How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

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Locoponydirtman

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When involved in contentious argument, participants often become confused if I interject with a concordant post. It made perfect sense to me. Temple builders' endeavor to resurrect their religion but have completely missed the temple that housed their god when He walked among them.
We have temple seeker here on this forum. They have me on ignor because i keep pointing to Jesus. They desire to see an earthly temple and animal sacrifices, just as pharasees by their false religion (talmud) sought a Messiah that would over throw Rome and set up an earthly kingdom. Its the same spirit, a materialist ideology.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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We have temple seeker here on this forum. They have me on ignor because i keep pointing to Jesus. They desire to see an earthly temple and animal sacrifices, just as pharasees by their false religion (talmud) sought a Messiah that would over throw Rome and set up an earthly kingdom. Its the same spirit, a materialist ideology.

There is NO temple seekers here, you have MISUNDERSTOOD OUR PURPOSE for wanting the JEWS to seek to built the Temple back.
He Planned it, and HE WILL FULFILL IT.

Everything done in a TEMPLE IS CONSIDERED A SACRIFICE. ONLY IN ENGLISH do they THINK, Wrongly, IT refers to Only a BLOOD Sacrifice.

Festival of Frist FRUITS is a Sacrifice, Prayer is a Sacrifice, Paying the Temple Tax is a Sacrifice, Singing Songs and Playing Music is a Sacrifice. The Two Witness of REVELATION convince most of the Jews in a single Day, convince the Jews JESUS IS THEIR MESSIAH, and that happens after we are Raptures to go the wedding of the LAMB. Your theology is embarrassing at best. You have never Studied Judaism, and I can TELL.

Rapture is Found in the Latin Bible, and we borrowed that term from there. It is Called Rapturo, which means CAUGHT UP. You Really NEED TO STUDY MORE, before you return and try to share what you have learned for REAL. Here is a Chapter in Zechariah YOU NEED TO STUDY THEROUGHLY, FIRST. It is a PROPHECY, WHERE JESUS CHRIST BECOMES KING OVER ALL THE EARTH, HIS NAME ALONE.

Zechariah 14:1-21 (HCSB)
1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence.
2 I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle. The city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him. {That is the Full Assembly of the SAINTS, READ Chapter 19 of Revelation. We ride horses from Heaven with HIM, after the Wedding.}
6 On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
7 It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.
11 People will live there, and never again will there be a curse of complete destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell in security.
12 This will be the plague the LORD strikes all the peoples with, who have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
13 On that day a great panic from the LORD will be among them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other.
14 Judah will also fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected: gold, silver, and clothing in great abundance.
15 The same plague as the previous one will strike the horses, mules, camels, donkeys, and all the animals that are in those camps.
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
17 Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.
18 And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
20 On that day, ⌊the words⌋ HOLY TO THE LORD will be on the bells of the horses. The pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling basins before the altar.
21 Every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts. Everyone who sacrifices will come and take some of the pots to cook in. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of Hosts.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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And by "the Jews" do you mean practitioners of modern antiChrist Talmudic Judaism?
Jocund......did you forget about Paul's preaching prerogative and order?
Please, buddy, your Jewish friends need to hear the gospel from YOU. A good ministry for you pal.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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I still find it amazing how people like him, can refuse the to see the TRUTH. Even when it is printed in plain English.
“In our last battle of wits he lost most of his, and now he’s only left with one, so I’m going to let him keep it so people can tell the difference between him and his horse.”

-Shakespeare
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Isaiah 46:10-12 (HCSB)
10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying: My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.
11 I call a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far country. Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about. I have planned it; I will also do it.
12 Listen to me, you hardhearted, far removed from justice:


HE PLANNED TO TRAP ANTICHRIST INTO SITTING IN THE TEMPLE AND SHOWING HE IS NOW GOD.
That will cost him dearly, he is the first to go into HELL.


