How can we uphold the law through faith? Romans 3:31

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justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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#61
you saying we learn to obey Moses law for sinners more And more ?

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-

we arent part of the old broken covenant made with Israel by Moses and angels

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

probably why the apostles all
Agreed early on that it’s not part of Christian doctrine

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

….For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24, 28-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just not Christian doctrine but is great for study and learning about Christ and the New Testament but we aren’t meant to go back to that law it’s not for born again folks

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can’t be those kind of people anymore so we don’t need a law made for those folks no value for these folks

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one testament is about new life having our sins remitted through repentance and belief of the gospel. The other is made for the old sinful person if we’re still that type of person inside we need the law I suppose but we have to change and come into the gospel

“If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;( this guy needs the law )

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭

but that’s what believing the gospel does new life new mind and heart because we started hearing and believing the right doctrine . It changes how we think and how we act and live is able to change
So, based on this thinking (from Galatians 3:10), we ought to forsake the law?

Ought we to commit adultery with our neighbor's wife, kill our neighbor, steal from our neighbor, bear false witness against our neighbor, covet our neighbor's belongings, and break every other law that applies to our neighbor?

Isa 8:20, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The reality is that Galatians 3:10 is speaking of those who are seeking to be justified by the law (see Galatians 5:1-4).

For those who know that they are justified by and through faith in the blood of Jesus, they will soon be able to graduate from milk and begin to see that if they look into the perfect law of liberty (found in Galatians 5:16-24) and continue in it, they will be blessed in what they do (James 1:25).

It seems to me that there is no law that will condemn you if you walk according to, and bear the fruit of, the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

And, therefore, if you bear the fruit of the Spirit, you will become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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#63
Jesus is eternal he is the creator by whom and for whom all things exist. He was not born in the flesh as a man until the appointed time of the “Christ “ and his gospel .

God is eternal his plan was from the beginning to restore us to our God given place at his side ruling over the earth in his Will and guidance. The first Thing you have to do to show someone salvstion is to show them what it is they need saving from .

the law given to Moses was of God no question but it’s intent is not the same as The gospel the law does this for all mankind

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:

for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

think of the law of Moses and it’s 10 part covenant command spoken by God from Sinai.

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now Moses law later under the angel after they transgressed with the calf says

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

you have Moses law that repetitively says “ adulterers must surely be witnessed against by at least two to have committed the sin and then the whole group was to gather and stone the adulterers to death. It’s because of this often overlooked truth about the law

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


this leaves any and all repentant sinners being put to death for every sin they commit from adultery to sabbath breaking like this poor man based upon the hands of the others

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we understand this is not Jesus Christ’s judgement that was before the law and after the law in the gospel of Gods word and promises Jesus judgement is more like this

“And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:3-12‬ ‭

That’s a different law from Moses , Moses was to show no pity for sinners “you must witness against , judge and execute them by this law to keep everyone holy “

Jesus turned the judgemental part of them to their own selves looking for sin and they realized they had sinned also at some point and weren’t worthy to judge and condemn other sinners and left himself alone with the sinner and he dealt with her his way that leads to salvation rather than a brutal death and curse in the grave
Actually, Jesus was being tempted by the scribes and Pharisees, and if His action had in any way violated the law of Moses, they would have had occasion to condemn Him.

In all reality, Jesus required of the scribes and Pharisees that they have two or three witnesses as the law commanded, to be able to put the adulteress to death.

But, because it was a set-up and that was how they caught her in the act, none of the witnesses present were innocent of being involved in a little thing called entrapment.

So, Jesus was within His rights according to the law to acquit the woman, since there were not two or three witnesses to condemn her.

Therefore, He did not violate the law in the slightest when He acquitted the woman caught in adultery.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#66
Please elaborate on what you mean by this.

BOTH are TRUE

“I do not receive honor from men. 42But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The Law is present and upon those who reject Christ

The Law is void and done away with for those in Christ
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#67
BOTH are TRUE

“I do not receive honor from men. 42But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The Law is present and upon those who reject Christ

The Law is void and done away with for those in Christ
Those who are under the New Covenant have the law written on their hearts and minds.

