Hebrews, the author

crossnote · Apr 10, 2014

Yes, of course I read it

and thank you for that. It was interesting. (Btw, I read everything in this thread.)

And believe it or not, I actually manually skim through every letter of Paul, if its really ended with that specific formulation (Grace be with you all. Amen), as “your” source (that link) said and yes it is true ...

But. (there is few buts .. )

So first but… in every other Paul letters there are also everlasting greetings… not so much for Hebrews, and Paul also used to write this formulation The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write… again not in Hebrews

Second but …in that link is used as a proof for Paul’s authorship verse 25.. They of Italy salute you …. But Apollo was in the Italy too… certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy (acts18;2) yaaay he was in Italy too

… I think Hashe already mentioned this, too (or just fact about Italy)

Hm, this is so hard for me….
because I don’t know if we wanna wave here with evidence pro and versus (I mean I know we don’t, you probably didn’t ask me if I read that link, because you wanted hear my exegesis)

I think, that most off heavy argument for and against have been told, or post or we can read it somewhere or heard it .. (thank you Hashe, for your input, I must take my time with your post)
I as an unnamed guest have certainly not intention to persuade someone otherwise
I mean it was not my intention for this thread.
I was more curious about who and why

But being honest I didn’t think that Paul gets some (any) votes
So that’s why I maybe overreact before.. but now I am ok with everyone choice

Ok let me just quickly say that I think that some phrasal sentence used in Hebrews and same time in other letters does not prove Paul’s authorship either. They are used also by Jacob or Peter or John. They could be common, something like we used to say in SK Lord be with you, everybody use this…

And now, I am ok
be blessed

and I am sorry for my EN

If it's any consolation, Apollos is my 2nd choice

psalm6819 · Apr 10, 2014

Stylistically, I think it resembles the writngs of Paul and also thematically it deals with grace. I think it lack a greeting because it was written as doctrine for all, while being directed specifically to Hebrew believers. I don't have sources to quote just my opinion.

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 10, 2014

i am sure it could not have been paul...

because hebrews says this..."This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him."

this indicates that the author...certainly including himself in the 'us' he refers to...was not among those who heard jesus...

paul on the other hand says this...

galatians 1:12..."I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

so paul heard the gospel directly from jesus christ...he cannot be the same person who wrote the epistle to the hebrews...

however the style and theology of hebrews is very similar to paul's...so most likely the author was a student of paul or a member of one of the churches he founded...

i think the most likely candidate is apollos...apollos was closely associated with paul and he was a native of alexandria...where many of the greek philosophical concepts in the book of hebrews were current... hopefully i can write more about that in my 'greek roots' thread

Hashe · Apr 11, 2014

psalm6819 said:

Ephesians is a letter that was written as doctrine for all. It has Paul's name and follows Paul's usual format.
The earliest manuscripts don't have 'Ephesians' in it, they just have a blank, indicating that it was probably a circular letter that the Ephesians later claims.

Paul doesn't strike me as someone who would write something without his name in case people rejected it. He is pretty forward about who he is and what he is doing.

And · Apr 11, 2014

RachelBibleStudent said:

Paul is the author, you are imistaken

And · Apr 11, 2014

The holy spirit tells me Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews.
If you disagree you have a different spirit.

guestno2 · Apr 11, 2014

psalm6819 said:

[FONT=&quot]It’s not just about formal layout of letter, and as it was already mentioned, "Hebrews" are not even letter, it is more sermon text.. I can't see resembles, for me it is about completely different style .. nature [/FONT]

You know, I was thinking … maybe Paul was different, when … I mean, maybe he had different style when he preached and when he wrote letters…

Actually my dad told me once, that it could be that Paul is the author, that it is his preaching which somebody wrote down for Hebrews … and because somebody else write it down, we don’t recognize his style …
[FONT=&quot]
But if it was his collection of preaching than I don’t get it, how could Eutychus fell into deep sleep while him (Paul) preaching … also Paul himself claimed … wait not him, but Corinthians, in letter to Corinthians .... second letter..[/FONT]

For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible...
(2 cor 10:10)
and
[FONT=&quot]And even if I am unskilled in speaking, yet I am certainly not so in knowledge (11:6)[/FONT]

therefore I also excluded the possibility that even he did not write it, he is author ..

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 11, 2014

And said:

i suppose the 'holy spirit' also told you to start excommunicating people over a question that is not even addressed in scripture?

you are one of those people who can't tell the difference between the holy spirit and your own personal opinion...

guestno2 · Apr 11, 2014

And said:

[FONT=&quot]Really? Just because we see things differently?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please don’t speak like that. That is same, as what scribes and Pharisees did, they accused Jesus that he had different spirit … I would be careful, you don’t want to offend Holy Spirit, I hope.[/FONT]

RachelBibleStudent · Apr 11, 2014

And said:

i posted scriptures that show that paul was not the author...or at least that it is very unlikely without some exegetical gymnastics...

maybe i should quote your own words to you...from another thread...

guestno2 · Apr 11, 2014

RachelBibleStudent said:

hello Rachel

In my case this whole question about who could be author of Hebrews begun thru (me) reading Hebrews and noticing that this is absolutely different.. and just later I discovered and I was surprised by that when I heard, that what I noticed (absolutely different style) it’s actually recognizable (by smarter than me – theologians) as a fact.. or reasonable doubt

So this was the way I’ve got my certitude (that Paul is probably not author)

Now for bystenders, (obviously, not you Rachel, I see that you are familiar with bible and Hebrews)..
I cannot put here whole epistle, but I strongly advise everyone who came across this thread to read it and you’ll see (or not) for yourself…
so in meantime, just read this short part from Hebrews (introduction) ...ok?

