HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE NT]?

[Hizikyah]

Again - I don't disagree with what you posted here Hiz, but this one ""You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people."


How about what you've said about Paul on this thread .... despite what his Messiah said about him?


What about stoning people? Paul was also a prophet ... and what's the penalty for coming against His Annoited?

Should we get out the stones because we have a few on here that need to be stoned then ... and some post as if they are stoned.

If Messiah says I deserved to be stoned then I do, I would of course be scared but if He said it, it would be just.

About tale bearing about Paul,

just hear me out;

I will pray, if I receive an answer I will repent if Yahweh grants me repentance, however I will not go off my imagination, I need some kind of answer or confirmation form Him. With that said, I have prayed on this matter before I ever talked to anyone about it or even looked into it.

Now I never said Paul was not inspired, I said he made errors, he himself said this. It is east to tell IMO that in some sections of his letters he is reasoning, but unless he was here to tell us, we can not know for sure. BUt IMO being a jew to jewas and a gentile to gentiles is a flse measure, for I do not believe Messiah acted any different when He was eating with "sinners" and my bigger issue is with the style of his writing that stems from his education, people say "Paul's writing are not hard to understand, your unlearned" lol If I am unleaned is of no relevance, Peter says Paul's writins are hard to understand, and unstable people twist them into Lawlessness, who are all the people saysing no Law, surprise surprise the people quoting ONLY Paul, so again my issue is with his style of writing more than anything, and yes I believe he made errors HE SAID HE DID. Im not saying any have to agree with me to to say there is zero substance to what I say is 100% error and the person who says that is not operating in truth, because they would have to ignore certain verses to deny that...

I will say what I said on page one, ALL SCRIPTURE writers, Moses, the prophets, Paul, Peter, James, John,etc should befiltered throught Messiah, He is the sent One that had perfect understanding in every matter, Pater had to wait on the Spirit for an answer in Acts 10, Paul said himself he had times of weakness, Messiah, while in the flesh certianly had to deal with "all things human" but He had perfect understanding in every area, instantly.... For there is only One that Yahweh said we must hear and obey of we will be judged, it was Yahshua, if you are led by the Spriti you know that we dont alwys get answers right away or dont alwys understnd what things mena right away, Paul was human, while he was certialy more learn in in tune than us, he was just like us, Messiah had the Spirit of Yahweh on Him at all times.... again yahweh sid "My Sprit will be with Him" who else did yah ever say that about? I find it amazingly crazy that I have to promote the Messiah own words from His lips this hard when He said His words would never pass away.

I could go on and on but none seem to ever listen or reply and its past my bed time by about an hour anyway, so may Yahweh guide us.

 

[Hizikyah]

Paul was not a "sinful human" ... my ONLY point on this thread!

You don't convince people that you believe are sinning by making one of Messiah's main man "a sinful human".

And the tears I shed when I first saw the title of this thread was because I thought they were picking on you -- for which I was called a drama-queen by someone that I held dear as well.

But when I saw that you had joined the crowd in blasting GOD's Annoited - Paul - that was when the tears dried and I got into the defensive --- whereas - Kenneth can testify that I posted with & gave you guys more likes than almost anyone here.

If people don't understand Romans 6,7 & 8 then they don't understand Paul.

i said he did sin which he said:

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

15 For what I would have done, that I did not do; but what I hated, that is what I did.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

18 For I know that nothing righteous dwelt within me, that is, in my flesh. For I had the will to do what was right, but I did not carry it out.

19 For the righteousness that I wanted to do, I did not do; but the evil which I did not want to do, that I did.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

[h=1]Acts 15:5-6
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” ( Mosaic laws )[/h]Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.


Acts 15:10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?



[h=1]Acts 15:19-20
Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.[/h]

Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[ChristIsGod]

In Romans 7 he was talking strictly to the Jews and was comparing the days when he was solely under the law before Christ appeared to Him.

He was talking about his struggles to be righteous under just the Law of Moses and you can only see that IF you read chpt 6 first and then 8.

There were no divisions of chpts and vs.s in the Original letters and Paul starts out with Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? .... and goes onto explain what he went through before He was called by Christ.

He condemns sin to the uttermost in Chpt 6 and again in Chpt 8 - so how could that short ending of 7 that's addressed to those under the law be saying that Paul was also be saying in the present tense Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He condemns sin to the uttermost and then would he say that he DOES the EVIL which he doesn't want to do .... after he's told all of the Churches - including the church at Rome that sin is sin is sin and the consequences of sin are thus and thus.

You posted enough of Paul's writings to know where he stood on "sin/evil" --- so how could he be practicing evil or sin and yet be the one that came down the hardest on it --- equally as hard as John did?

Think about this. He and John were Messiah's two top men and both preached strongly against sin .... and neither confessed to be 'presently sinning'.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Acts 15:5-6
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” ( Mosaic laws )

Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.


Acts 15:10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?



Acts 15:19-20
Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.



Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

This is why Paul HAD TO GO TO JERUSALEM to get the word from James and those who were in charge before he went out to the Gentiles in Rome! ..... for those who say that Paul was wrong to obey GOD by going to Jerusalem before he went to Rome.
He told them in Ephesus that he knew he had to go to Jerusalem and to then to Rome and he was RIGHT ON!

He didn't make up the rules for the Gentiles --- the head Apostles in Jerusalem made those rules before Paul was saved and again after Paul got saved on his way to Rome when he stopped to ask them.


Yup!

 

[Hizikyah]

In Romans 7 he was talking strictly to the Jews and was comparing the days when he was solely under the law before Christ appeared to Him.

He was talking about his struggles to be righteous under just the Law of Moses and you can only see that IF you read chpt 6 first and then 8.

There were no divisions of chpts and vs.s in the Original letters and Paul starts out with Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? .... and goes onto explain what he went through before He was called by Christ.

He condemns sin to the uttermost in Chpt 6 and again in Chpt 8 - so how could that short ending of 7 that's addressed to those under the law be saying that Paul was also be saying in the present tense Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He condemns sin to the uttermost and then would he say that he DOES the EVIL which he doesn't want to do .... after he's told all of the Churches - including the church at Rome that sin is sin is sin and the consequences of sin are thus and thus.

You posted enough of Paul's writings to know where he stood on "sin/evil" --- so how could he be practicing evil or sin and yet be the one that came down the hardest on it --- equally as hard as John did?

Think about this. He and John were Messiah's two top men and both preached strongly against sin .... and neither confessed to be 'presently sinning'.

What I see in and around Romans 7 is the difference between the law of sin and death, which is the ways of the world, and the Laws of Yahweh which are all together righteous.... Being dead to ones "husband" is about being dead to sin, as before we knew Messiah most of us all of us were married to sin....im going to call it a night, yah wiling we can talk Scrip more in the future.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments,sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

(7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.)

Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

1785 - entolé - Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Acts 15:5-6
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” ( Mosaic laws )

Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.


Acts 15:10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?



Acts 15:19-20
Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.



Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:to whom we gave no such commandment:
you better se if this is in the original manuscript....

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

Numbered to the Textus Receptus:

Act 15:24 Forasmuch asG1894 we have heard,G191 thatG3754 certainG5100 which went outG1831 fromG1537 usG2257 have troubledG5015 youG5209 with words,G3056 subvertingG384 yourG5216 souls,G5590 saying,G3004 Ye must be circumcised,G4059 andG2532 keepG5083 theG3588 law:G3551 to whomG3739 we gave no such commandment:G1291 G3756


Act 15:24 επειδηG1894 CONJ ηκουσαμενG191 V-AAI-1P οτιG3754 CONJ τινεςG5100 X-NPM εξG1537 PREP ημωνG1473 P-1GP εξελθοντεςG1831 V-2AAP-NPM εταραξανG5015 V-AAI-3P υμαςG4771 P-2AP λογοιςG3056 N-DPM ανασκευαζοντεςG384 V-PAP-NPM ταςG3588 T-APF ψυχαςG5590 N-APF υμωνG4771 P-2GP λεγοντεςG3004 V-PAP-NPM περιτεμνεσθαιG4059 V-PPN καιG2532 CONJ τηρεινG5083 V-PAN τονG3588 T-ASM νομονG3551 N-ASM οιςG3739 R-DPM ουG3756 PRT-N διεστειλαμεθαG1291 V-AMI-1P

 

[kennethcadwell]

Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:to whom we gave no such commandment:
you better se if this is in the original manuscript....

Each translation says pretty much the same thing, but in different wording. That no command/law/ordinance was given telling the gentiles they have to keep the mosaic laws.......

New International Version
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

New Living Translation
"We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!

English Standard Version
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,

New American Standard Bible
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,

King James Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,

International Standard Version
We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.

NET Bible
Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].

Jubilee Bible 2000
forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,

King James 2000 Bible
Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

American King James Version
For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

American Standard Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

Best to read the whole of the context from the Textus Receptus ...