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


See also Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
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#68
Those who are under the New Covenant have the law written on their hearts and minds.

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


See also Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6.
It is not the law under Moses - it is the Law of Christ that is written on our hearts.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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#69
It is not the law under Moses - it is the Law of Christ that is written on our hearts.
And what is the law of Christ? is it not this?

Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24, And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


And does it not include this?

Mat 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


If there is no law that will condemn my behaviour as I walk according to the fruit of the Spirit, does that not make me a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
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#70
And what is the law of Christ? is it not this?

Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24, And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


And does it not include this?

Mat 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


If there is no law that will condemn my behaviour as I walk according to the fruit of the Spirit, does that not make me a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven?
i have to go now as my time is up and i would encourage you to continue to absorb all Scripture and read the Gospel of John and Acts.

They say the Gospel of John is the Love Gospel - i believe that saying
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#71
BOTH are TRUE

“I do not receive honor from men. 42But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The Law is present and upon those who reject Christ

The Law is void and done away with for those in Christ
Jesus is not the lawless one.

Your last statement is true of the believer, only as concerning condemnation; not as concerning obedience.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#72
i have to go now as my time is up and i would encourage you to continue to absorb all Scripture and read the Gospel of John and Acts.

They say the Gospel of John is the Love Gospel - i believe that saying
I read through both John and Acts, along with the other gospels and Revelation, in the course of about a month, and have been doing so for quite some time.

So, I don't think that further reading is going to convince me of your point of view.

Maybe if you will spell out your point of view and explain it from the scriptures, I will see it better.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#73
Hi!


Civil laws are to be followed, but are not a major concern for Christian thought.
Always be clear to separate Yahweh’s moral law from the religious/ceremonial culture of your day.
Whenever you read an Old Testament command, and you wonder if it applies today,
simply read the context and ask yourself what the Law is there for.
Yahweh has a general Moral Law to which we are all beholden, and a specific Ceremonial Law that the Jews were chosen to uphold.

God Bless!
Christ was clear when Christ explained the "law" that was changed when Christ said "you have been told" and "but I tells you". Christ explained that true law was the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. If we control the food we eat in order to obey the law, we are not obeying the spirit of the law. The spirit of that law is to be careful what we feed our minds and souls.

All scripture is breathed by God, and those commands were breathed by God. Christ did not take away anything the OT said, Christ did nothing that opposed His Father, but Christ explained the true meaning of the commands of His Father. God the Father is spirit, not flesh, and the reality of those commands were of the spirit not the flesh. They are fleshly commands to lead to the spirit, as a schoolmaster leads children to school. Now the holy spirit leads us.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#74
Christ was clear when Christ explained the "law" that was changed when Christ said "you have been told" and "but I tells you". Christ explained that true law was the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. If we control the food we eat in order to obey the law, we are not obeying the spirit of the law. The spirit of that law is to be careful what we feed our minds and souls.

All scripture is breathed by God, and those commands were breathed by God. Christ did not take away anything the OT said, Christ did nothing that opposed His Father, but Christ explained the true meaning of the commands of His Father. God the Father is spirit, not flesh, and the reality of those commands were of the spirit not the flesh. They are fleshly commands to lead to the spirit, as a schoolmaster leads children to school. Now the holy spirit leads us.
I actually made a commitment to the Lord that I would give up shellfish and anything that comes from the pig as a testimony to the Lord that I love Him more than those savoury meats. And, I believe that this is according to the spirit of the law, because its motivation is love.

Because if I were to eat those savoury meats, it would have no bearing whatsoever on my salvation.

If I eat them, I am not the better; and if I don't eat them, I am not the worse (1 Corinthians 8:8).

For the sake of my Jewish brother, therefore, I abstain from what might be a stumbling block to him if he were aware of my eating what is not kosher.

As a Gentile who was circumcised on the eighth day, I know that I am not justified by the law.

