How many sins were forgiven by Son on that cross to his Father

[Pilgrimshope]

I get a very uneasy feeling when someone tells me their sins that have not been committed "yet" are already forgiven. No, they are paid for but not forgiven until you ask for forgiveness when you sin. Of course, this leads to the "false version" [extreme Grace] of the OSAS concept.

To be clear, there's 2 versiosn of OSAS and one is false.

Yeah I mean this doesnt lend to the already forgiven theory

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that term willfully think of it if Ive sinned but won’t admit that I’ve sinned and I’m in the wrong if I refuse to come to repentance over it ……that’s my willfulness showing through

we do still have times we faulter and sin but it’s a huge difference if we won’t acknolwedge it and confess we’re wrong that’s evidence of our corrupt will still if we hate tbat we sinned that’s evidence of Gods Will forming within us

 

[Cameron143]

What happens to unconfessed sins? Do they remain unforgiven throughout eternity?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yeah.

John wrote his first epistle to his children in the Lord.

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen."

So, these are believers who knew John and walked closely with him. His message is not to create converts. John is giving instruction to his spiritual household.

Then, John gave them instruction concerning sins.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We should think of this as a court setting: "The power of sin is the law". In the same way, the power of sin can be undone by the application of the Greater Covenant than the law: Christ Jesus, or Lord and Savior. In the greater covenant, confession is required for forgiveness. It is then appropriate to thank Him for forgiving our sins and cleansing us of unrighteousness.

Amen Brother

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yeah I mean this doesnt lend to the already forgiven theory

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that term willfully think of it if Ive sinned but won’t admit that I’ve sinned and I’m in the wrong if I refuse to come to repentance over it ……that’s my willfulness showing through

we do still have times we faulter and sin but it’s a huge difference if we won’t acknolwedge it and confess we’re wrong that’s evidence of our corrupt will still if we hate tbat we sinned that’s evidence of Gods Will forming within us

Very well put Brother

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What happens to unconfessed sins? Do they remain unforgiven throughout eternity?

Do you ever pray the prayer David prayed, forgive me of sins I am unaware of and reveal to me?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

What happens to unconfessed sins? Do they remain unforgiven throughout eternity?

It depends really when God decides to remember them no more I would imagine

 

[Cameron143]

Do you ever pray the prayer David prayed, forgive me of sins I am unaware of and reveal to me?

No one confesses all their sins. So what happens?

 

[Cameron143]

It depends really when God decides to remember them no more I would imagine

When is that? Are we in Christ before the foundation of the world?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No one confesses all their sins. So what happens?

I just told you what David did which is confessing to sins he knew nothing about.

 

[Cameron143]

I just told you what David did which is confessing to sins he knew nothing about.

Has every person who was saved done so. If not, what happens as a result?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Has every person who was saved done so. If not, what happens as a result?

They have Biblical example to do so because God Inspired David to write it down. Who am I to judge? I just know we have example to do so because God made it so we know to do it.

 

[Cameron143]

They have Biblical example to do so because God Inspired David to write it down. Who am I to judge? I just know we have example to do so because God made it so we know to do it.

I've already acknowledged that one can pray like David. Suppose someone didn't. What would happen? Would their sins be forgiven?

 

[Deuteronomy]

I agree with you, except for the 1 John 1:9 ing it over and over and over again. Those doing that are aware of sin and not wanting to sin, and therefore are under Law and not free from under Law to do righteously as are called from God by Son for them to now do righteously. the original translation of 1 John 1:9 was to receive the forgiveness at the cross..........

Hello again Homwardbound, it's true that, unlike 1 John 1:7, the forgiveness and cleansing of our sins by God in v9 looks back to the Cross as a past, present and future reality that has, for us, already been accomplished (since both words, ἀφίημι/forgive and καθαρίζω/cleanse, are in the Greek aorist tense).

However, this is not the case for 'us' (and what our half of v9 tells us to do), as ὁμολογέω/confess is in the Greek ~present~ tense instead. This Greek present tense indicates that an action is happening both presently and/or ongoing, thus the reason that our "confession" half of v9 is something that we are to do "over and over and over again", as often as we need to because of the ongoing sins in our lives.

I thought that I should also point out that I am not the one that you are actually disagreeing with. Rather, your disagreement is with the Holy Spirit, and also with the Apostle John, who (interestingly) included himself in the mix with the rest of us (in 1 John 1-2, see the words in bold at the bottom of this post) as someone who needed to continue to confess 'his' ongoing sins to God, as well, just like the rest of us need to do (not to be saved again or to remain saved, as the Law (our legal standing before our holy God) can only be satisfied at the Cross, but for the purpose of getting back the close fellowship that we enjoyed with Him, our loving Abba, which is lost, to one degree or another, whenever we sin).