Act 15:1 AndG2532 certain menG5100 which came downG2718 fromG575 JudaeaG2449 taughtG1321 theG3588 brethren,G80 and said, ExceptG3362 ye be circumcisedG4059 after theG3588 mannerG1485 of Moses,G3475 ye cannotG1410 G3756 be saved.G4982
Act 15:2 When thereforeG3767 PaulG3972 andG2532 BarnabasG921 hadG1096 noG3756 smallG3641 dissensionG4714 andG2532 disputationG4803 withG4314 them,G846 they determinedG5021 that PaulG3972 andG2532 Barnabas,G921 andG2532 certainG5100 otherG243 ofG1537 them,G846 should go upG305 toG1519 JerusalemG2419 untoG4314 theG3588 apostlesG652 andG2532 eldersG4245 aboutG4012 thisG5127 question.G2213
Act 15:3 AndG3767 being(G3303) brought on their wayG4311 byG5259 theG3588 church,G1577 theyG3588 passed throughG1330 PheniceG5403 andG2532 Samaria,G4540 declaringG1555 theG3588 conversionG1995 of theG3588 Gentiles:G1484 andG2532 they causedG4160 greatG3173 joyG5479 unto allG3956 theG3588 brethren.G80
Act 15:4 AndG1161 when they were comeG3854 toG1519 Jerusalem,G2419 they were receivedG588 ofG5259 theG3588 church,G1577 andG2532 of theG3588 apostlesG652 andG2532 elders,G4245 andG5037 they declaredG312 all things thatG3745 GodG2316 had doneG4160 withG3326 them.G846
Act 15:5 ButG1161 there rose upG1817 certainG5100 ofG575 theG3588 sectG139 of theG3588 PhariseesG5330 which believed,G4100 saying,G3004 ThatG3754 it was needfulG1163 to circumciseG4059 them,G846 andG5037 to commandG3853 them to keepG5083 theG3588 lawG3551 of Moses.G3475
Act 15:6 AndG1161 theG3588 apostlesG652 andG2532 eldersG4245 came togetherG4863 for to considerG1492 ofG4012 thisG5127 matter.G3056
Act 15:7 AndG1161 when there had beenG1096 muchG4183 disputing,G4803 PeterG4074 rose up,G450 and saidG2036 untoG4314 them,G846 MenG435 and brethren,G80 yeG5210 knowG1987 how thatG3754 a good while agoG575 G744 G2250 GodG2316 made choiceG1586 amongG1722 us,G2254 that theG3588 GentilesG1484 byG1223 myG3450 mouthG4750 should hearG191 theG3588 wordG3056 of theG3588 gospel,G2098 andG2532 believe.G4100
Act 15:8 AndG2532 God,G2316 which knoweth the hearts,G2589 bare them witness,G3140 G846 givingG1325 themG846 theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 even asG2531 he did unto us;G2254
Act 15:9 AndG2532 put no differenceG1252 G3762 betweenG3342(G5037) usG2257 andG2532 them,G846 purifyingG2511 theirG846 heartsG2588 by faith.G4102
Act 15:10 NowG3568 thereforeG3767 whyG5101 temptG3985 ye God,G2316 to putG2007 a yokeG2218 uponG1909 theG3588 neckG5137 of theG3588 disciples,G3101 whichG3739 neitherG3777 ourG2257 fathersG3962 norG3777 weG2249 were ableG2480 to bear?G941
Act 15:11 ButG235 we believeG4100 that throughG1223 theG3588 graceG5485 of theG3588 LordG2962 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 we shall be saved,G4982 even as they.G2596 G3739 G5158 G2548
Act 15:12 ThenG1161 allG3956 theG3588 multitudeG4128 kept silence,G4601 andG2532 gave audienceG191 to BarnabasG921 andG2532 Paul,G3972 declaringG1834 whatG3745 miraclesG4592 andG2532 wondersG5059 GodG2316 had wroughtG4160 amongG1722 theG3588 GentilesG1484 byG1223 them.G846
Act 15:13 AndG1161 after theyG846 had held their peace,G4601 JamesG2385 answered,G611 saying,G3004 MenG435 and brethren,G80 hearkenG191 unto me:G3450
Act 15:14 SimeonG4826 hath declaredG1834 howG2531 GodG2316 at the firstG4412 did visitG1980 the Gentiles,G1484 to takeG2983 out ofG1537 them a peopleG2992 forG1909 hisG848 name.G3686
Act 15:15 AndG2532 to thisG5129 agreeG4856 theG3588 wordsG3056 of theG3588 prophets;G4396 asG2531 it is written,G1125
Act 15:16 AfterG3326 thisG5023 I will return,G390 andG2532 will build againG456 theG3588 tabernacleG4633 of David,G1138 which is fallen down;G4098 andG2532 I will build againG456 theG3588 ruinsG2679 thereof,G846 andG2532 I will set it up:G461 G846
Act 15:17 ThatG3704 theG3588 residueG2645 of menG444 might seek afterG1567 G302 theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 allG3956 theG3588 Gentiles,G1484 uponG1909 whomG3739 myG3450 nameG3686 is called,G1941 saith(G3004 G846) the Lord,G2962 who doethG4160 allG3956 these things.G5023
Act 15:18 KnownG1110 unto GodG2316 areG2076 allG3956 hisG848 worksG2041 fromG575 the beginning of the world.G165
Act 15:19 WhereforeG1352 myG1473 sentence is,G2919 that we troubleG3926 notG3361 them, which fromG575 among theG3588 GentilesG1484 are turnedG1994 toG1909 God:G2316
Act 15:20 ButG235 that we writeG1989 unto them,G846 that they abstainG567 fromG575 pollutionsG234 of idols,G1497 andG2532 from fornication,G4202 andG2532 from things strangled,G4156 andG2532 from blood.G129
Act 15:21 ForG1063 MosesG3475 of old timeG1537 G744 G1074 hathG2192 in every cityG2596 G4172 them that preachG2784 him,G846 being readG314 inG1722 theG3588 synagoguesG4864 everyG2596 G3956 sabbath day.G4521
Act 15:22 ThenG5119 pleasedG1380 it theG3588 apostlesG652 andG2532 elders,G4245 withG4862 theG3588 wholeG3650 church,G1577 to sendG3992 chosenG1586 menG435 ofG1537 their own companyG846 toG1519 AntiochG490 withG4862 PaulG3972 andG2532 Barnabas;G921 namely, JudasG2455 surnamedG1941 Barsabas,G923 andG2532 Silas,G4609 chiefG2233 menG435 amongG1722 theG3588 brethren:G80
Act 15:23 And they wroteG1125 letters byG1223 themG848 after this manner;G3592 TheG3588 apostlesG652 and eldersG4245 andG2532 brethrenG80 send greetingG5463 unto theG3588 brethrenG80 whichG3588 are ofG1537 the GentilesG1484 inG2596 AntiochG490 andG2532 SyriaG4947 andG2532 Cilicia:G2791
Act 15:24 Forasmuch asG1894 we have heard,G191 thatG3754 certainG5100 which went outG1831 fromG1537 usG2257 have troubledG5015 youG5209 with words,G3056 subvertingG384 yourG5216 souls,G5590 saying,G3004 Ye must be circumcised,G4059 andG2532 keepG5083 theG3588 law:G3551 to whomG3739 we gave no such commandment:G1291 G3756
Act 15:25 It seemed goodG1380 unto us,G2254 being assembledG1096 with one accord,G3661 to sendG3992 chosenG1586 menG435 untoG4314 youG5209 withG4862 ourG2257 belovedG27 BarnabasG921 andG2532 Paul,G3972
Act 15:26 MenG444 that have hazardedG3860 theirG848 livesG5590 forG5228 theG3588 nameG3686 of ourG2257 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ.G5547
Act 15:27 We have sentG649 thereforeG3767 JudasG2455 andG2532 Silas,G4609 whoG846 shall alsoG2532 tellG518 you theG3588 same thingsG846 by mouth.G1223 G3056
Act 15:28 ForG1063 it seemed goodG1380 to theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 andG2532 to us,G2254 to layG2007 upon youG5213 noG3367 greaterG4119 burdenG922 thanG4133 theseG5130 necessary things;G1876
Act 15:29 That ye abstainG567 from meats offered to idols,G1494 andG2532 from blood,G129 andG2532 from things strangled,G4156 andG2532 from fornication:G4202 fromG1537 whichG3739 if ye keepG1301 yourselves,G1438 ye shall doG4238 well.G2095 Fare ye well.G4517
Act 15:30 SoG3767 when theyG3588 were(G3303) dismissed,G630 they cameG2064 toG1519 Antioch:G490 andG2532 when they had gathered the multitude together,G4863 G3588 G4128 they deliveredG1929 theG3588 epistle:G1992
Act 15:31 Which whenG1161 they had read,G314 they rejoicedG5463 forG1909 theG3588 consolation.G3874
Act 15:32 AndG5037 JudasG2455 andG2532 Silas,G4609 beingG5607 prophetsG4396 alsoG2532 themselves,G848 exhortedG3870 theG3588 brethrenG80 withG1223 manyG4183 words,G3056 andG2532 confirmedG1991 them.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

