How does Faith ESTABLISH the law? Rom.3:31

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L

loveme1

Senior Member
#61
Oct 30, 2011
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#61
seed_time_harvest said:
Keeping the Ten Commandments causes some to stumble Instead of resting In the grace that was provided.

GOD said that If you love me keep my commandments.

Can any man other than GOD In CHRIST keep the Ten Commandments?answer=no

Can any man that Is GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST keep the two commandments?answer=yes

Somebody might say,the same GOD that spoke In the New Testament Is the same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament,and since the WORD of GOD doesn't change,we should try to keep the Ten Commandments.

Grace Is not work although those that are GOD's workmanship will work.

All glory be to GOD.
Click to expand...

The New Covenant is Keeping the Commandments of GOD and Having the Testimony of the Messiah.

Love fulfills the Royal Law.

And what Commandment is broken if we love GOD and one and other like the Messiah taught us.

Believe His Testimony, make it your foundation and be carried and stumble not my dear.

Obviously no man can force you to Keep the Commandments only Teach you.. all must be done in Faith.. hence the law of Faith.

We receive the Spirit by Faith and not works of the law.

Like Abraham we are to believe GOD and we do this through His Son's Testimony. The Just shall live by Faith.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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#62
Nov 22, 2015
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#62
Here are the commandments of God in the New Covenant.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

In these 2 commandments all the intent of the law is fulfilled by the life of Christ in us.

The law was fulfilled by Christ Himself and now He alone is our righteousness. Which is why the Christian has died to the law, been released from the law and is not under the law anymore - which includes all the commands of the law including the 10 commandments.

Christians do not live by keeping the 10 commandments - they live by the life of Christ now.

His life in us being manifested is how we live now but it is all based on Him alone.
 
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J

J7

Banned
#63
Apr 2, 2017
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#63
Christ was put to death by the Law. No Law no Christ. No Christ, no gospel
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#64
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
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#64
Grace777x70 said:
Here are the commandments of God in the New Covenant.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

In these 2 commandments all the intent of the law is fulfilled by the life of Christ in us.

The law was fulfilled by Christ Himself and now He alone is our righteousness. Which is why the Christian has died to the law, been released from the law and is not under the law anymore - which includes all the commands of the law including the 10 commandments.

Christians do not live by keeping the 10 commandments - they live by the life of Christ now.

His life in us being manifested is how we live now but it is all based on Him alone.
Click to expand...

We are to Believe the Messiah's Testimony yes, we are to love one and other, yes... but you are lacking something from this that the Spirit brings to mind.

We are at liberty under Grace to love as we are loved...

Now why are you missing out the Great Commandment? Do you not love the Truth? Knowing we are saved by God's Grace and love who gave His Son for remission of our sin and to reconcile us with Himself. why would you not believe the Great Commandment?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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#65
Nov 22, 2015
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#65
loveme1 said:
We are to Believe the Messiah's Testimony yes, we are to love one and other, yes... but you are lacking something from this that the Spirit brings to mind.

We are at liberty under Grace to love as we are loved...

Now why are you missing out the Great Commandment? Do you not love the Truth? Knowing we are saved by God's Grace and love who gave His Son for remission of our sin and to reconcile us with Himself. why would you not believe the Great Commandment?
Click to expand...
The great commandment in the New Covenant is to believe in Christ and then the love of God that is in us will manifest out to others.

There are 2 trees in the scriptures and how we read those scriptures shapes our minds.

1) the tree of the knowledge of good and evil = which the law of Moses is a manifestation of.

2) there is the tree of life = which is Christ Himself.

If we read the scriptures through the "wrong tree" - we will come up with a works-based religion that actually nullifies the very grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
 
J

J7

Banned
#66
Apr 2, 2017
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#66
Paul's real point is this.

Israel had been under the Law, and all had failed to attain the standard of the Law.

The penalty for breaking the Law was death.

Christ came for Israel, and Israel alone initially, to redeem them from the curse of the Law.

