are Jews from Rome.
There are some Jewish Christians who were well known second generations and leaders from Rome. In Acts 18:2 we read about Priscilla and Aquila being expelled from Rome. This Jewish couple then knew the people in Rome and were well known second generation leaders. It is interesting that the first time they are mentioned Aquila, the husband is mentioned first, but after that, Priscilla is mentioned first. This might indicate that perhaps she was more of the Christian leader of the two. If that is true then perhaps this letter was written by a woman.
However there is some evidence that it was written by a male. Some people point to 11:32 which has a male participial and say that the letter must have been written by a male but I suspect it is equally true of a female author to use the male form as author as a standard form, particularly as, outside of Christianity, females weren't allowed to teach.
The author in the letter doesn't refer to himself, or herself. There is no mention of a name like in other New Testament letters. However 2:3 gives us some information about the author. What does this verse tell us about the author? This is someone who didn't hear the message from Jesus but rather heard it from one of the apostles.
Now does that sound like Paul? Let's look at Gal 1:11-12. Galatians is Paul's letter. What does Paul say about his message? Did he hear it from the apostles or from Jesus? What about this letter? So is it Paul?
What else do we know about the letter? Is there anybody mentioned? What about 13:23. So the author is not Timothy. So this is someone, closely associated with the apostles, not Timothy, but who isn't one of the apostles. So a leader of the second generation.
There is evidence from within the letter that the writer is educated in Greek rhetoric. There are a number of what is called inclusios which indicate various sections of the letter. An inclusio is where a word is used at the start and end of a section. For example in Hebrews 1 Jesus is compared to angels, and the word angels is used in 1:4. It is the last word of the first sentence in Greek. This marks the beginning of the section on angels. Where is the end of the section on angels? It is just after 2:9 where the author again talks of angels.
Another of the rhetoric elements of this letter is the use of alliteration. This is where a number of words that sound the same are used together in a sentence. This comes across, in Greek, in 1:1. So what we can learn from this is that the author was an educated writer.
From where might this person be?The author doesn't say where he or she is, nor where the audience is. However there are some clues. What does 13:24 tell us? Those who are from Italy send greetings. Why would they send their greetings and not others? Perhaps they are known to the audience. If so, then the audience are probably somewhere in Italy.
Do the audience sound like they are in a city or in a rural area? What are the temptations they are facing?
- The idea of a city mentioned in 13:14 might be drawing on the fact that they are in an urban area.
- There is the idea of extending hospitality to travelers in 13:2.
- There is the idea of identifying with those in prison in 13:3. Prisons are more likely to be in cities than in the country.
- There is the idea of suffering from ill treatment in 13:3.
- There is a concern for the sanctity of marriage and sexual responsibility in 13:4.
- There is also the caution against greed and subversions through crass materialism in 13:5-6.
These issues could be problems in a rural setting. I'm sure there are marriage problems in the country just as in the city, but they are generally bigger issues in the city. One of main issues with sexual purity in the New Testament times is temples, which often had prostitution as part of the worship. They could be both restaurants and centres of prostitution where people gathered and ate and also indulged in sexual pleasures. They were more common in the cities. Now the biggest city in Italy was Rome, and as we will look at below, it is quite possible that these people are Jews from Rome.
There are some Jewish Christians who were well known second generations and leaders from Rome. In Acts 18:2 we read about Priscilla and Aquila being expelled from Rome. This Jewish couple then knew the people in Rome and were well known second generation leaders. It is interesting that the first time they are mentioned Aquila, the husband is mentioned first, but after that, Priscilla is mentioned first. This might indicate that perhaps she was more of the Christian leader of the two. If that is true then perhaps this letter was written by a woman.
However there is some evidence that it was written by a male. Some people point to 11:32 which has a male participial and say that the letter must have been written by a male but I suspect it is equally true of a female author to use the male form as author as a standard form, particularly as, outside of Christianity, females weren't allowed to teach.
H
What do we know about the people to whom this book was written? What do we learn about them? Do you think they would have had a Jewish or gentile background? The author refers to teaching that is part of the Hellenistic-Jewish tradition. In our bible it doesn't talk about Moses getting the law from angels. Moses just gets the law from God. But in other teaching around this time there were some teaches that said Moses got the law from angels. It was from God, but came through angels. Look at 2:2-3. Where in our Bible does it say that the angels gave Moses the law? It doesn't! That is in other Jewish writings that were popular at the time of this author writing. What is the implication? The implication is that the readers were familiar with those teachings. Now it could have been Gentiles who were interested in Judaism, the 'god-fearers' as they are called in the book of Acts. But it most likely includes a majority of people with a Jewish background.
Another thing we learn about the audience is that the author was worried they would fall away (Heb 3:12, 4:11, 10:39). Why might that be the case? Possibly because it was very difficult to be a Christian at this time. What might make it difficult to be a Christian? Persecution was a big problem for many of the early Christians. For me, it is quite probably that these believers were facing persecution.