First Peter and then James -

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
Act 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Act 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes Peter spoke first on the issue, then James after they all had come together and discussed the matter.
Then notice in verses 25 and 27 that they sent out Paul, Barnabas, Judas, and Silas to send this out to the gentiles what they determined for them to keep.......

First Peter and then James -

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
Act 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Act 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Peter says Paul's writins are hard to understand, and unstable people twist them into Lawlessness, who are all the people saysing no Law, surprise surprise the people quoting ONLY Paul, so again my issue is with his style of writing more than anything, and yes I believe he made errors HE SAID HE DID. Im not saying any have to agree with me to to say there is zero substance to what I say is 100% error and the person who says that is not operating in truth, because they would have to ignore certain verses to deny that...

Peter had no problem understanding Paul's writings, as you can see that he was at the Jerusalem Counsel - knowing what message he sent out with Paul and Barnabas, as you've read from Acts. But Peter is saying that those that are unlearned and unstable twist/pervert Paul's words. We've all seen this happen with Paul's words on here and other places.

Some using grace for antinominism and others to bring Gentiles under the law and others to claim Paul was a sinner and others that claim that Paul was preaching against the law altogether. Peter knew Paul's doctrine and was saying that it was "Scripture" and was blessed by those in Jerusalem and sent out ... more than once.
So if people use Paul to promote "lawlessness" it's not Paul's, Peter's nor James' fault but the false accusers of the Apostles.

So where did Paul say "he made errors" - as you said he did, Hiz?