Revelation 19:20 (HCSB)
20 But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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HELL is 100 percent REAL. I was about to jump in, the fist two Times I attempted SUICIDE before I surrendered to Christ. The Lava Lake, is the very similar to the VISION God Gave me, as I had the Pistol to my Temple, with the Trigger half Pulled. That VISION made me drop the Pistol, it TERRIFIED me more than anything in my life. NO ONE could every convince me that HELL IS NOT A REAL PLACE, I have been their on that CLIFF.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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We have temple seeker here on this forum. They have me on ignor because i keep pointing to Jesus. They desire to see an earthly temple and animal sacrifices, just as pharasees by their false religion (talmud) sought a Messiah that would over throw Rome and set up an earthly kingdom. Its the same spirit, a materialist ideology.
I've always tried to give every side of an argument consideration. And on one hand, the Jews do apparently seem to be a peculiar people. For example, how many other peoples were ever sought out for extermination solely for reason of crime being the makeup of their dna, with absolutely no option for conversion? So, it makes me wonder that since they were so passionately hated for such an obviously irrational reason (by earthly forces of evil even if there is good in them) then there might be something in that they may also be favored for no apparent reason other than their lineage (by heavenly forces of good even if there is evil in them).

Idk, I sort of leaped into the debate 15 pages in and far from caught up or even aware exactly what the Jews might be "wrong about," so there's probably a fair chance I might be speaking out of place in regard to the actual topic. However, if the topic is that Christians will be in heaven while Jews left on Earth come to Christ in the millennium, I don't see how that is any different from the amillennial view which says we are currently in the millennial reign where Christ reigns from heaven with the saints that have gone and are currently, reigning, with Him? Is the difference only that the Holy Spirit will be absent during the reign as per the pre-trib view? And I'm not asking here as much as asking a rhetorical question which I'm already aware of the components to the answer are. Jesus is returning, period. He hasn't booked any roundtrip tickets for this journey. His first advent was to lay the foundation with the placement of the cornerstone. This time it'll be to put on the capstone, and nothing, not even the gates of hell itself and all the powers thereof, can prevail to shake it.
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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Can you imagine Being thrown in to Lava Lake, and never being able to die again, feeling all the Burning and extreme Heat. God says the resurrected body will never die again. Whether your are a Born Again going to heaven, a place of Eternal Glory, OR whether you go to Hell a Place of Eternal Punishment.

Revelation 20:4-15 (HCSB)
4 Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. ⌊I⌋ also ⌊saw⌋ the people who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of God’s word, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with the Messiah for 1,000 years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of the Messiah, and they will reign with Him for 1,000 years.
7 When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea.
9 They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
10 The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.
12 I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books.
13 Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works.
14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:32-46 (HCSB)
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
{True Biblical Motives doing these things, is because you LOVE Jesus Christ, and NOT because you want to get something from HIM.}
35 For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
40 “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41 Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
44 “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
45 “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Matthew 13:40-43 (HCSB)
40 Therefore, just as the weeds are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather from His kingdom everything that causes sin and those guilty of lawlessness.
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
{Very bitter towards the Lord because they thought they diserved to go to Heaven.}
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s kingdom. Anyone who has ears should listen!


Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.







 

Jocund

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Jan 14, 2021
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many other peoples were ever sought out for extermination solely for reason of crime being the makeup of their dna, with absolutely no option for conversion? So, it makes me wonder that since they were so passionately hated for such an obviously irrational reason (by earthly forces of evil even if there is good in them) then there might be something in that they may also be favored for no apparent reason other than their lineage (by heavenly forces of good even if there is evil in them).
The Talmud encourages an ethnocentric racial supremacist attitude. It's easy to see that this has nothing to do with DNA and everything to do with culture and the lack of Christian sensibilities in Talmudic teachings. But even if Saul could be despised, it's not as though this carries over to his existence as Paul. Things like usury and other predatory business practices were often the cited reason for why these cultures were expelled from Christian countries historically. These expulsions weren't based on ethnicity (as Christians of Jewish heritage were allowed to stay), it was based solely on antiChristian cultural practices which can be found explicitly stated in the Talmud.