As an Israelite, if you had Faith in Jesus, you were saved from death. (Salvation)

So if you had Faith in Jesus, you did so because he was rescuing you from the Law.

Now if the Law had no force, then Faith would not be necessary.

But in choosing to have Faith in Jesus, an Israelite showed that he understood the force of the Law.

So this is how the Law was not empty of force, on the contrary, it had great force, hence the necessity of faith.

The Law demonstrated its force in AD 67-73 in the destruction of faithless Israel
 
J

J7

Banned
#67
Apr 2, 2017
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#67
That's probably the nub of what Paul is saying.

The Law showed all its force (katargeo) in AD 70, so writing in AD 60 he was explaining this very thing.

Those who rejected Faith were lining themselves up for the full force of the Law.

The force of the Law would be imposed on those who rejected Faith, hence Faith was a prerequisite for the Law to do this. Thus:

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#68
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#68
Grace777x70 said:
The great commandment in the New Covenant is to believe in Christ and then the love of God that is in us will manifest out to others.

There are 2 trees in the scriptures and how we read those scriptures shapes our minds.

1) the tree of the knowledge of good and evil = which the law of Moses is a manifestation of.

2) there is the tree of life = which is Christ Himself.

If we read the scriptures through the "wrong tree" - we will come up with a works-based religion that actually nullifies the very grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Click to expand...

The simplicity is to Believe the Testimony of the Messiah Son of GOD who gave New Testament.


By the Grace of GOD I'm gonna continue to believe and hope others will also.


Blessed are they that Keep His Commandments that they may have right to the Tree of life.


Eve was beguiled and gave to Adam.. if they had believed and Trusted what GOD told them the serpent would not of beguiled them.

If we have not the Holy Spirit we perceive not and go about trying to come to the knowledge of Truth not realising that the heart was not willing to believe the Truth.

Father and Son are One.. GOD's law is at enmity with the flesh and that is why we have to be born again of the Holy Spirit by Grace through Faith.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#69
Dec 9, 2011
14,111
1,798
113
#69
loveme1 said:
The New Covenant is Keeping the Commandments of GOD and Having the Testimony of the Messiah.

Love fulfills the Royal Law.

And what Commandment is broken if we love GOD and one and other like the Messiah taught us.

Believe His Testimony, make it your foundation and be carried and stumble not my dear.

Obviously no man can force you to Keep the Commandments only Teach you.. all must be done in Faith.. hence the law of Faith.

We receive the Spirit by Faith and not works of the law.

Like Abraham we are to believe GOD and we do this through His Son's Testimony. The Just shall live by Faith.
Click to expand...
Yes,all the law and the prophets Is summed up In one word,love but remember,If man tries to keep the Ten Commandments,he has fallen from grace and Is trying to receive grace by merit and no one Is able to merit grace of their own will-power.

We love because GOD first loved us and because of GOD's work In us we establish the law,JESUS,the vine and we are the branches receiving nourishment from the vine and displaying the spiritual fruit,establishing the law.
 
unobtrusive

unobtrusive

Senior Member
#70
Jul 23, 2017
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25
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#70
J7 said:
Paul's logic here is simple.

As Faith has superseded the Law, can we conclude that the Law was pointless?

No way! When we properly understand Faith, then we properly understand the Law
Click to expand...
Faith is present in both the "fruit of the Spirit" and the "gifts of the Spirit." There is the "Spirit of the law," and the "fruit of the Spirit" is not an adversary of the law. Neither is the law an adversary to the "fruit of the Spirit." Why? The law actually defines the "fruit of the Spirit" because Paul said that the law is "Spiritual." Paul was a student of the law, and as Jesus defined it correctly, so did Paul.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23)

This understanding and acceptance is the faith that establishes the law in our minds and hearts.