I will say what I said on page one, ALL SCRIPTURE writers, Moses, the prophets, Paul, Peter, James, John,etc should befiltered throught Messiah, He is the sent One that had perfect understanding in every matter, Peter had to wait on the Spirit for an answer in Acts 10, Paul said himself he had times of weakness, Messiah, while in the flesh certianly had to deal with "all things human" but He had perfect understanding in every area, instantly.... For there is only One that Yahweh said we must hear and obey of we will be judged, it was Yahshua, if you are led by the Spriti you know that we dont alwys get answers right away or dont alwys understnd what things mena right away, Paul was human, while he was certialy more learn in in tune than us, he was just like us, Messiah had the Spirit of Yahweh on Him at all times.... again yahweh sid "My Sprit will be with Him" who else did yah ever say that about? I find it amazingly crazy that I have to promote the Messiah own words from His lips this hard when He said His words would never pass away.

How do we learn about Messiah except through the Scriptures about Him written by the men that HE chose to write about Him? How do we "filter" all that they wrote through Messiah? .... especially since HE assigned these men to write "the Word of GOD"? Unless you feel the N.T. is not inerrant and then it's not the Word of GOD?

Paul's "weakness" as you call it was in his body!! More than likely his eyes and even the more - the beatings, floggings, ship-wrecked and had to stay afloat a few times, went hungry, cold, and stonings, etc that he bore - the man was physically a wreck but his faith stayed strong - but he did say that to die is gain and that he was betwixt the two - to leave his body or stay but knew he should stay for the Church. If any of us went through what he descibed in 2Corth11 I say we couldn't take it!

I find it amazingly crazy that I have to promote the Messiah own words from His lips this hard when He said His words would never pass away.

Are you saying that our N.T. is not the Words of Messiah? Is not the N.T. what we are to filter everything we believe through in order to know the Mind of Messiah? What changed when He came and by His death and resurrection?

How do we "hear from" Him if not by His Word? So again - Do you not believe that the N.T. that you quote enough is The Word of GOD? And the Word that we "filter" everything by?

Yes, they were all as human as Elijah was - but what they wrote [as Elin said] was The Word of God and they all were as perfect as humanly possible --- elsewise - Paul and the other N.T. writers could never use the word "perfect" as many times as they did - nor could they demand of us to "be ye Holy for I am Holy, saith The LORD".

The N.T. is filled with that word - though a few different Greek words for it - "PERFECT". How could the N.T. writers use that word "perfect" unless they were living up to it themselves --- From Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." --- and especially Paul that used that word 'perfect' the most?

Yes, I do pray and have been praying that you pray about your accusations against the one man that could have backed your belief in living a holy life as much as - if not more than even John.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Yes Peter spoke first on the issue, then James after they all had come together and discussed the matter.
Then notice in verses 25 and 27 that they sent out Paul, Barnabas, Judas, and Silas to send this out to the gentiles what they determined for them to keep.......

And again, why he stopped at Jerusalem - knowing he was ultimately called to go to the Gentiles in Rome ....

Act 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
Act 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him [Paul], Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

[ChristIsGod]

[video=youtube;5A4jlirgJzA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A4jlirgJzA[/video]


Excerpt from - The Agony and Ecstasy of Paul in Romans 9-11

# Numerical Index of Audio Teachings | Art Katz Ministries




​

 

[Hizikyah]

Each translation says pretty much the same thing, but in different wording. That no command/law/ordinance was given telling the gentiles they have to keep the mosaic laws.......

So this is just me. The first thing I wondered was, why is there different readings... and why, whichever one is not original, was the other one added or taken away... for what agenda? The Creator does not need people to add to or take away words from His mouth. JMO. (shall not add to or take away...)

and this is not to you Kenneth because I don't believe you believe it's the total, but in a general sense, is this passage the total of what one in Messiah is expected to do, or is this the criteria to enter the place of worship, because if this were the total sealing would be ok. and what about "no blood" why is that one not upheld amongst most? Im told by one that has been changed or done away, seem like a lot of changing and doing away from a God who doesn't change.... Just some thoughts

and just using this would be ignoring the 2 Great Messiah spoke of;

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[Hizikyah]

If Messiah says I deserved to be stoned then I do, I would of course be scared but if He said it, it would be just.

About tale bearing about Paul,

just hear me out;

I will pray, if I receive an answer I will repent if Yahweh grants me repentance, however I will not go off my imagination, I need some kind of answer or confirmation form Him. With that said, I have prayed on this matter before I ever talked to anyone about it or even looked into it.

Now I never said Paul was not inspired, I said he made errors, he himself said this. It is east to tell IMO that in some sections of his letters he is reasoning, but unless he was here to tell us, we can not know for sure. BUt IMO being a jew to jewas and a gentile to gentiles is a flse measure, for I do not believe Messiah acted any different when He was eating with "sinners" and my bigger issue is with the style of his writing that stems from his education, people say "Paul's writing are not hard to understand, your unlearned" lol If I am unleaned is of no relevance, Peter says Paul's writins are hard to understand, and unstable people twist them into Lawlessness, who are all the people saysing no Law, surprise surprise the people quoting ONLY Paul, so again my issue is with his style of writing more than anything, and yes I believe he made errors HE SAID HE DID. Im not saying any have to agree with me to to say there is zero substance to what I say is 100% error and the person who says that is not operating in truth, because they would have to ignore certain verses to deny that...

