How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Christians are different we are born again from above and have no need to say we are of this or that tribe. We belong to Gods family irrespective of what tribe we were born into on earth
You are 100% Correct as pertaining to the flesh.

GOD has a Eternal Glorious Claim upon us who are Born of HIS Holy Spirit.

Since GOD has adopted us, to what Family has HE placed us in?

ANSWER = There is only ONE Body of Christ and only ONE Eternal Family of GOD = the ISRAEL of GOD.

See Post #157 and study the word "adoption" in the NT writings
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,420
3,677
113
In the bodies (temples) of those receiving his mark.
How can the bodies of those who receive the mark be the temple of "God?" Won't those who take the mark be children of Satan?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
the promises were spoken to Israel so John hears the promise given only to
Israel

“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:2-

but it was fulfilled in what John saw people from all nations became the hiers israel and all the nations together through the lord Jesus and his gospel

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9

The word given to israel when the ot had then seperate was fulfilled in all the nations because of their rejection of their promises messiah

What John hears and then what he sees is showing us the promises bieng fulfilled different than what we thought

John hears prophecy and sees revelation of it

“And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. ( it’s being revealed come look ) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:1-2‬ ‭

John hears the prophecy and sees the revelation he hears that isreel alone would be chosen , but he saw that all nations of people were chosen. Wrote the throne having thier garments washed in the blood of the messiah

“ And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; that thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves.

They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted. Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim. Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:2, 6-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and they sang a new song with better lyrics

“And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:9-

the promises made to israel
I’m the ot are fulfilled in all
Believers everywhere from all nations and languages all kin of man can be born of God and become his hiers the New Testament reveals this To us believers in Jesus are the children of Abraham no matter thier skintone or bloodline or flesh
I FIRMLY AGREE with your TRUTHFUL Conclusion:
"Believers everywhere from all nations and languages all kin of man can be born of God and become his hiers the New Testament reveals this To us believers in Jesus are the children of Abraham no matter thier skintone or bloodline or flesh"

Question: Are you separating Jew from Gentile in CHRIST???

In the flesh = YES = but not in the Eternal Spirit of God = "you are ALL sons of God whether there is neither Jew or Greek/Gentile".
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
the promises were spoken to Israel so John hears the promise given only to
Israel

“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:2-

but it was fulfilled in what John saw people from all nations became the hiers israel and all the nations together through the lord Jesus and his gospel

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9

The word given to israel when the ot had then seperate was fulfilled in all the nations because of their rejection of their promises messiah

What John hears and then what he sees is showing us the promises bieng fulfilled different than what we thought

John hears prophecy and sees revelation of it

“And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. ( it’s being revealed come look ) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:1-2‬ ‭

John hears the prophecy and sees the revelation he hears that isreel alone would be chosen , but he saw that all nations of people were chosen. Wrote the throne having thier garments washed in the blood of the messiah

“ And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; that thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves.

They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted. Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim. Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:2, 6-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and they sang a new song with better lyrics

“And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:9-

the promises made to israel
I’m the ot are fulfilled in all
Believers everywhere from all nations and languages all kin of man can be born of God and become his hiers the New Testament reveals this To us believers in Jesus are the children of Abraham no matter thier skintone or bloodline or flesh
Hello my Brother,

Please forgive me if i read your post in error as you threw out there many things and did not clearly specify the distinction between Jews of the flesh and the ISRAEL of GOD = Born of the SPIRIT, which ALL our included in CHRIST.

Thanks Brother
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,772
8,613
113
In the bodies (temples) of those receiving his mark.
Don't conflate the issue. There is a physical temple to be rebuilt to facilitate end-time prophecy.

BTW......I DO agree that those who take the MOTB have fatally defiled the spiritual temple in a very real sense.

But that is not related to Dan 9 and 2 Thes 2, nor is it the intent of those authors to be anything less than literal.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
the promises were spoken to Israel so John hears the promise given only to
Israel

“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:2-

but it was fulfilled in what John saw people from all nations became the hiers israel and all the nations together through the lord Jesus and his gospel

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9

The word given to israel when the ot had then seperate was fulfilled in all the nations because of their rejection of their promises messiah

What John hears and then what he sees is showing us the promises bieng fulfilled different than what we thought

John hears prophecy and sees revelation of it

“And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. ( it’s being revealed come look ) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:1-2‬ ‭

John hears the prophecy and sees the revelation he hears that isreel alone would be chosen , but he saw that all nations of people were chosen. Wrote the throne having thier garments washed in the blood of the messiah

“ And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; that thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves.

They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted. Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim. Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭49:2, 6-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and they sang a new song with better lyrics

“And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:9-

the promises made to israel
I’m the ot are fulfilled in all
Believers everywhere from all nations and languages all kin of man can be born of God and become his hiers the New Testament reveals this To us believers in Jesus are the children of Abraham no matter thier skintone or bloodline or flesh
i FULLY AGREE with every Beautiful Promise of GOD you listed here = all fulfilled in CHRIST.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,420
3,677
113
God's Plan from the Beginning = God created all men to be His Temple.
That makes no sense. If that's the case, then the man of sin would take his seat in the heart of every person, not just those who take the mark.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Don't conflate the issue. There is a physical temple to be rebuilt to facilitate end-time prophecy.