When Martin Luther lost his mind on "Jews" he wasn't talking about all people of Jewish heritage, he was talking about local Talmudic Jews and adherents of Talmudism generally. This happened because a Jewish apostate translated the Talmud for him. It's not hard to see that this may have happened many times in history in one form or another. If a scam artist was caught in the act of their scam, it's easy to see why a town might throw the scam artist out of town.

And even if these Talmudic Jewish supremacist attitudes were not adhered to as required by the Talmud, the perception still exists that any zealous adherent of the Talmud will commit the immoral acts condoned by the Talmud. If anyone is to have an honest conversation about how to smooth over this perception, the starting point is going to be about the Talmud. This is a topic that is often buried because talking about the Talmud reveals the fact that the religion is founded on bigoted, xenophobic, racial supremacism, that encourages predatory, unneighbourly practices against outsiders. The Talmud is absolutely worthy of rebuke.

All of that said about the teachings of the culture, it isn't necessarily the case that all people of a culture will adhere to evil teachings of that culture. A person with a good heart can hear an evil instruction and refuse to follow it. We see this kind of wisdom with the way that Jesus dealt with the adulteress. Had he wanted to show harsh judgement instead of mercy, he could have easily allowed the Pharisees to commit to their claim and see to it that the woman was executed. This isn't what happened, despite being a legally valid path under the ordinances of the law at the time.

If we apply this logic to adherents of the Talmud and other Rabbinic teachings, we see that despite the Talmud and many Rabbinic teachings being evil, the adherents of the Talmud themselves won't necessarily be evil if their heart does not resonate with the content. And thus even some Rabbis may not themselves be committed to spreading the vile teachings of the Talmud and instead focus on the neutral or positive messages instead.

That's the danger of stereotypes and putting people into categories. That's the danger of slogans like "all people of X ethnic/cultural group are bad" because it can cause a mental short-circuit to treat everyone within a group the same way when we should be considering the heart and mind of individuals individually. This can be said of Talmudic Jews, where some are evil while others may bear the fruits of kindness in their lives, and it can also be said about historical nations that expelled Talmudic Jews from their societies, where the attribute of them expelling a culture from their midst was not necessarily wrong of them to do (and may truly have been God's will to expel a specific collection of local people that were bad and unrighteous). We should never use blanket statements like "all Jews are bad" or "all those that expelled Jews are bad". We should judge each case mindfully with open consideration. (The same is true of the crusades where righteous Christian soldiers executed murderous Moslem raiders. The crusades often get cast in a bad light despite the fact that the Christians of that day did the right thing to ensure the protection and safe passage of pilgrims.)

If a Talmudic Jewish person murdered a person, and a judge sentenced them to the electric chair. Their execution is not evidence that the Judge hates Talmudic Jews, it is merely a judgement ruled on an individual in accordance with a due process. The acts of the individual do not reflect on the larger group. If you had a biker gang that was committed to organized crime, it is possible that the gang is ruled to be a collection of outlaws and becomes thrown out of a country. If the biker gang happens to be composed primarily of one type of ethnicity, that does not speak against the entire ethnicity, only that collection of individuals that have membership in that specific group. If a group of mischievous kids start wearing the biker gang's colour, symbols, and referencing their subculture and claim to be adherents (though do not adhere to the actual immoral acts), that doesn't necessarily mean that the kids are genuinely part of that biker gang nor that they would share the same justification for rebuke. Discerning these things and how to deal with people can be a difficult task.

Hatred can be addictive like a drug, and many groups like the trillionaire-owned media corporations become like drug dealers to the masses. The media constantly tells us to hate people, and if that is all we listen to, it can start to permeate into our lives and our way of thinking. It's better to abstain from hate altogether.