"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jeremiah 31:33)

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised") (Hebrews 10:16, 22-23)

Now, lo and behold, the very next chapter of Hebrews, chapter 11, is called the "faith chapter" by most evangelical Christians. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how faith establishes the law.




 
unobtrusive

unobtrusive

Senior Member
#71
Jul 23, 2017
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#71
All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me. (Psalms 119:86)

God's faithfulness is found in His commandments.
 
G

garee

Banned
#72
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#72
How does Faith ESTABLISH the law? Rom.3:31
Click to expand...
It establishes faith as a perfect law according to a finished work of God

I would offer it is actually two laws working together as one .One the law that comes by walking by sight as to the law written by the finger of God the letter it kills, showing we are sinners. And the law of faith in respect to Christ’s work of faith as a labor of His love, it heals. I believe it is why we compare the spiritual meaning not seen to the same spirit of faith according as it is written .In most cases the law of faith is hidden in parables from the lost.

The whole Bible is considered the book of the law, by its authority it works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) Therefore giving us simply ones His understanding making us perfect (complete in Christ)..

The law of faith (believing) It does not make the written law to no effect it perfects it again by the hearing of His faith.

To the law and the testimony...

The law of the LORD is perfect, “converting the soul”: the testimony of the LORD is sure, “making wise the simple”.The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, “enlightening the eyes”.The fear of the LORD is clean, “enduring for ever”: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb”.Moreover by them is thy servant “warned”: and in keeping of them “there is great reward”.Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Psa 19:7-14

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the “law of faith”. Rom 3:27
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#73
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#73
seed_time_harvest said:
Yes,all the law and the prophets Is summed up In one word,love but remember,If man tries to keep the Ten Commandments,he has fallen from grace and Is trying to receive grace by merit and no one Is able to merit grace of their own will-power.

We love because GOD first loved us and because of GOD's work In us we establish the law,JESUS,the vine and we are the branches receiving nourishment from the vine and displaying the spiritual fruit,establishing the law.
Click to expand...

A man under Grace using his liberty to love GOD is born of the Spirit and keeps GOD's Law.

If the Root nourishes the Branches then the fruit will be Good indeed.

The Branches must remain in belief unto the saving of their souls.

Your statement fits someone who begins to lose Faith in the New Testament and believes they must be circumcised outwardly to be saved.. and then yoke themselves under the law of works.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#74
Dec 9, 2011
14,111
1,798
113
#74
loveme1 said:
A man under Grace using his liberty to love GOD is born of the Spirit and keeps GOD's Law.

If the Root nourishes the Branches then the fruit will be Good indeed.

The Branches must remain in belief unto the saving of their souls.

Your statement fits someone who begins to lose Faith in the New Testament and believes they must be circumcised outwardly to be saved.. and then yoke themselves under the law of works.
Click to expand...
Only GOD In CHRIST kept the law.
Those who are In CHRIST don't keep the law,we establish the law.

Abide In JESUS for without HIM you can do nothing.

Give GOD ALL the credit,It's not thank you GOD for the grace and I helped you because I tried to keep the law.Remember GOD only accepts perfection.So then the person trying to keep the law Is probably thinking they are doing GOD a favor but they are In ERROR.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#75
Dec 9, 2011
14,111
1,798
113
#75
Yes,all the law and the prophets Is summed up In one word,love but remember,If man tries to keep the Ten Commandments,he has fallen from grace and Is trying to receive grace by merit and no one Is able to merit grace of their own will-power.

We love because GOD first loved us and because of GOD's work In us we establish the law,JESUS,the vine and we are the branches receiving nourishment from the vine and displaying the spiritual fruit,establishing the law.

loveme1 said:
Your statement fits someone who begins to lose Faith in the New Testament and believes they must be circumcised outwardly to be saved.. and then yoke themselves under the law of works.
Click to expand...
That's very amusing,did you read your post!:confused:
Are you saying that a person trying to keep the TEN commandments has not began to lose faith In the new testament.