I will say what I said on page one, ALL SCRIPTURE writers, Moses, the prophets, Paul, Peter, James, John,etc should befiltered throught Messiah, He is the sent One that had perfect understanding in every matter, Pater had to wait on the Spirit for an answer in Acts 10, Paul said himself he had times of weakness, Messiah, while in the flesh certianly had to deal with "all things human" but He had perfect understanding in every area, instantly.... For there is only One that Yahweh said we must hear and obey of we will be judged, it was Yahshua, if you are led by the Spriti you know that we dont alwys get answers right away or dont alwys understnd what things mena right away, Paul was human, while he was certialy more learn in in tune than us, he was just like us, Messiah had the Spirit of Yahweh on Him at all times.... again yahweh sid "My Sprit will be with Him" who else did yah ever say that about? I find it amazingly crazy that I have to promote the Messiah own words from His lips this hard when He said His words would never pass away.

I could go on and on but none seem to ever listen or reply and its past my bed time by about an hour anyway, so may Yahweh guide us.

Peter had no problem understanding Paul's writings, as you can see that he was at the Jerusalem Counsel - knowing what message he sent out with Paul and Barnabas, as you've read from Acts. But Peter is saying that those that are unlearned and unstable twist/pervert Paul's words. We've all seen this happen with Paul's words on here and other places.

And he also says those words have "some things in them that are hard to understand" then he goes on to say, "which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction" meaning things in them are hard to understand "which" the unlearned twist, which you illustrate here;

Some using grace for antinominism and others to bring Gentiles under the law and others to claim Paul was a sinner and others that claim that Paul was preaching against the law altogether. Peter knew Paul's doctrine and was saying that it was "Scripture" and was blessed by those in Jerusalem and sent out ... more than once. So if people use Paul to promote "lawlessness" it's not Paul's, Peter's nor James' fault but the false accusers of the Apostles.

others to claim Paul was a sinner

If by "some claim" you mean Paul himself then yes, now this is not to say Paul is evil or wrong, but every humans sins, except our perfect example, Yahshua (Jesus).

i said he did sin which he said:

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

15 For what I would have done, that I did not do; but what I hated, that is what I did.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

18 For I know that nothing righteous dwelt within me, that is, in my flesh. For I had the will to do what was right, but I did not carry it out.

19 For the righteousness that I wanted to do, I did not do; but the evil which I did not want to do, that I did.

Seems you want to say Paul did not sin, even when he says he did.... SO Im thining you made you own doctrine in this instead of allowing Scripture to interpret itself.

So if people use Paul to promote "lawlessness" it's not Paul's, Peter's nor James' fault but the false accusers of the Apostles.

So is the error in the people who "use Paul to promote "lawlessness" or in "the false accusers of the Apostles" seem like you bunched up two different ideas and blamed them one one "group" or "person" in your mind? IDK, maybe im misunderstanding you here.

That is why I said: (SO it seems in some points you are agreeing and then using those same points or similar points to say Im worng, not that you agree with everything I exploring in this matter, but rather in this particular matter)

Peter says Paul's writins are hard to understand, and unstable people twist them into Lawlessness, who are all the people saysing no Law, surprise surprise the people quoting ONLY Paul,

So where did Paul say "he made errors" - as you said he did, Hiz?

Romans 13:1-2, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

Hosea 8:4, "They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction."

i said he did sin which he said:

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

15 For what I would have done, that I did not do; but what I hated, that is what I did.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

18 For I know that nothing righteous dwelt within me, that is, in my flesh. For I had the will to do what was right, but I did not carry it out.

19 For the righteousness that I wanted to do, I did not do; but the evil which I did not want to do, that I did.

How do we learn about Messiah except through the Scriptures about Him written by the men that HE chose to write about Him? How do we "filter" all that they wrote through Messiah? .... especially since HE assigned these men to write "the Word of GOD"? Unless you feel the N.T. is not inerrant and then it's not the Word of GOD?

Paul's "weakness" as you call it was in his body!! More than likely his eyes and even the more - the beatings, floggings, ship-wrecked and had to stay afloat a few times, went hungry, cold, and stonings, etc that he bore - the man was physically a wreck but his faith stayed strong - but he did say that to die is gain and that he was betwixt the two - to leave his body or stay but knew he should stay for the Church. If any of us went through what he descibed in 2Corth11 I say we couldn't take it!

Why did "the Seent One" ever prech then? If His words that came from His lips were no high or lower than any on the others, why was this written:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

This is clearly showing His words are above ANY OTHERS IN SCRITURE Moses, the prophets, Paul, Peter, James, John,etc Messiah explained everything perfectly. It is crazt to me that I must contend for His words.... For are followers of Messiah called "Christians" or "Peterians" pr "Paulians" or "Jameses" etc.... "Christians" because of Jesus Christ...

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Are you saying that our N.T. is not the Words of Messiah? Is not the N.T. what we are to filter everything we believe through in order to know the Mind of Messiah? What changed when He came and by His death and resurrection?