However, Jesus said, If you love me, obey my commandments;

And I believe that Jesus is also the God of the Old Testament.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
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#75
Romans 3:31 ‘Do we then cancel the law through faith? Absolutely not! On the contrary we uphold the law”

How can faith uphold the law?

What did Jesus say in John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#76
I actually made a commitment to the Lord that I would give up shellfish and anything that comes from the pig as a testimony to the Lord that I love Him more than those savoury meats. And, I believe that this is according to the spirit of the law, because its motivation is love.

Because if I were to eat those savoury meats, it would have no bearing whatsoever on my salvation.

If I eat them, I am not the better; and if I don't eat them, I am not the worse (1 Corinthians 8:8).

For the sake of my Jewish brother, therefore, I abstain from what might be a stumbling block to him if he were aware of my eating what is not kosher.

As a Gentile who was circumcised on the eighth day, I know that I am not justified by the law.

However, Jesus said, If you love me, obey my commandments;

And I believe that Jesus is also the God of the Old Testament.
I don't know what this has to do with the OP, but what an interesting post. I also made the same vow to the Lord, but it was because I learned English as a baby in a home that used language that would make a sailor blush. Those words seemed to pop out of nowhere is I ever felt anger. I promised to keep to only food from animals who ate no garbage is God would please help me. We are told not to make vows, I am so sorry I did this, but scripture says a vow is a vow and once made, don't break it.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#77
So, based on this thinking (from Galatians 3:10), we ought to forsake the law?

Ought we to commit adultery with our neighbor's wife, kill our neighbor, steal from our neighbor, bear false witness against our neighbor, covet our neighbor's belongings, and break every other law that applies to our neighbor?

Isa 8:20, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The reality is that Galatians 3:10 is speaking of those who are seeking to be justified by the law (see Galatians 5:1-4).

For those who know that they are justified by and through faith in the blood of Jesus, they will soon be able to graduate from milk and begin to see that if they look into the perfect law of liberty (found in Galatians 5:16-24) and continue in it, they will be blessed in what they do (James 1:25).

It seems to me that there is no law that will condemn you if you walk according to, and bear the fruit of, the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

And, therefore, if you bear the fruit of the Spirit, you will become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven.
The law of Moses doesn’t bear any fruit of the spirit it bears a different fruit

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-

it’s almost like you can’t see that Moses taught different things from Jesus here’s another example of why one can’t follow Moses word and also Christs word because they are different

“And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses law of marriage was of you get married and the. Decide you don’t want the person get a divorce and remarry freely.


Jesus was teaching marriage from before the law was added because of transgression before thier hearts were hardened by sin

“But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


how can we follow Moses commandment and Jesus commandment ? One says divorce and remarriage is perfectly fine for any reason . The other says divorce for my reason other than fornication and then Re marrying is adultery which is a sin of death ?

I don’t think your hearing me Moses law is not the new testament it’s not for born again people it’s for unrepentant sinners . The gospel is for repentant sinners to be made new and free

Christians will Be those who accept Christs word and Moses word will have zero to do with it. For you to insist Christ promotes adultery is ridiculous

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you follow what Christ said that’s meant to be written on the heart the old commandment becomes irrelevant. If you don’t allow adultery in to the heart your not going to spend your life fighting against that temptation.

In Christ it’s not about seeing ten rules and fighting against your flesh to. Ot commit sin . That’s the law of Moses for sinners who are doomed.

Christ is about repenting and believing the gospel and being made new so you don’t have the fight going on between the old sinful man and the new born again man we have to let go of Moses teaching sinful people to not sin and start learning the gospel Jesus teaching sinners to repent and be made new by his word of faith
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
5,630
113
#78
[

And, therefore, if you bear the fruit of the Spirit, you will become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven.[/QUOTE]

that’s the thing the law of Moses is what’s written in his book it can’t be changed it will forever condemn sinners to death and is a law for an ancient unspiritual people who lived on constant rebellion against God. Moses law can’t be picked through it’s everything he wrote down for the children of Israel who he interceded for.

“Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:15-17, 22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; ……..Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:16, 19-21‬ ‭

If anyone can’t understand the difference in that and The gospel they have t heard the gospel yet. It’s as contrary as this

“Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this

“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other;

and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:27-31, 35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole covenants are like that one offers mercy and forgiveness through repentance the other requires death for sin.

Like this fellow do you think this is Jesus judgement ?

This is if a woman marries and is found to not be a virgin

“But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭22:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That is man having the judgement over man requiring man to witness against one another , accuse and condemn as a group ( like they did to Jesus ) then apppinted men judge and all the congregation puts men To death for their transgressions who can they witness against and accuse one another by the law. Because that’s what it’s meant for

Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And it requires complete perfect observance every transgression is punished by the group of other less than perfect people. And they are commanded to kill One another in other places severe punishments for detailed situations

“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭25:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one can really study the law and immediately tell it is not the gospel and not the judgement of Christ

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10

This is Jesus and the gospel not obeying Moses at all but giving something new and better deliverance by repentance and remission of sins being condemned to death by the law of Moses but saved by the gospel

“And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, ( Deuteronomy 9:10) as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:2-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law is why Israel’s “wise “ couldn’t accept the messiah they couldn’t see it was meant to be fulfilled by the messiah and taken away with a better word given for a better kingdom of eternal Life beyond death .

They were too learned by the law that’s meant to be a witness against the people at the side of the ark , too hear the witness of the one who would replace the accusation at the side of God with an intercessor

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Rather than a constant written down constant witness against man , we have a risen and living advocate for the times we come up short

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s not referring to Moses law but to Christs word John 14-15
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#79
The law of Moses doesn’t bear any fruit of the spirit it bears a different fruit

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.


“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you follow what Christ said that’s meant to be written on the heart the old commandment becomes irrelevant. If you don’t allow adultery in to the heart your not going to spend your life fighting against that temptation.

Christ is about repenting and believing the gospel and being made new so you don’t have the fight going on between the old sinful man and the new born again man we have to let go of Moses teaching sinful people to not sin and start learning the gospel Jesus teaching sinners to repent and be made new by his word of faith
If we follow Christ and if we did not know of what Paul wrote, we would simply read about the spirit of the law, we would know to follow the law as Christ gave it to us. Paul agrees with Christ, but so much of his teachings has to do with being careful of the law. We have to dig and search in Paul's letters to find that Paul believes we should follow Christ's law.

As we read Paul, we forget that the law of Moses was God breathed. It was man who changed it into a belief that cutting skin and regulating diet achieved righteousness. Those commands were given as a guide to the spirit of the law, never as an end in themselves.

It IS the new covenant, to see the spiritual in the earthly commands. We are under the new covenant, we have been given the holy spirit to help open our eyes. It is fine to see that the earthly commands were only schoolmasters to lead to the truth, but it is not good to refuse see that God gave those schoolmasters to the Hebrews for good.

God is good, God is Holy and all God has said and done in Holy.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#80
If we follow Christ and if we did not know of what Paul wrote, we would simply read about the spirit of the law, we would know to follow the law as Christ gave it to us. Paul agrees with Christ, but so much of his teachings has to do with being careful of the law. We have to dig and search in Paul's letters to find that Paul believes we should follow Christ's law.

As we read Paul, we forget that the law of Moses was God breathed. It was man who changed it into a belief that cutting skin and regulating diet achieved righteousness. Those commands were given as a guide to the spirit of the law, never as an end in themselves.

It IS the new covenant, to see the spiritual in the earthly commands. We are under the new covenant, we have been given the holy spirit to help open our eyes. It is fine to see that the earthly commands were only schoolmasters to lead to the truth, but it is not good to refuse see that God gave those schoolmasters to the Hebrews for good.

God is good, God is Holy and all God has said and done in Holy.
The law is knowing right & wrong how therefore is that not spiritual thing?