Make up your mind.:D
 
J

J7

Banned
#76
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#76
Katargeo means to deprive of force, and histemi means to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything

So this

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

seems to mean

Do we deprive the Law of power through faith. God forbid, we uphold the power of the Law (through faith)

The power of the Law is to convict of sin, pure and simple.
 
unobtrusive

unobtrusive

Senior Member
#77
Jul 23, 2017
916
25
18
#77
garee said:
It establishes faith as a perfect law according to a finished work of God

I would offer it is actually two laws working together as one .One the law that comes by walking by sight as to the law written by the finger of God the letter it kills, showing we are sinners. And the law of faith in respect to Christ’s work of faith as a labor of His love, it heals. I believe it is why we compare the spiritual meaning not seen to the same spirit of faith according as it is written .In most cases the law of faith is hidden in parables from the lost.

The whole Bible is considered the book of the law, by its authority it works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) Therefore giving us simply ones His understanding making us perfect (complete in Christ)..

The law of faith (believing) It does not make the written law to no effect it perfects it again by the hearing of His faith.

To the law and the testimony...

The law of the LORD is perfect, “converting the soul”: the testimony of the LORD is sure, “making wise the simple”.The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, “enlightening the eyes”.The fear of the LORD is clean, “enduring for ever”: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb”.Moreover by them is thy servant “warned”: and in keeping of them “there is great reward”.Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Psa 19:7-14

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the “law of faith”. Rom 3:27
Click to expand...
Nailed it!! AMEN!!
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#78
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#78
seed_time_harvest said:
Keeping the Ten Commandments causes some to stumble Instead of resting In the grace that was provided.

GOD said that If you love me keep my commandments.

Can any man other than GOD In CHRIST keep the Ten Commandments?answer=no

Can any man that Is GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST keep the two commandments?answer=yes

Somebody might say,the same GOD that spoke In the New Testament Is the same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament,and since the WORD of GOD doesn't change,we should try to keep the Ten Commandments.

Grace Is not work although those that are GOD's workmanship will work.

All glory be to GOD.
Click to expand...

Yes., Amen! Grace is not something we can earn or merit by our behavior. We are graciously dealt with because of Jesus so it is a sure thing because it is a free gift from Him. It depends on the Giver not the receiver.
and we will end up doing the work but we don't do it out of fear or selfish motives. We end up behaving like Christ due to being exposed to Him through the Holy Spirit's leading and teaching us about Jesus. So all credit for what we do that has any merit or goodness goes to Him and His effect on us.
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#79
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#79
Grace777x70 said:
Here are the commandments of God in the New Covenant.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

In these 2 commandments all the intent of the law is fulfilled by the life of Christ in us.

The law was fulfilled by Christ Himself and now He alone is our righteousness. Which is why the Christian has died to the law, been released from the law and is not under the law anymore - which includes all the commands of the law including the 10 commandments.

Christians do not live by keeping the 10 commandments - they live by the life of Christ now.

His life in us being manifested is how we live now but it is all based on Him alone.
Click to expand...



AMEN!!! So glad for your post! Reading the other posts was a bit frustrating as they said (partly) the right things but missed the mark about real purpose of what the law means to the believer today. Jesus saves us out of the pigsty of humanity under Adam and makes us into new creations IN Him Jesus. We have been made into the sheep of His pasture and our desire is no longer to be in the mud rolling around because we have been changed in every way.

We have heard it before about sheep and pigs and mud... A sheep may fall in the mud for a while but they are never thriving or happy or content in it like before when they were piggies. A pig loves the mud and has no desire to get out because the mud answers their needs and wants. Not so for the sheep.





 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#80
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#80
Grace777x70 said:
The great commandment in the New Covenant is to believe in Christ and then the love of God that is in us will manifest out to others.

There are 2 trees in the scriptures and how we read those scriptures shapes our minds.

1) the tree of the knowledge of good and evil = which the law of Moses is a manifestation of.

2) there is the tree of life = which is Christ Himself.

If we read the scriptures through the "wrong tree" - we will come up with a works-based religion that actually nullifies the very grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
Click to expand...



EXACTLY!!!!!
 
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