How do we "hear from" Him if not by His Word? So again - Do you not believe that the N.T. that you quote enough is The Word of GOD? And the Word that we "filter" everything by?

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "...I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him..."

They are the words of YHWH. And yes all "NT" Scripture is a revelaing and explanation of the "OT" Scriptures.

You asked, "What changed when He came and by His death and resurrection?" To me doctrine wise, nothing beyond the perfect Sacrifice had been complete and thus there was no longer a reason for a earthly priesthood or sacrifice. His teaching did not change, for He said,

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you."

However Im told that "no Jesus didnt have the full revelation, you know He was God in the flesh but He didnt have the teachings, those came after." Not to say thatanything that came after was not beneficail, because it is, greatly, but there is nothing that should CHANGE as far as doctrine goes/His teaching, what I mean is nothing He sadi is abolished or altered. Now many *people* say yes things were changed, this is in direct violatoion of the Messiah's own words....

Yes, I do pray and have been praying that you pray about your accusations against the one man that could have backed your belief in living a holy life as much as - if not more than even John.

John? His writings are great and helps to, as Paul says "throughly furnish every man for righteous work" as do all Scripture writers, but there is only One Messiah, for their writing lead us to Him... and He leads us to the Father.

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

Yes, they were all as human as Elijah was - but what they wrote [as Elin said] was The Word of God and they all were as perfect as humanly possible --- elsewise - Paul and the other N.T. writers could never use the word "perfect" as many times as they did - nor could they demand of us to "be ye Holy for I am Holy, saith The LORD".

The N.T. is filled with that word - though a few different Greek words for it - "PERFECT". How could the N.T. writers use that word "perfect" unless they were living up to it themselves --- From Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." --- and especially Paul that used that word 'perfect' the most?

You said it, "as perfect as humanly possible" Yeah Yliyah (Elijah) was amazing, but you know what he was not the "Sent One" and certianly Yliyah sinned and made mistakes too, for there is only one that carried everything in perfection, perfect walk, perfect understanding, perfect teaching and that is wht it is written:

" My words, which He speaks in My Name"

That is why the Savior said:

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

 

[Brainfreeze]

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

18 For I know that nothing righteous dwelt within me, that is, in my flesh. For I had the will to do what was right, but I did not carry it out.

He's speaking of the war inside of a righteous man... A sinner that does not have the Holy Spirit and is not born again, does not war... but a righteous man who is freed from the stronghold of sin, still wars with the flesh.. Why there's grace, through faith..

 

[Hizikyah]

He's speaking of the war inside of a righteous man... A sinner that does not have the Holy Spirit and is not born again, does not war... but a righteous man who is freed from the stronghold of sin, still wars with the flesh.. Why there's grace, through faith..

Dang why did you cut some verses out of my reply?

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

15 For what I would have done, that I did not do; but what I hated, that is what I did.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

18 For I know that nothing righteous dwelt within me, that is, in my flesh. For I had the will to do what was right, but I did not carry it out.

19 For the righteousness that I wanted to do, I did not do; but the evil which I did not want to do, that I did.

I understand he is saying that, however that does not men he did not sin, "but what I hated, that is what I did."

15 For what I would have done, that I did not do; but what I hated, that is what I did.

This is insane to me, I have to say this next thing to illustrate the absudity, I AM NOT SAYING THIS LITERALLY, there is ONLY ONE MESSIAH and that is Yahshua. (also not implying you believe, just saying so you don;t get the wrong idea)

If Paul didn't sin why was he not the Messiah? Of course he sinned.... He needed the Messiah just like we do, his writings are supposed to lead us to Messiah, not supposed lead us to anything else..... (I know you believe otherwise, not implying you, just stating generally)

 

[Hizikyah]

..

So do you take this post/thinking is flesh or Spirit based? I ask sincerely, for I want your view in this matter.

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.

Now I am not claiming I do all this or do it perfectly, by this is what the Spirit tells me;

Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31

"When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father."

So when I have abundance or "harvest" I should give some to the needy, maybe every time I go grocery shopping I should count a portion of that to give to the less fortunate...


"You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh."

When I read this I think, in no way shape or form should I lie, use depict, or anything of that nature, especially being a follower of Yahweh, I have to uphold a higher stand aka be a "light" to others.


"You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight."

Not defraud or rob, of course, even a atheist can understand that, but when I hear "Do not hold back the wages" that one, man the effects, what if I owe someone money and they are counting on it, and I do not pay them when I say... It could be devastating to them, for what if they had rent to pay and children, and because I didn't pay them on time they were going to lose their house, or couldn't feed their children and it led them to do something that caused further harm to their family and others... I would not want to be responsible for the, it could be a terrible domino effect... No I have always known since a child I should keep my word, however this, not pay a man on time having a terrible domino effect, I never thought of this until I read (in the Spirit) and prayed, it made me realize.... thank Yahweh I have come to know Him.

"Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh."

