homosexuality

[KCKID]

Kid,
i'm not pointing out anyone's sin personally here.
merely remaining true for everyone's sake to what God has SAID is sin.
sorry if that doesn't sit well with you.

No, it doesn't sit well with me at all. According to God, I'm a 'sinner' by virtue of being human. Moreover, I never asked to be born as an imperfect human being. How about you, zone?

As for what God (or the Bible anyway) refers to as 'sin' ...as said a number of times, EVERYTHING we do, say, or think is a sin! On reflection, that might not be entirely true. When we demonstrate love, caring and empathy toward those that are sick, those that are imprisoned, those that are hated, those that are unloved we have then entered the world of Jesus and are then, at least, temporary saints. Why, oh why, can we not use the same zeal we use for condemning others and instead channel our efforts toward something positive, something 'Jesus-like'? Why is this so difficult . . .?

this is a thread called:

Re: homosexuality

Homosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual activity between members of the same sex or gender.
wikipedia

i've noticed you have a preference for posting your view on such threads.

I note the subtle accusation in your remark but I respond with head held high and say, "You bet!" I've for too long seen the results of people that are marginalized by too many 'Christians', condemned to eternal torment just because 'they are gay'. I'm well aware of the number of suicides that have occurred among young gay men, confused people whose only escape seems to be in death, largely because Christians have thrown slurs at them for much of their lives, slurs such as 'sodomite', 'fag', 'pervert', etc. etc. I'm sure I'm going to get admonished here but (sigh) ...I see little difference between your average Christian and the Westboro Baptist Church. That most Christians would want to distance themselves from the Fred Phelps Clan does not mean that, deep down, they don't agree with them.

That said, there are a number of mainstream Christian tenets that I disagree with that I would gladly debate with someone. In fact, I really do believe that, if Jesus came back today, He would not recognize most of the denominations who claim to operate under His name.

if there's a thread on divorce/remarriage, i might post on it.
okay?

Well, that could be tricky. If you were to finish up condemning divorce/remarriage (as you MUST) you would be at odds with thousands of Christian Church-goers throughout the world. Better to keep 'mum' on that topic and stick to homosexuality just to be safe.

 

[KCKID]

Really Zone and the rest,

look at the intent and stop throwing those pearls. You have been around to long to fall for the sort.

Shame on you! My intent is to curb, if not stop, the hate message. There is nothing 'swine-like' about that. Again, shame on you!

 

[cdc1973]

No one should have to beg someone to follow God and His law. Jesus came and did his job for his Father. If someone wants to justify or call names, all you can do is say you tried. Pray for them. If they won't listen, you can pray. We are supposed to pray for our enemies. Sort of like trying to teach someone about Christianity and they do not want to hear it. You cannot shove it down their throat. They will either open their heart or they will choose their eternity God bless you

 

[KCKID]

No one should have to beg someone to follow God and His law. Jesus came and did his job for his Father. If someone wants to justify or call names, all you can do is say you tried. Pray for them. If they won't listen, you can pray. We are supposed to pray for our enemies. Sort of like trying to teach someone about Christianity and they do not want to hear it. You cannot shove it down their throat. They will either open their heart or they will choose their eternity God bless you

But ...what IS your Christian message? Convert to heterosexuality or be damned? Why is being homosexual any more sinful than being heterosexual? Don't be so vague. What IS your Christian message?

 

[jimmydiggs]

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

Again, still no good answer to post #76. The only option is that some people are just prejudiced against homosexuality and use the bible to affirm their position. However, clearly there are other things mentioned
in the OT that no one adheres to anymore - see post #76.

The bible is either all God's word or none of it is. You can't just cherry pick the good things and ignore the bad.

Anything else?

If you repeatedly demonstrate that you refuse the knowledge of God, why should I put lipstick and pearls on a pig?


Romans 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.


Jeremiah 9:6
You live in the midst of deception; in their deceit they refuse to acknowledge me," declares the LORD.

 

[zone]

No, it doesn't sit well with me at all. According to God, I'm a 'sinner' by virtue of being human. Moreover, I never asked to be born as an imperfect human being. How about you, zone?

