How do you explain the Trinity?

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V

VARob

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#21
Dec 21, 2020
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#21
CS1 said:
I can not fully understand that, Yet nobody can. And those who think they can are just being prideful.
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Thanks for acknowledging that... There seem to be a few people here who think they do understand and can explain the Trinity.

CS1 said:
Then we read in Matthew 3:16-17

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Three distinct actions of those who are God yet one.
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Where do you get that idea? That there are "Three distinct actions of those who are God yet one."

Jesus being Baptized
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Yes, Jesus Christ was baptized.

The Holy Spirit coming down from Heaven and remaining on Jesus.
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Yes. John saw it as a dove.

The Voice from Heaven said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.
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That was God.

This is MY" means: OF ME or OF my OWN
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There is no doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

= the same as.
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Methinks you're reading into it...
 
V

VARob

Banned
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Dec 21, 2020
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Mem said:
It seems to me that the verse you offered, "the one true God, and His Son..." can be view likewise.
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In John 17:3, Jesus was speaking to his Father, whom he called "the only true God." He was praying for people to know God and Jesus Christ, who God sent. Everlasting life comes from knowing them both.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#23
Jul 3, 2015
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#23

John 17:2-3~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent. .:)
 
Beckie

Beckie

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#24
Feb 15, 2022
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#24
How do you explain the Trinity?

Let me tell ya how smart i am.... smart enough to not even try to explain the trinity. Trusting enough to by faith believe.
 
CS1

CS1

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#25
May 23, 2012
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#25
VARob said:
Thanks for acknowledging that... There seem to be a few people here who think they do understand and can explain the Trinity.


Where do you get that idea? That there are "Three distinct actions of those who are God yet one."


Yes, Jesus Christ was baptized.


Yes. John saw it as a dove.

The text in Matthew John does say John bared record he saw a Dove . John said it was the Holy Spirit coming upon Jesus as a Dove.


That was God.


There is no doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

Yes and Jesus is also God :)


Methinks you're reading into it

you can think what you like.
...
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Good qestion


Three district actions 1. Jesus was baptized 2. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus and remained 3. a Voice Spoke from Heaven
 
V

VARob

Banned
#26
Dec 21, 2020
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#26
CS1 said:
Good qestion

Three district actions 1. Jesus was baptized 2. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus and remained 3. a Voice Spoke from Heaven
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Thanks, but I'm not sure that answers the question.

Where do you get the idea that there are "Three distinct actions of those who are God yet one."
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#27
Sep 23, 2014
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#27
VARob said:
In John 17:3, Jesus was speaking to his Father, whom he called "the only true God." He was praying for people to know God and Jesus Christ, who God sent. Everlasting life comes from knowing them both.
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Do you regard Jesus as the highest angel, the highest man?
I can certainly understand your reluctance to ascribe the position of God to any other than the One true god. However, John 3:13 states that no one has ascended to heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. He did not fall from heaven like Satan, which is the same action word used in verses speaking toward a "fall down and worship" or houses and rains falling. Jesus maintained his status as Son of God while descending as Son of Man.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#28
May 23, 2012
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#28
VARob said:
Thanks, but I'm not sure that answers the question.

Where do you get the idea that there are "Three distinct actions of those who are God yet one."
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As I said, Human reasoning can't comprehend the Eternal Godhead :) I have explained it. You don't see it or understand, that is perfectly ok :)
 
Mem

Mem

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#29
Sep 23, 2014
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#29
Saying you can't explain the Trinity is like saying you can't explain logic. I don't understand how is it that the truth is not logical?
 
V

VARob

Banned
#30
Dec 21, 2020
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#30
CS1 said:
As I said, Human reasoning can't comprehend the Eternal Godhead :) I have explained it. You don't see it or understand, that is perfectly ok :)
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Jesus Christ prayed to God that we know Him. How can you know someone that you can't comprehend?
 
V

VARob

Banned
#31
Dec 21, 2020
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#31
Mem said:
...I don't understand how is it that the truth is not logical?
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I think the truth is logical.

God wants people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#32
May 23, 2012
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#32
VARob said:
Jesus Christ prayed to God that we know Him. How can you know someone that you can't comprehend?
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that is a good qestion

And gave the answer some time ago in another post

1. we know God by the things He created, yet we are limited to knowing all of How God created as stated, man is limited

2. We know God by His word. Special Revelation

3. We Know God through salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ, yet we are limited to knowing Him fully because 1. no man can see God and Live 2. the flesh hinders us


You and I are limited no can we fully know him because God is Infinite and we are finite unless you think you can know all God knows.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#33
Aug 4, 2016
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#33
CS1 said:
The Eternal Godhead can't be fully comprehended. The human mind is incapable of understanding the Divine Nature of God fully.


We are limited; God is not.

We can only know through the means God ordained man to know Him.

1. General Revelation, which is by the things God created, Romans chapter tells us that.
2. Special Revelation The Word of God He has placed HIS word above HIS name.

3. Illumination by the Holy Spirit in the relationship one has with the Lord Jesus Christ



That is it. Science doesn't do that. The debate doesn't do it. Nothing.

Those who approach the Eternal Godhead should do so reverently and humbly. The Word Trinity is not found in the Bible Yet the Concept of the Trinity, I believe, is well seen in Scripture.