Wow now this one could be applied to so so many things, the foremost that come to mind are placing temptation in front of a fellow human, which I would never want to do, but also in any way doing something that could make them error in life, now I know the popular one is, Oh my you can't tell them that Scripture, thats too much, since when is a truth of Yah a stumblingblock? I can only speak for myself but I wish a had people clearly tell me the truth and not lie to me or coddle me, as I would have liked to and want to know as much truth as possible...


"Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly."

Now Yaaqob (James) explains this one amazingly well: Yaaqob (James) 2:1-4, "My brothers, do not hold the faith of our glorious King, Yahshua Messiah, with respect of persons. For suppose there comes into your congregation a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should come in also a poor man in filthy clothing; And if you pay special attention to the one wearing the fine clothes, and say to him: You sit here in the best place, while you say to the poor man: You stand here, or sit at my feet-- Have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?" .... and of course it could apply to so many things, people physical beauty, people social status, etc... But it also brings the thought to mind, if the "NT" writers are just repeating and explaing, of course better than I or most could, but if they are explaing "OT" principles, how am I in the Spirit if I read James, but in the flesh if I read Moses??? For they are saying the same things....

"You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people."

Pretty clear, but I think the Spirit of Yah made me think about my personal likes dislikes in this matter, for just because one is different or even if there is something that bothers me about them, I should not make up any falsehoods about them, even if they have wronged me, only what is true should be spoken, even when tempers flare...

"Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh."

Now there is the obvious here, but what about driving wreck-less with another in the car or possibly hurt a pedrestrinan? No should not do, howver, I would have never deeply thought otherwise. Also I think I should never promote anything that could lead to ones death be it physical of spiritual, say I have a vice, I am not married I do at times lust, I would never want to invite a woman to partake in that with me unless she was my wife, for I would be leading her to sin also.... and one last thing, I would never want to in any way cause another dath, so even little things that I may not think of right now, anything of this nature is a no no. and if I never read, of course I would know not to put people in danger, but this way Yah has a base to bring to my remembrance in the time of need.


"You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. "

Pretty straight forward, but when I read this I thought, I should pray for Him to remove anything deep rooted, so I may not hate.

"Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."

This of course, why would I want another to go astray, and same for me, if I am in error I want someone to tell me, so I think this is very well. I think this is best looked at from an outside perspective, because a lot of people don;t like to be corrected... If one had a child that was doing something that was going to hurt them would not their parent speak up clearly so the child does not get hurt? But now days it seems like correction is hated and called judgmental...

"Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now the carnal mind look at this and starts making excuses about who is his neighbor or not, but the Spiritual mind know every human is his neighbor.... think about it, even people who are vile and have been misled by the adversary, im not saying give them a free pass, but know, the adversary has tricked and trapped them, the word can be a unforgiving place and some people have gone through terrible things, so I should hold no grudge and not have any hate toward any human, sometimes this is hard when looking at especially evil people but again, the adversary has blinded many...

"I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness."

Obvious, but I go farther, I do not have a daughter, but if I did not only would I teach her correctly, but I would not let her wear revealing clothes, there days, it is the norm, hence "the land will fall into harlotry".. this also made me think I should never give a woman attention/reward for being "provocative" now the same would go for if I had a son, and ,my own actions, do not promote this kind of thing.... so many angles... now I know, Im probably being called of so "in the fleah" but think abou it, id it ok to let a daughter listen to the music these days and dance the way they do, I can hear it noe "there just kids, let em have fun" .... "or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness" and you know why "become full of wickedness" because men "follow" women and it creates a snowball if sin...

"Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh."

I have seen may on here tell me magic is ok, it is not. there are Christians who read their horoscope or talk to their dead uncle... He says clearly "do not" I need no more reason, I will not.

"You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh."

This one I like a true elder or true teacher, I knew one about four years ago, I only got to study with him a handful of times, but I cherished it, I stayed quiet during study and would even ask him If I could add something when I thought a had some thing beneficial. I will say this, it may e a reason for one to talk down on me, but I remember when I showed him something in Scripture he did not know, I took great joy because he had showed me a number of things, and it felt well to return the favor.

"If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

No racism, no prejudice, no treat one different because they look or at different, no excuse.

"Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure."

truth and honesty in every, that is every situation... no way should I ever deal dishonestly, not even "cutting corners: example: "well you know hes rich so he wont miss that money" no that's his money, there is no excuse to work dishonestly, ever, period.

"I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."

For He is my Father that has brought me out of sin, I love Him and want to obey Him!

If one thinks there is something wrong with that then I think the problem is with them. and of course the Sprit softens our heart, how do you think I started to love His instructions and realize if everyone read and sought to follow them trough His guidance HOW MUCH BETTER WOULD THE WORLD BE?

Romans 2:, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

but I know not all love His instructions.. but would rather justify what ever they fell is right, now im not putting that on everyone or anyone, but that is a teaching that has crept in, "its only a sin if your heart condemns you" that is disgusting "doctrine" for there are sociopaths.... "conscience seared with a hot iron"

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.