As the murderer/adulterer King David prayed in Psalm 51:12, "restore unto me the ~JOY~ of Thy salvation", not salvation itself, because that was never lost (even though his sins were heinous).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - question, if you're home watching something on TV, and when reaching for some food you end up knocking your wife's most precious family heirloom to the floor and shattering it into a hundred pieces, do you say anything to her, or does "love mean never having to say 'you're sorry'" in your home? The Christian life is ALL about the ongoing and (hopefully) growing personal relationship that we have with our loving, heavenly Father/Abba .. cf Matthew 7:22-23; John 17:3. Or as one of my word studies puts it, "sin in a Christian’s life is a matter, not between a lawbreaker and a judge, but between a child and his father."

You know what, that word study (on 1 John 1:9/by Wuest) says it all better than I could ever hope to, so I'll post it for all to see/read in next post below.

​

1 John 1​

7 If we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. ​

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. ​

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ​

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. ​

​

1 John 2​

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we ~have~ an Advocate (now and ongoing) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; ​

2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

​

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I've already acknowledged that one can pray like David. Suppose someone didn't. What would happen? Would their sins be forgiven?

We find in the Bible about being sincere in repentance and seeking forgiveness. If God, Himself, were to ask this question to me. I would have to revert back to sincerity. And if God, Himself, asked for clarification of what I meant concerning sincerity. I would say that I believe there's a major distinction between someone who is sincere in the past about seeking forgiveness compared to someone with the attitude it's already taken cared for so they went about doing their thing. The fact that we read God knows and judges the heart tells us He is aware of people's intentions and feelings towards asking for forgiveness of their sins. Someone who is sorrowful compared to someone who thinks they are owed I believe God looks at and applies to His decision..

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

When is that? Are we in Christ before the foundation of the world?

I'm not sure what your asking now.

I see things different I see the scripture we where in him before the foundation of the word as genesis 1.27-28. to mean the life of Jesus was to be the life of all men, created in one man, in Adam.

The only time men where holy and blameless was before the fall, as Adam was had the life of all men in him, which is the life of Jesus.

But after fall his life was still in Adam because there has to be life still there to be under the power of his death.

On judgment day revalation says the ones who are not in the book of life will be Judged accordingly to what they have done,

So i would say up untill Judgement day people who are not yet in the lambs book of life still have every chance of being in the the lambs book of life.

I would say with some people there sins are remembered no more as theyve had death attoned by Christ now, and for those walking in sin or the unsaved there remembered no more to. But only because God has ways of automatic punishment in each and ever person, as his life is in each and every person.

As scripture reveals on Judgment day they will all be judged accordingly to what they have done.

This means everytime an unsaved person sins they will be made aware,

But how are they made aware if there unsaved ?

Well to me it's obvious

It's because the power of death exists in all men who are unsaved.

Which means his life is still in every unsaved person, as you can't have no life in someone without the power of his death being there.

I'm sure where people get lost is they don't realise the separation is in his life in everyman.

As they forget many passages or haven't dwelled on them long enough.

John 1 spells it out really, everything that has been made has been made By Jesus.

All life has been made by Jesus.

He's the father of all life.

We can add objections as to why he may not be the father of all life.

But I do believe through scripture all theese objections can be answered, with some common sense really

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

When is that? Are we in Christ before the foundation of the world?

Oh on another note the lambs book of of life is also prophecy, the lambs book of life woukd have been closed after the fall.

And would not have come into play untill after the cross, as that was when the lamb defeated death.

No names would have been stamped with approval untill then.

Revalation reveals the holy scriptures where not reopened untill the day Jesus defeated death, as in rose from the grave.

So it would be once upon time every life woukd have been in the lambs books,

As it's his life in everyman.

It would be that's named would be blotted out of the lambs book after he rose from the grave.

So I believe everyones names goes in the lambs book until it's blotted out or stamped with approval

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I've already acknowledged that one can pray like David. Suppose someone didn't. What would happen? Would their sins be forgiven?

well I'm not sure you can Judge one man by another man's rightous standards.

 

[Cameron143]

We find in the Bible about being sincere in repentance and seeking forgiveness. If God, Himself, were to ask this question to me. I would have to revert back to sincerity. And if God, Himself, asked for clarification of what I meant concerning sincerity. I would say that I believe there's a major distinction between someone who is sincere in the past about seeking forgiveness compared to someone with the attitude it's already taken cared for so they went about doing their thing. The fact that we read God knows and judges the heart tells us He is aware of people's intentions and feelings towards asking for forgiveness of their sins. Someone who is sorrowful compared to someone who thinks they are owed I believe God looks at and applies to His decision..

You have sidestepped my question now in a multitude of creative ways. If you don't want to answer, just say so.

 

[Cameron143]

well I'm not sure you can Judge one man by another man's rightous standards.

I'm not judging anyone. I'm not asking about a person. I'm asking about unconfessed sin.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Very well put Brother

Yeah I think that term willfully in that set of verses is important