As for what God (or the Bible anyway) refers to as 'sin' ...as said a number of times, EVERYTHING we do, say, or think is a sin! On reflection, that might not be entirely true. When we demonstrate love, caring and empathy toward those that are sick, those that are imprisoned, those that are hated, those that are unloved we have then entered the world of Jesus and are then, at least, temporary saints. Why, oh why, can we not use the same zeal we use for condemning others and instead channel our efforts toward something positive, something 'Jesus-like'? Why is this so difficult . . .?





I note the subtle accusation in your remark but I respond with head held high and say, "You bet!" I've for too long seen the results of people that are marginalized by too many 'Christians', condemned to eternal torment just because 'they are gay'. I'm well aware of the number of suicides that have occurred among young gay men, confused people whose only escape seems to be in death, largely because Christians have thrown slurs at them for much of their lives, slurs such as 'sodomite', 'fag', 'pervert', etc. etc. I'm sure I'm going to get admonished here but (sigh) ...I see little difference between your average Christian and the Westboro Baptist Church. That most Christians would want to distance themselves from the Fred Phelps Clan does not mean that, deep down, they don't agree with them.

That said, there are a number of mainstream Christian tenets that I disagree with that I would gladly debate with someone. In fact, I really do believe that, if Jesus came back today, He would not recognize most of the denominations who claim to operate under His name.



Well, that could be tricky. If you were to finish up condemning divorce/remarriage (as you MUST) you would be at odds with thousands of Christian Church-goers throughout the world. Better to keep 'mum' on that topic and stick to homosexuality just to be safe.

THIS THREAD IS CALLED:

Re: homosexuality

 

[jimmydiggs]

This is most annoying since Christians use this exaggeration (lie?) constantly. Reference to homosexuality, a word not actually used in the original texts anyway, is NOT 'there in black and white all over the Bible!'

Be careful about anachronism. Of course the word "homosexual" isn't in the original languages.

1) That's an English word. English would evolve into a language much later in history.
2) The word wasn't even in English vocabulary until the 1800s or so. Before then, they were called SODOMITES.

At MOST ...ambiguous references to homosexuality are found in roughly SIX places in the ENTIRE Bible!

Only ambiguous when that's what you look for.

 

[KCKID]

It's funny when you point out how the Bible clearly contradicts morality, logical/rational thinking
and everyone ignores it. (See post #76 and #98)

You will generally find that when posts presenting Bible texts to be discussed are ignored it's because they are too difficult to answer for most. They prefer them 'as is' ...the way that they've been taught them by others. You will also notice that people are rather 'tribal' and tend to bond together on forums such as this as though having taken residence in a safe-house. Most of the anti-gay posts here have very little substance in them and contain little more than sanctimonious, sarcastic or demeaning jibes. Don't rock the status quo boat by bringing up ACTUAL Bible texts for discussion. I found on the other thread (Obama/Gay Marriage) that the mere mention of a scriptural debate has people heading for the hills. Why? Because most people merely present texts without knowing what these texts are really referencing. They don't want another - and a possibly more accurate - interpretation of texts that they would rather continue to use as a weapon to condemn others. The majority of Christians would not have a clue that - in reality - NONE of the scriptures that are used constantly to condemn homosexuality are actually doing so ...certainly not in regard to how we of today refer to homosexuality. But, one must not cloud the issues with facts. THAT is viewed as 'twisting scripture'.

Better, perhaps, to pack up and move on.

 

[cfultz3]

Shame on you! My intent is to curb, if not stop, the hate message. There is nothing 'swine-like' about that. Again, shame on you!

It is not hate to preach the Gospel. It would be hateful to not point them to the Life.

Ex-homosexual

 

[jimmydiggs]

It is not hate to preach the Gospel. It would be hateful to not point them to the Life.

Ex-homosexual

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

 

[cfultz3]

But ...what IS your Christian message? Convert to heterosexuality or be damned? Why is being homosexual any more sinful than being heterosexual? Don't be so vague. What IS your Christian message?