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high…

And now read any other Paul’s letters ..

And now again read this …

And see? No way that this was Paul …
This is so different from Paul’s other letters, and not just that part above ...
Whole epistle is absolutely different

If I read Hebrews, I am always like whoa, this is breathtaking and b r i l l i a n t (well, maybe not that much in english, but in SK it is!)

This is not Paul (not that he is not brilliant … in his way .. he is). But it’s not his style. I am still not sure who it was (maybe Apollo) but I am almost sure that it was not Paul.

Problem is, that we can not compare Hebrews to their (Apollo, Timothy, Barnabas …) style, because we have nothing from them, no script, so we don’t know how to compare, we can just speculate.
Only in Paul case we can compare. (and Luke)

crossnote · Apr 11, 2014

RachelBibleStudent said:

i am sure it could not have been paul...

because hebrews says this..."This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him."

this indicates that the author...certainly including himself in the 'us' he refers to...was not among those who heard jesus...

paul on the other hand says this...

galatians 1:12..."I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

so paul heard the gospel directly from jesus christ...he cannot be the same person who wrote the epistle to the hebrews...

however the style and theology of hebrews is very similar to paul's...so most likely the author was a student of paul or a member of one of the churches he founded...

i think the most likely candidate is apollos...apollos was closely associated with paul and he was a native of alexandria...where many of the greek philosophical concepts in the book of hebrews were current... hopefully i can write more about that in my 'greek roots' thread

That could simply be a form of speech where the speaker is identifying with the group even though he also was part of those who heard Jesus.

iamsoandso · Apr 11, 2014

RachelBibleStudent said:

i am sure it could not have been paul...

because hebrews says this..."This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him."

this indicates that the author...certainly including himself in the 'us' he refers to...was not among those who heard jesus...

paul on the other hand says this...

galatians 1:12..."I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

so paul heard the gospel directly from jesus christ...he cannot be the same person who wrote the epistle to the hebrews...

however the style and theology of hebrews is very similar to paul's...so most likely the author was a student of paul or a member of one of the churches he founded...

i think the most likely candidate is apollos...apollos was closely associated with paul and he was a native of alexandria...where many of the greek philosophical concepts in the book of hebrews were current... hopefully i can write more about that in my 'greek roots' thread

hey the path to Barnabas,,,"hats off",,,,

iamsoandso · Apr 11, 2014

Rachel,look close at "Luke 1;2",,,notice that Luke also states that all he is recounting is "second hand knowledge",,,(delivered them unto us),,,,it is the next hurdle,,,but then who is a levite who understands the law like the writer of Hebrews,,,,Luke?,,,no Luke was not,,,,,,,,,,,,,"continue reasoning the very way you are",,,,,,

crossnote · Apr 11, 2014

Another factor for why it was (ahem) Paul is that Hebrews follows all his other epistles, i.e. systematic presenation of doctrine and then practical exhortation (esp. Romans and Galatians) whereas none of the other Epistles...James, Peter's, Jude follow this pattern. A possible Greek influence of Paul.

RedTent · Apr 11, 2014

RachelBibleStudent said:

Because the author said it was confirmed to him by those who heard him is not saying that it was the author of Hebrews who heard Jesus.

I think the similarity in the books of Romans and Hebrews speaks for Paul. Both are addressing the relationship we have to the Torah. In Romans it is addressing a very mixed audience meeting in a synagogue. Some were Christian Jews, some were gentiles who had ritually become Jews and met Christ, some were pagans coming to Christ. So, much of the book talks of the relationship of Jews/gentiles, stressing that they are equal before God, even though it is Jew first, then gentile. Hebrews has the very same theme, pointing to the relationship the Christian has to the Torah, only addressed to Jews.

iamsoandso · Apr 11, 2014

acts 4;36,,,,?,,a Levite,who understood the law???,,

Hashe · Apr 11, 2014

The use of rhetoric in Hebrews is completely different from the way Paul uses rhetoric.
As for the idea that the letter of Hebrews follows Paul's style of systematic theology then exhortation, this shows little understanding of the structure of Hebrews.
Hebrews starts with a theme, then has exhortation, then finishes the theme, then moves on to the next one.
This forms, what is called an inclusio. Hebrews is structured around inclusios. Paul uses inclusios, but doesn't structure his letters around them.

crossnote · Apr 11, 2014

Hashe said:

well there is some exhortation mixed in in the didactic parts of Paul's epistles as well. I am speaking of the overall thrust. Heb 1-10:18 didactive; and the following to the end mainly exhortive.

JimmieD · Apr 11, 2014

guestno2 said:

David Allen has an interesting argument for Luke as the author.

Hebrews, the author

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