However, if the topic is that Christians will be in heaven while Jews left on Earth come to Christ in the millennium, I don't see how that is any different from the amillennial view which says we are currently in the millennial reign where Christ reigns from heaven with the saints that have gone and are currently, reigning, with Him?
While Talmudic Judaism have their own black and white definition for what counts as a Jew (and therefore Dispensationalism would also share that definition), Christianity defines Jews differently. Jews and Christians aren't mutually exclusive groups from a Christian perspective. So from a Christian perspective, the idea that "Christians go one way and Jews go another" makes no sense. This is the first thing we should be picking up on. In the end there are Christians and nonChristians, and that's it.

When we talk about "amill", if we mean what the RCC proposes, "amil" is a misnomer, it would be more to the understanding of a symbolic 1000 year kingdom ("sym-mil"?). Revelation is regarded as largely symbolic, having descriptions and imagery that applies to past events (such as the birth of Christ) as well as meanings and imagery that spread over the present and future. Despite accepting a symbolic meaning of things, there is nothing stopping that person from also accepting the concept that a double-entendre is present and that simultaneous literal meaning could exist in the text.

It's a complicated subject, but that is the nature of prophecy interpretation.
 
Oct 9, 2018
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The Talmud encourages an ethnocentric racial supremacist attitude. It's easy to see that this has nothing to do with DNA and everything to do with culture and the lack of Christian sensibilities in Talmudic teachings. But even if Saul could be despised, it's not as though this carries over to his existence as Paul. Things like usury and other predatory business practices were often the cited reason for why these cultures were expelled from Christian countries historically. These expulsions weren't based on ethnicity (as Christians of Jewish heritage were allowed to stay), it was based solely on antiChristian cultural practices which can be found explicitly stated in the Talmud.

When Martin Luther lost his mind on "Jews" he wasn't talking about all people of Jewish heritage, he was talking about local Talmudic Jews and adherents of Talmudism generally. This happened because a Jewish apostate translated the Talmud for him. It's not hard to see that this may have happened many times in history in one form or another. If a scam artist was caught in the act of their scam, it's easy to see why a town might throw the scam artist out of town.

And even if these Talmudic Jewish supremacist attitudes were not adhered to as required by the Talmud, the perception still exists that any zealous adherent of the Talmud will commit the immoral acts condoned by the Talmud. If anyone is to have an honest conversation about how to smooth over this perception, the starting point is going to be about the Talmud. This is a topic that is often buried because talking about the Talmud reveals the fact that the religion is founded on bigoted, xenophobic, racial supremacism, that encourages predatory, unneighbourly practices against outsiders. The Talmud is absolutely worthy of rebuke.

All of that said about the teachings of the culture, it isn't necessarily the case that all people of a culture will adhere to evil teachings of that culture. A person with a good heart can hear an evil instruction and refuse to follow it. We see this kind of wisdom with the way that Jesus dealt with the adulteress. Had he wanted to show harsh judgement instead of mercy, he could have easily allowed the Pharisees to commit to their claim and see to it that the woman was executed. This isn't what happened, despite being a legally valid path under the ordinances of the law at the time.

If we apply this logic to adherents of the Talmud and other Rabbinic teachings, we see that despite the Talmud and many Rabbinic teachings being evil, the adherents of the Talmud themselves won't necessarily be evil if their heart does not resonate with the content. And thus even some Rabbis may not themselves be committed to spreading the vile teachings of the Talmud and instead focus on the neutral or positive messages instead.

That's the danger of stereotypes and putting people into categories. That's the danger of slogans like "all people of X ethnic/cultural group are bad" because it can cause a mental short-circuit to treat everyone within a group the same way when we should be considering the heart and mind of individuals individually. This can be said of Talmudic Jews, where some are evil while others may bear the fruits of kindness in their lives, and it can also be said about historical nations that expelled Talmudic Jews from their societies, where the attribute of them expelling a culture from their midst was not necessarily wrong of them to do (and may truly have been God's will to expel a specific collection of local people that were bad and unrighteous). We should never use blanket statements like "all Jews are bad" or "all those that expelled Jews are bad". We should judge each case mindfully with open consideration. (The same is true of the crusades where righteous Christian soldiers executed murderous Moslem raiders. The crusades often get cast in a bad light despite the fact that the Christians of that day did the right thing to ensure the protection and safe passage of pilgrims.)