Now the persecution tends to come from two different sources for the early Christians. The first people who persecuted the Christians were the Jews. In Acts 4 we read about the Sadducees getting upset with the apostles for preaching about resurrection from the dead. They take the apostles to the Jewish council and beat them up. Later in Acts 7 Stephen is stoned by Jews lead by Saul who becomes Paul. Later throughout Paul's journeys he is also troubled by the Jews. So there are the Jews who give trouble to the Christians.
But there is also the Roman officials who give trouble to the Christians. Under Claudius Jewish Christians were expelled from Rome. We read about this in Acts 18:2. There are other situations where Paul is also troubled by the Roman officials. But this became particularly bad after various emperors after Acts, including Nero (54 – 68AD) and Domitian (81-96).
What do we know of the nature of the persecution? Hebrews 10:32-24 gives us some hints. This talks about the sorts of trouble that the believers had in the past . What sort of trouble was it? They had possessions taken, put in prison and some how afflicted. This sort of persecution was done by the Jews on believers in Jerusalem but outside of Jerusalem Jewish leaders didn't really have the authority to do this. So if they were outside of Jerusalem, and I think they were in Rome, it is more likely that these people have suffered from the hands of Roman officials.
There is also some evidence that this group does not contain any of the main leaders of the church in this city. In 13:7 and 13:24, we read about 'the leaders' as people separate from the ones to whom the letter is addressed. If this is Rome, and I suspect it is, then one thing we know about the Roman church was that when Claudius expelled all the Jews from Rome, the Gentiles would have needed to step up as leaders of the church. So if this is a Jewish home group, then it is unsurprising that the main leaders are not part of the group.
What does this mean for the intended audience of this letter? For me it points to this letter being directed to a smaller Hellenistic-Jewish home group with in a larger more predominately Greek Roman church.
When might this letter have been written? What information might help us answer this? For one thing Timothy is still alive. He was in prison and now been released. He was held in prison once in Acts, but not really for very long. So it is probably after the book of Acts.
What else might help us? Is the temple talked about being still present? Is the priesthood still active in this letter? What about 8:4-5? What do these verse imply about the temple still being active? Some people think that it is merely talking about the priesthood in the Old Testament, but I suspect that if the temple had been destroy, which it was in AD70, then the author would have mentioned that major factor. This places the book sometime between the end of acts, and the destruction of the temple.
There are some other factors which affect the dating. We earlier talked about the situation of the audience the problems with Nero, which happened about AD64. So if we are right about these dates, then the letter was probably written sometime between AD 65-70.
However if the concepts of the temple are being used figuratively and not in the sense that they were still active, then perhaps the dating of the letter would be perhaps in the time of Domitian's persecution and the earlier persecution referred to was Nero's persecution.
Another thing we learn about the audience is that the author was worried they would fall away (Heb 3:12, 4:11, 10:39). Why might that be the case? Possibly because it was very difficult to be a Christian at this time. What might make it difficult to be a Christian? Persecution was a big problem for many of the early Christians. For me, it is quite probably that these believers were facing persecution.
Now the persecution tends to come from two different sources for the early Christians. The first people who persecuted the Christians were the Jews. In Acts 4 we read about the Sadducees getting upset with the apostles for preaching about resurrection from the dead. They take the apostles to the Jewish council and beat them up. Later in Acts 7 Stephen is stoned by Jews lead by Saul who becomes Paul. Later throughout Paul's journeys he is also troubled by the Jews. So there are the Jews who give trouble to the Christians.
But there is also the Roman officials who give trouble to the Christians. Under Claudius Jewish Christians were expelled from Rome. We read about this in Acts 18:2. There are other situations where Paul is also troubled by the Roman officials. But this became particularly bad after various emperors after Acts, including Nero (54 – 68AD) and Domitian (81-96).
What do we know of the nature of the persecution? Hebrews 10:32-24 gives us some hints. This talks about the sorts of trouble that the believers had in the past . What sort of trouble was it? They had possessions taken, put in prison and some how afflicted. This sort of persecution was done by the Jews on believers in Jerusalem but outside of Jerusalem Jewish leaders didn't really have the authority to do this. So if they were outside of Jerusalem, and I think they were in Rome, it is more likely that these people have suffered from the hands of Roman officials.
There is also some evidence that this group does not contain any of the main leaders of the church in this city. In 13:7 and 13:24, we read about 'the leaders' as people separate from the ones to whom the letter is addressed. If this is Rome, and I suspect it is, then one thing we know about the Roman church was that when Claudius expelled all the Jews from Rome, the Gentiles would have needed to step up as leaders of the church. So if this is a Jewish home group, then it is unsurprising that the main leaders are not part of the group.
What does this mean for the intended audience of this letter? For me it points to this letter being directed to a smaller Hellenistic-Jewish home group with in a larger more predominately Greek Roman church.