BTW......I DO agree that those who take the MOTB have fatally defiled the spiritual temple in a very real sense.

But that is not related to Dan 9 and 2 Thes 2, nor is it the intent of those authors to be anything less than literal.
BOTH are TRUE and BOTH will occur during the same Time as Israel of the flesh is in bondage and has already adopted 'forced vaccinations".

The ETERNAL Truth concerning GOD is that which is Spiritual and not the temporary flesh.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
That makes no sense. If that's the case, then the man of sin would take his seat in the heart of every person, not just those who take the mark.
There are two separate issues here =
#1 the man of sin
and
#2 the man of sin

Just as CHRIST is the Son of Man/God's only Begotten Son so also are we Part of this One New MAN in CHRIST.

Just as there will be the 'man of sin' so also will the world be a 'corporate unified body/man of sin' thru the Mark.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,643
5,906
113
Dear Brother, You immediately opened with a false premise = "the promises were spoken to Israel so John hears the promise given only to
Israel"

Gospel Truth = John 1:9-13

The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God

A.) children born not of blood
B.) nor of the desire or will of man,
C.) but born of God.



GOSPEL Truth = Romans 9:23-26
that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

As He says also in Hosea:
I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
“And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

GOSPEL Truth = Romans 9:30

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness,
even the righteousness of faith;

CONCLUSION of GOSPEL TRUTH = Galatians 3:26-29

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Turn away from religious heresy that is not submitted unto the GOSPEL of JESUS the Christ.

You are currently looking thru the eyes of a religious error = separating Jew from Gentile in Christ.
“Dear Brother, You immediately opened with a false premise = "the promises were spoken to Israel so John hears the promise given only to Israel"

Ok brother
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
That makes no sense. If that's the case, then the man of sin would take his seat in the heart of every person, not just those who take the mark.
satan is a single entity = Arch Angel

whereas GOD is omnipresent in the HOLY SPIRIT

thus the reason and need for satan to have a technological advanced 'Mark' that connects people.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,643
5,906
113
uh yes...everyone has a name or family name....you dont get assigned one or make it yourself, if you are male Hebrew youd be born into that family and circumcised on the 8th day if your family wanted to keep your heritage. Men could always pull their pants down and see.

many culttures can trace their heritage back many generations. They all know where they came from.
yes it was a hard thing for Israelites to see past and seemed a constant debate on scripture that seemed to be a point of constant argument

“And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: and they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:1, 5-6, 22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to forget about the flesh ordinances and move into the spiritual identification of Gods children in the true circumcision

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is where Abraham’s children become Abraham’s children where chrirtians are born if we’re looking still tonthe flesh it’s a trap

“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,420
3,677
113
satan is a single entity = Arch Angel

whereas GOD is omnipresent in the HOLY SPIRIT

thus the reason and need for satan to have a technological advanced 'Mark' that connects people.
It sounds like you don't have a clue and you're just making it up on the fly.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
“Dear Brother, You immediately opened with a false premise = "the promises were spoken to Israel so John hears the promise given only to Israel"

Ok brother
i am asking for clarification from you as the theme of many on here is the separation of the 'Jew from Gentile 'in Christ.

When you opened with 'Israel', were you speaking of the Israel of God or the unregenerate Israel of the flesh?

There are two Jerusalems and two Israels = one of the flesh and the other of the SPIRIT

Clarification of these two are extremly important in the Scripture and with God.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
How can the bodies of those who receive the mark be the temple of "God?" Won't those who take the mark be children of Satan?
Was the temple, even in Jesus’s day, still the temple even though the Shekinah Glory of God’s Presence didn’t occupy it above the mercy seat?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
You are 100% Correct as pertaining to the flesh.

GOD has a Eternal Glorious Claim upon us who are Born of HIS Holy Spirit.

Since GOD has adopted us, to what Family has HE placed us in?

ANSWER = There is only ONE Body of Christ and only ONE Eternal Family of GOD = the ISRAEL of GOD.

See Post #157 and study the word "adoption" in the NT writings
then why does Revelation specify all the different tribes with just 12000 men in each. Note they are all unmarried.

The rest, of all the saints are obviously the billions of gentile believers. and I suppose women. Cos women dont really count in Israelite families...they cant be circumcised.
 
Sep 15, 2019
9,989
5,540
113
then why does Revelation specify all the different tribes with just 12000 men in each. Note they are all unmarried.

The rest, of all the saints are obviously the billions of gentile believers. and I suppose women. Cos women dont really count in Israelite families...they cant be circumcised.
Maybe women automatically count in Israelite families, because they don't have foreskin (representing the sinful nature) - so were counted as circumcised from birth? It was the men that were to be cut off from Israel unless they were circumcised. In my view, uncircumcision was a barrier to be removed, rather than circumcision providing special status for males over females.