Just in the first few verses of Genesis and the first Chapter of the Gospel of John.

Many can't explain the following, yet many build Doctrines on these two chapters and a few verses as an example.

Genesis 1:1-1


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


Interestingly we see God who created, and YET the Spirit of God was Hovering over the face of the waters.

God= ĕlōhîm and (plural)

Spirit of God = rûaḥ or breath, which is a distinction and has a personality that is God.

Then we see in Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image,

after our likeness:

and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I have yet to see anyone explain this after reading John Chapter 1
which states: the Hebrew these are " images" more than one


In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made.


Then we read in Matthew 3:16-17

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Three distinct actions of those who are God yet one.

Jesus being Baptized
The Holy Spirit coming down from Heaven and remaining on Jesus.

The Voice from Heaven said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.



"This is MY" means: OF ME or OF my OWN= the same as.

I can not fully understand that, Yet nobody can. And those who think they can are just being prideful.
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I can explain the Trinity by simply using what the Bible explicitly states and it has NOTHING to do with being prideful. And I'm not talking about examples of let's say, water being liquid, sold or gas under the same conditions. Or using the Sun. Jesus is the light, the Holy Spirit is like the heat and the Father is like the Sun itself. I'm not talking about these examples that fall short and are useless in my opinion. I'm using "Bible" reasoning.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

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#34
Jun 11, 2018
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#34
Hello @Kind, here is a short, funny video (from our friends at Lutheran Satire) that takes a look at some of the analogies for the Trinity and shows why they always fail to "explain" it to us properly (though I admit that I still find them useful at times, Trinitarian analogies, that is .. my favorite being the one about the three lit candles sitting together, IOW, three candles, one light, but that ends up being slightly heretical in the end as well, as all analogies about the Trinity always seem to be).


The church formulated the doctrine of the Trinity to circumscribe and safeguard the Biblical mystery of the Godhead, not to explain it, because that is simply beyond any of us, at least on this side of the grave. So, we choose to accept the teaching of the Trinity as true because the Bible tells us that it is, that the Divine nature of the Godhead is trinitarian, one God existing as three Persons, both from and to everlasting.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - you may find it interesting to note that the word "name" Matthew 28:19 is singular. IOW, the singular "name" of God (in this case) is "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit".
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#35
May 23, 2012
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#35
bluto said:
I can explain the Trinity by simply using what the Bible explicitly states and it has NOTHING to do with being prideful. And I'm not talking about examples of let's say, water being liquid, sold or gas under the same conditions. Or using the Sun. Jesus is the light, the Holy Spirit is like the heat and the Father is like the Sun itself. I'm not talking about these examples that fall short and are useless in my opinion.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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FYI please read my words :)I did not say one could not explain the " Trinity". There are many of them out there. I said One can not fully comprehend the Eternal Godhead. I also said I believe the concept of the Trinity is well-seen in the Bible. Yet we are limited to knowing all of the Divine Nature of God. :) Those who think they can are being prideful.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#37
Sep 23, 2014
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#37
VARob said:
Jesus Christ prayed to God that we know Him. How can you know someone that you can't comprehend?
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The truth isn't illogical simply because you, in general, do not understand it. If the perfect truth isn't perfectly logical, then it isn't the, capital T, truth.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#38
Dec 21, 2020
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#38
Mem said:
The truth isn't illogical simply because you, in general, do not understand it.
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..sez you. :)

If the perfect truth isn't perfectly logical, then it isn't the, capital T, truth.
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Agreed. Many staunch Trinitarians believe the Trinity is not logical, at least according to what they call "human understanding."
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

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#39
Jun 11, 2018
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#39
VARob said:
Agreed. The question is what church, and why did they do it? The Reformation did not go far enough...
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Hello VARob, the doctrine of the Trinity hasn't continued to be accepted within the whole of the historic Christian church (IOW, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox) over millennia because it is some sort of "settled theology" that no one bothers to investigate anymore. Rather, it continues to be a hot topic that is thoroughly vetted by our seminarians and Bible college students, theologians, pastors, priests and the laity, etc., year after year after year (yet the same conclusion about the doctrine continues to be reached).

You know, we (meaning all of the churches that fall within the pale of Christian orthodoxy, that is) seem to fight and bicker endlessly over a number of different teachings/doctrines/etc., but when the entirety of the church continues to stand as one on a particular doctrine (as we do with the Trinity), and that w/o any variation in our teaching about it whatsoever, I would think it, at the very least, worthy of additional consideration by any who stand in opposition to it.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#40
Sep 23, 2014
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#40
VARob said:
..sez you. :)


Agreed. Many staunch Trinitarians believe the Trinity is not logical, at least according to what they call "human understanding."
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Yea, its the is but is not that gets confusing I'm sure. I can agree we might understand His ways, such as why is He mindful of the son of man that He cares for them since human 'understanding' in this case is a sympathy rather than a perception. That is we wouldn't give two thoughts to anyone that disregards us as God if we were god, so we don't understand why god would care so much as to the extent of saving us from death. And we might not be able to even imagine the extent of His power and what He would do with it but we can certainly get to know Who He is if He Himself expressed the desire that we would, and this is an identity conversation. And the definition of identity is, is = is so the is=is not would certainly complicate the discussion but that doesn't mean we should engage in it.
 
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