When might this letter have been written? What information might help us answer this? For one thing Timothy is still alive. He was in prison and now been released. He was held in prison once in Acts, but not really for very long. So it is probably after the book of Acts.
What else might help us? Is the temple talked about being still present? Is the priesthood still active in this letter? What about 8:4-5? What do these verse imply about the temple still being active? Some people think that it is merely talking about the priesthood in the Old Testament, but I suspect that if the temple had been destroy, which it was in AD70, then the author would have mentioned that major factor. This places the book sometime between the end of acts, and the destruction of the temple.
There are some other factors which affect the dating. We earlier talked about the situation of the audience the problems with Nero, which happened about AD64. So if we are right about these dates, then the letter was probably written sometime between AD 65-70.
However if the concepts of the temple are being used figuratively and not in the sense that they were still active, then perhaps the dating of the letter would be perhaps in the time of Domitian's persecution and the earlier persecution referred to was Nero's persecution.
H
What kind of writing is Hebrews? Hebrews isn't a normal sort of letter. It doesn't start in the normal way a letter from ancient Rome starts, like Paul's letters. It contains a body of teaching, which although is presumably relevant to the audience doesn't address specific situations or questions, like other letters. This is more a homily or a short sermon.
What is the purpose of the letter? If what we have guessed above is right then the author is writing to a small Hellenistic-Jewish small group within the larger Roman church, who are facing persecution, either under Nero or Domitian, and are tempted to go back to being Jewish and therefore avoid the persecution.
What is the purpose of the letter? If what we have guessed above is right then the author is writing to a small Hellenistic-Jewish small group within the larger Roman church, who are facing persecution, either under Nero or Domitian, and are tempted to go back to being Jewish and therefore avoid the persecution.
hello there,
actually he called him few times as a brother too. It was mentioned in link which crossnote post here. So I copy and past passages from there
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana]He did refer to Timothy as “our brother” on four other occasions, 2 Cor. 1:1, Col 1:1, I Thess. 3:2, and Philemon 1.
..[/FONT]but I was thinking about that too (he referred to Timothy mostly as " my son" )
for me its still point for Apollo, thou
be blessed
actually he called him few times as a brother too. It was mentioned in link which crossnote post here. So I copy and past passages from there
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana]He did refer to Timothy as “our brother” on four other occasions, 2 Cor. 1:1, Col 1:1, I Thess. 3:2, and Philemon 1.
..[/FONT]but I was thinking about that too (he referred to Timothy mostly as " my son" )
for me its still point for Apollo, thou
be blessed
Hope you read my link Fred's Bible Talk - Who Wrote Hebrews? A Defense of Pauline Authorship
Fred's Bible Talk - Who Wrote Hebrews? A Defense of Pauline Authorship
and thank you for that. It was interesting. (Btw, I read everything in this thread.) And believe it or not, I actually manually skim through every letter of Paul, if its really ended with that specific formulation (Grace be with you all. Amen), as “your” source (that link) said and yes it is true ...
But. (there is few buts .. )
So first but… in every other Paul letters there are also everlasting greetings… not so much for Hebrews, and Paul also used to write this formulation The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write… again not in Hebrews
Second but …in that link is used as a proof for Paul’s authorship verse 25.. They of Italy salute you …. But Apollo was in the Italy too… certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy (acts18;2) yaaay he was in Italy too
… I think Hashe already mentioned this, too (or just fact about Italy)Hm, this is so hard for me….
because I don’t know if we wanna wave here with evidence pro and versus (I mean I know we don’t, you probably didn’t ask me if I read that link, because you wanted hear my exegesis)
I think, that most off heavy argument for and against have been told, or post or we can read it somewhere or heard it .. (thank you Hashe, for your input, I must take my time with your post)
I as an unnamed guest have certainly not intention to persuade someone otherwise
I mean it was not my intention for this thread.
I was more curious about who and why
But being honest I didn’t think that Paul gets some (any) votes
So that’s why I maybe overreact before.. but now I am ok with everyone choice
Ok let me just quickly say that I think that some phrasal sentence used in Hebrews and same time in other letters does not prove Paul’s authorship either. They are used also by Jacob or Peter or John. They could be common, something like we used to say in SK Lord be with you, everybody use this…
And now, I am ok
be blessed
and I am sorry for my EN
I have to say, that I don't really thought (ever) that author could be women, no offense to anyone ... I just dont ..I don't think so
I know I list among candidates Priscila (or is it Aquila? the wife? I always mix them up) too, but it was just because my dictionary told so (dear Novotny) not because I was ever consider her as a possible author[FONT="]
[/FONT]
I know I list among candidates Priscila (or is it Aquila? the wife? I always mix them up) too, but it was just because my dictionary told so (dear Novotny) not because I was ever consider her as a possible author[FONT="]
[/FONT]