If a Talmudic Jewish person murdered a person, and a judge sentenced them to the electric chair. Their execution is not evidence that the Judge hates Talmudic Jews, it is merely a judgement ruled on an individual in accordance with a due process. The acts of the individual do not reflect on the larger group. If you had a biker gang that was committed to organized crime, it is possible that the gang is ruled to be a collection of outlaws and becomes thrown out of a country. If the biker gang happens to be composed primarily of one type of ethnicity, that does not speak against the entire ethnicity, only that collection of individuals that have membership in that specific group. If a group of mischievous kids start wearing the biker gang's colour, symbols, and referencing their subculture and claim to be adherents (though do not adhere to the actual immoral acts), that doesn't necessarily mean that the kids are genuinely part of that biker gang nor that they would share the same justification for rebuke. Discerning these things and how to deal with people can be a difficult task.

Hatred can be addictive like a drug, and many groups like the trillionaire-owned media corporations become like drug dealers to the masses. The media constantly tells us to hate people, and if that is all we listen to, it can start to permeate into our lives and our way of thinking. It's better to abstain from hate altogether.



While Talmudic Judaism have their own black and white definition for what counts as a Jew (and therefore Dispensationalism would also share that definition), Christianity defines Jews differently. Jews and Christians aren't mutually exclusive groups from a Christian perspective. So from a Christian perspective, the idea that "Christians go one way and Jews go another" makes no sense. This is the first thing we should be picking up on. In the end there are Christians and nonChristians, and that's it.

When we talk about "amill", if we mean what the RCC proposes, "amil" is a misnomer, it would be more to the understanding of a symbolic 1000 year kingdom ("sym-mil"?). Revelation is regarded as largely symbolic, having descriptions and imagery that applies to past events (such as the birth of Christ) as well as meanings and imagery that spread over the present and future. Despite accepting a symbolic meaning of things, there is nothing stopping that person from also accepting the concept that a double-entendre is present and that simultaneous literal meaning could exist in the text.

It's a complicated subject, but that is the nature of prophecy interpretation.
Also keeping in mind that talmud is a deviation from Torah
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,721
5,381
113
The Talmud encourages an ethnocentric racial supremacist attitude. It's easy to see that this has nothing to do with DNA and everything to do with culture and the lack of Christian sensibilities in Talmudic teachings. But even if Saul could be despised, it's not as though this carries over to his existence as Paul. Things like usury and other predatory business practices were often the cited reason for why these cultures were expelled from Christian countries historically. These expulsions weren't based on ethnicity (as Christians of Jewish heritage were allowed to stay), it was based solely on antiChristian cultural practices which can be found explicitly stated in the Talmud.

When Martin Luther lost his mind on "Jews" he wasn't talking about all people of Jewish heritage, he was talking about local Talmudic Jews and adherents of Talmudism generally. This happened because a Jewish apostate translated the Talmud for him. It's not hard to see that this may have happened many times in history in one form or another. If a scam artist was caught in the act of their scam, it's easy to see why a town might throw the scam artist out of town.

And even if these Talmudic Jewish supremacist attitudes were not adhered to as required by the Talmud, the perception still exists that any zealous adherent of the Talmud will commit the immoral acts condoned by the Talmud. If anyone is to have an honest conversation about how to smooth over this perception, the starting point is going to be about the Talmud. This is a topic that is often buried because talking about the Talmud reveals the fact that the religion is founded on bigoted, xenophobic, racial supremacism, that encourages predatory, unneighbourly practices against outsiders. The Talmud is absolutely worthy of rebuke.