Because homosexuality brings forth death, there is no Life to be found there. And the very reason Adam and Eve hid their gentitals (the very things God gave them to bring forth life). And we, as we have been given Life, wish to offer this Life to others so that they do not have to experience death. Indeed, an eternal separation from the Giver of Life.

This is the notes which I have on Romans 1:26-28. Please ponder upon it. Won't allow me to post color-coded, sorry.

Rom 1:26-28 Because of (channel of an act) this, God gave them over (surrendered) unto affections of dishonor (indignity, reproach, shame), as (explanation) even their females did exchange the natural (instinctive) usage (sexual intercourse (as an occupation of the body)) of their body into that which is contrary to nature (natural production, native disposition). And likewise, the males also, having left the natural usage of the female, became deeply inflamed (burned) in their lust for (intent) one another, males with males working out (accomplishing, performing) that shame (indecency, nakedness, pudenda) and receiving in themselves the recompense which was necessary (as binding) for their error (deceit, delusion). And, even as they did not allow (approve, deem worthy) God to have a place in recognition, God gave them over (surrendered) into an unapproved (rejected, reprobate) mind to do those things which ought not to be done (becoming).

1) that shame = it was when Adam and Even realized that they were no longer "standing" in the image of God, who is the Author of life, that they hid their genitals, the means by which God gave them to bring forth life. It is the act of same-sexuality which fully expresses this realization, as such acts cannot bring forth life. If not life, then death. And if by their deceit of it being natural, death comes, then there must be a binding sentencing passed upon them, as this deceit declares it is not in the image o f God. Pudenda = is the Latin word meaning, "that of which one ought to be ashamed". Anatomically, it means, "the external organs of generation".

 

[cfultz3]

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Thank you, Jimmy.

 

[RickShafer]

Don't excuse your willful self pride by exclaiming "all are sinners" to hide your own stiff necked philosophy.
The Bible is clear.
Sin is sin.
Don't excuse your own by comparing it with others.

 

[GodBible]

If you repeatedly demonstrate that you refuse the knowledge of God, why should I put lipstick and pearls on a pig?


Romans 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.


Jeremiah 9:6
You live in the midst of deception; in their deceit they refuse to acknowledge me," declares the LORD.

I quoted more Bible verses so therefore I win.

 

[cfultz3]

I quoted more Bible verses so therefore I win.

you will have us to exclude Scripture all together?

 

[KCKID]

THIS THREAD IS CALLED:

Re: homosexuality

It sure is! If we were to start a thread on divorce and remarriage and as to how Christians have blatantly ignored this scriptural sin of adultery - no different to the Catholic Church having covered up ITS much publicized 'sins' - then the wheels would pretty well fall off 'Christianity'.

So, shhhh . . .let's just stick with homosexuality.

 

[tribesman]

Troll infested thread.

 

[RickShafer]

It sure is! If we were to start a thread on divorce and remarriage and as to how Christians have blatantly ignored this scriptural sin of adultery - no different to the Catholic Church having covered up ITS much publicized 'sins' - then the wheels would pretty well fall off 'Christianity'.

So, shhhh . . .let's just stick with homosexuality.

Stop comparing sins please.
The difference that I see between pro-homosexual philosophy and the other sins you name is that
those guilty of those sins by and large KNOW they are wrong. - (And this is not ALL Christianity)
Whereas the practicing homosexual trumpets his right to sin.

 

[KCKID]

Don't excuse your willful self pride by exclaiming "all are sinners" to hide your own stiff necked philosophy.
The Bible is clear.
Sin is sin.
Don't excuse your own by comparing it with others.

One more time. Human behavior is considered 'sin' by God because humans are imperfect. I - if "I" am the one you're referring to - am not excusing the 'sins' of anyone. I personally don't care because we are all human and in the same boat. I am simply saying (and, once again I say) that EVERYONE is a biblical 'sinner'. AND, since everyone IS a biblical sinner NO ONE can single out anyone else for being 'a sinner'. Understand?

 

[RickShafer]

Who's singling out a single soul?
Why would you consider the assigning of homosexuality as sin as a personal affront?