All of that said about the teachings of the culture, it isn't necessarily the case that all people of a culture will adhere to evil teachings of that culture. A person with a good heart can hear an evil instruction and refuse to follow it. We see this kind of wisdom with the way that Jesus dealt with the adulteress. Had he wanted to show harsh judgement instead of mercy, he could have easily allowed the Pharisees to commit to their claim and see to it that the woman was executed. This isn't what happened, despite being a legally valid path under the ordinances of the law at the time.

If we apply this logic to adherents of the Talmud and other Rabbinic teachings, we see that despite the Talmud and many Rabbinic teachings being evil, the adherents of the Talmud themselves won't necessarily be evil if their heart does not resonate with the content. And thus even some Rabbis may not themselves be committed to spreading the vile teachings of the Talmud and instead focus on the neutral or positive messages instead.

That's the danger of stereotypes and putting people into categories. That's the danger of slogans like "all people of X ethnic/cultural group are bad" because it can cause a mental short-circuit to treat everyone within a group the same way when we should be considering the heart and mind of individuals individually. This can be said of Talmudic Jews, where some are evil while others may bear the fruits of kindness in their lives, and it can also be said about historical nations that expelled Talmudic Jews from their societies, where the attribute of them expelling a culture from their midst was not necessarily wrong of them to do (and may truly have been God's will to expel a specific collection of local people that were bad and unrighteous). We should never use blanket statements like "all Jews are bad" or "all those that expelled Jews are bad". We should judge each case mindfully with open consideration. (The same is true of the crusades where righteous Christian soldiers executed murderous Moslem raiders. The crusades often get cast in a bad light despite the fact that the Christians of that day did the right thing to ensure the protection and safe passage of pilgrims.)

If a Talmudic Jewish person murdered a person, and a judge sentenced them to the electric chair. Their execution is not evidence that the Judge hates Talmudic Jews, it is merely a judgement ruled on an individual in accordance with a due process. The acts of the individual do not reflect on the larger group. If you had a biker gang that was committed to organized crime, it is possible that the gang is ruled to be a collection of outlaws and becomes thrown out of a country. If the biker gang happens to be composed primarily of one type of ethnicity, that does not speak against the entire ethnicity, only that collection of individuals that have membership in that specific group. If a group of mischievous kids start wearing the biker gang's colour, symbols, and referencing their subculture and claim to be adherents (though do not adhere to the actual immoral acts), that doesn't necessarily mean that the kids are genuinely part of that biker gang nor that they would share the same justification for rebuke. Discerning these things and how to deal with people can be a difficult task.

Hatred can be addictive like a drug, and many groups like the trillionaire-owned media corporations become like drug dealers to the masses. The media constantly tells us to hate people, and if that is all we listen to, it can start to permeate into our lives and our way of thinking. It's better to abstain from hate altogether.



While Talmudic Judaism have their own black and white definition for what counts as a Jew (and therefore Dispensationalism would also share that definition), Christianity defines Jews differently. Jews and Christians aren't mutually exclusive groups from a Christian perspective. So from a Christian perspective, the idea that "Christians go one way and Jews go another" makes no sense. This is the first thing we should be picking up on. In the end there are Christians and nonChristians, and that's it.

When we talk about "amill", if we mean what the RCC proposes, "amil" is a misnomer, it would be more to the understanding of a symbolic 1000 year kingdom ("sym-mil"?). Revelation is regarded as largely symbolic, having descriptions and imagery that applies to past events (such as the birth of Christ) as well as meanings and imagery that spread over the present and future. Despite accepting a symbolic meaning of things, there is nothing stopping that person from also accepting the concept that a double-entendre is present and that simultaneous literal meaning could exist in the text.

It's a complicated subject, but that is the nature of prophecy interpretation.
Wow. that is quite a rant. Rambling, pointless, incoherent was my only takeaway. Nothing of any substance really.

And where is the Scripture to back up......anything? Or is this nothing more than your "opinion" of the "Jews"?
 

cv5

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So what does Jocund think?

That Jesus WAS the King of the Jews, then His people the Jews killed Him, short circuiting massive amounts of prophecy, and now He is not, will not ever be, and cannot be the King of the Jews anymore, and was stripped of His title and Kingdom forevermore by egregious acts of mere men?

I seriously doubt it man.
 

VCO

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Jocund said: It's a complicated subject, but that is the nature of prophecy interpretation.

Didn't you mean TWISTED prophecy interpretation ? ? ?

Believe what you what to, and we will believe what the Bible actually says.
 

VCO

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Jocund said: It's a complicated subject, but that is the nature of prophecy interpretation.

Didn't you mean TWISTED prophecy interpretation ? ? ?

Believe what you WANT to, and we will believe what the Bible actually says.
======== Corrrection
 

VCO

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@VCO

Are you saying that a new Jewish temple will help lead the Jews to Christ?

Thank You a real Question.

The Church-age is OVER by between Rev. 4:1 - Rev. 5:9. Somewhere in between, those two references the Rapture Happens.

How do I know ?

Revelation 5:8-9 (HCSB)
8 When He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because You were slaughtered, and You redeemed ⌊people⌋ for God by Your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation.

All of the Church has to be there to sing that NEW SONG.
I know it refers to ELDERS of the Church are there, because their are no position in Judaism called ELDERS. Elders in a village in Israel, was not a Religious Position, but a Political Position.

JESUS Never Ever used the Title CHURCH, HE called us the ASSEMBLY. That is what HE called JEWISH SAINTS.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock
I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

HE called both the O.T. Saints, and the N.T. Saints, and Both THE ASSEMBLY.
Two Folds, one ASSEMBLY. Yes I believe O.T. Saints will be part of the Rapture, too.


John 10:16 (ASV)
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: {Last of the O.T. Saints, N.T. Assembly does not start till the Day of Pentecost after HIS Resurrection.} them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. {at the Rapture.}

So Who tells the Jews that JESUS IS THEIR MESSIAH ?
THESE GUYS.

Revelation 11:3-12 (NRSV)
3 And I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for one thousand two hundred sixty days, wearing sackcloth."
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes; anyone who wants to harm them must be killed in this manner.
6 They have authority to shut the sky, so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.
7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,
8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that is prophetically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
9 For three and a half days members of the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb;
10 and the inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and celebrate and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to the inhabitants of the earth.
11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and those who saw them were terrified.
12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here!" And they went up to heaven in a cloud while their enemies watched them.

So who are the Two Witnesses ? You are asking me to speculate, but we have a Pretty good HINT.

Hebrews 9:27 (NRSV)
27 And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once, and after that the judgment,

WHO, are the two men in scriptures did not DIE ? ? ?

Enoch and Elijah.
 

VCO

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You see what some of you do not realize, the Millennial Kingdom for a 1000 years, is NOT A Continuation of the CHURCH-age. IT IS OVER by at least Rev. 5:9, and NO MORE CHURCH. Everyone of the Mortals, carried into that KINGDOM, will HAVE to worship at the TEMPLE, and KEEP the FESTIVAL OF THE BOOTHS. THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM IS FOR ISRAEL, NOT US. We are already in our Glorified Bodies.

AND IF THEY DON'T Rain will not fall on their CROPS. The Millennium is for the THE JEWS, while WE will reign as PRIESTS. Get used to it, IT WILL COME SOONER THAN MOST THINK. HIS WAY of running the TEMPLE, will be the ONLY WAY.

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Revelation 21:3 (NRSV)
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them;

Revelation 20:4-5 (NRSV)
4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 5:10 (HCSB)
10 You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth.


Choose your hat, but it WILL BE HIS WAY IN THE MILLENNIAL TEMPLE for the Mortals.

This may be TEMPLE LOOKS LIKE:



How do I know that the Mortals will have to become JEWISH ?

Zechariah 14:16-19 (HCSB)
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
17 Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.
18 And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.