How much can a Christian sin and still be saved?

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BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#21
Oct 7, 2012
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#21
Marcelo said:
But David repented bitterly in sackcloth and ashes and I'm not sure the preacher in question will humble himself, just as David did, because he is not attending services in his local church and is nowhere to be seen. Most church members think that his sin is one that leads to death and are rejecting him. What is a sin unto death, anyway?
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One might suggest those church members are hypocrites forgetting that God forgave them their sins by His grace. They are no different than him, depending upon the grace of God. Is not restoration the purpose of correction? How then can this man be restored? If the church alienates him in condemnation they are misrepresenting the truth, but if they reject him for a time of healing that is another matter.

How can we be forgiven so much and then not forgive this preacher? Amends need to be made, yes. Positions dethroned, yes. Yet will they cast him out not willing to uplift a brother in Christ, succumbing to weaknesses of the flesh? Since when were they perfect?

These things should be handled with care. The preacher not showing up to church is no surprise. He is ashamed. Caught red handed. Yet, what if instead of the church members rejecting him they went to see him? Asked him how he was doing? Attempted to restore him and bring healing to the situation? Gave sound, godly, wisdom into the marriage?

Where is our love?
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#22
Sep 8, 2018
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#22
BenFTW said:
One might suggest those church members are hypocrites forgetting that God forgave them their sins by His grace. They are no different than him, depending upon the grace of God. Is not restoration the purpose of correction? How then can this man be restored? If the church alienates him in condemnation they are misrepresenting the truth, but if they reject him for a time of healing that is another matter.

How can we be forgiven so much and then not forgive this preacher? Amends need to be made, yes. Positions dethroned, yes. Yet will they cast him out not willing to uplift a brother in Christ, succumbing to weaknesses of the flesh? Since when were they perfect?

These things should be handled with care. The preacher not showing up to church is no surprise. He is ashamed. Caught red handed. Yet, what if instead of the church members rejecting him they went to see him? Asked him how he was doing? Attempted to restore him and bring healing to the situation? Gave sound, godly, wisdom into the marriage?

Where is our love?
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.................

and we wonder why the churches have scandal after scandal after scandal coming out? Oy vey!
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#23
Feb 4, 2016
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#23
Hevosmies said:
.................

and we wonder why the churches have scandal after scandal after scandal coming out? Oy vey!
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In this regard I think my church is right: to prevent scandal after scandal after scandal they permanently remove from office ministers who are caught committing adultery.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#24
Sep 3, 2016
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#24
Marcelo said:
A well known preacher in my denomination was found to have been cheating on his wife for the last two years. He has already been permanently removed from his ministry and the only question now is: Can he still be saved? Is it possible "to renew him again to repentance "? (Heb 6:4)
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In spite of the terrible sins that David committed (which was as bad as you can get), it did not stop God from His Son being called the "Son of David." Those who walk in the spirit will always have shortcomings (acts of sin) until the trump sounds.

This is why we must understand what justification is and why it is the first subject in the book of Romans. It lays down the foundation as I go through sanctification.

Justification gives me the ability to get back up from every failure no matter how many times and stand up and go through this process and learn it. Justification gives us a legal standing with God that is not cancelled because of the acts of sin. So if I fail (and we will) at this same thing a thousand times - God forbid! We are a work in progress. Remember Jesus said I did not come to condemn (John 3:17).

Justification is not what we do, and not what I am, and not what I worked for. It is what Jesus did and my faith in it that gives me the standing with God that I need to carry on my Christian experience. Sometime I do it well, and sometimes I do it not so well, but his justifying Grace will not fail unless my faith fails. It is just if I have never sinned and just if I have always obeyed.

Pastor Loren Larson - JSM

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 2 Cor. 5:18-19
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#25
Oct 7, 2012
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#25
Hevosmies said:
.................

and we wonder why the churches have scandal after scandal after scandal coming out? Oy vey!
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Maybe you can explain the correlation?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#26
#26
Is it because he's a preacher that makes it bad??? Or is it the sin that is bad?????
All have sinned my friend.....there is not one righteous no not one.
But exposing the nakedness of a brother to others is a sin too.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#27
Jun 30, 2015
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#27
Restoration does not necessarily mean "to a former position of trust and influence". It makes more sense when interpreted as "restoration to Christian fellowship". That should not happen without acknowledgement of specific sin as sinful.

Our culture often accepts as "repentance" an explanation of the reasons why something (sinful) happened. That's not repentance; it's self-justification. "What I'm accused of doing wasn't really what happened. Actually, there are all these mitigating factors that both absolve me of wrongdoing and the need to repent, and justify my immediate restoration to whatever position I previously had." Um... no.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#28
Jul 18, 2017
24,429
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#28
Marcelo said:
A well known preacher in my denomination was found to have been cheating on his wife for the last two years. He has already been permanently removed from his ministry and the only question now is: Can he still be saved? Is it possible "to renew him again to repentance "? (Heb 6:4)
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Without necessarily addressing this specific incident (since only God knows hearts), to answer the question in the title, God puts a limit on any Christian sinning blatantly and deliberately. In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, judgment was immediate. The Church was in its infancy and Christians needed to be very clear about sin in the believer's life.

For others, there may be opportunities to repent, but ultimately the Bible says that *THERE IS A SIN UNTO DEATH*. This is specifically regarding Christians, and the death is premature physical death -- the termination of an unacceptable testimony. This does not mean that the person will lose their salvation, but it does mean that they will lose their lives, and probably their rewards.

As to the matter of "renewing them again to repentance" that pertains to apostasy, not sins of the flesh and spirit. Apostates are beyond redemption.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#29
Jul 18, 2017
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#29
MadHermit said:
>King David is a murderer and an adulterer. Yet he is the only man in the Bible to be later described as "a man after God's own heart."
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David repented and was restored. It has no bearing on this matter. Had David persisted in his sinful behavior, he would have been dead.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#30
Oct 7, 2012
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#30
Dino246 said:
Restoration does not necessarily mean "to a former position of trust and influence". It makes more sense when interpreted as "restoration to Christian fellowship". That should not happen without acknowledgement of specific sin as sinful.

Our culture often accepts as "repentance" an explanation of the reasons why something (sinful) happened. That's not repentance; it's self-justification. "What I'm accused of doing wasn't really what happened. Actually, there are all these mitigating factors that both absolve me of wrongdoing and the need to repent, and justify my immediate restoration to whatever position I previously had." Um... no.
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Right. I am not necessarily advocating that he keep his position or anything like that (I'm sure such situations have occurred however). I even said to dethrone the person from their position. This is about Christian fellowship, as you said.
 
C

Chuckyz2

Member
#31
Jul 10, 2018
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#31
pottersclay said:
Is it because he's a preacher that makes it bad??? Or is it the sin that is bad?????
All have sinned my friend.....there is not one righteous no not one.
But exposing the nakedness of a brother to others is a sin too.
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Not all "have" sinned. Everyone sins. All sin leads to death.
Judge not less ye be judged. not for you, just saying.
As a head of a Church, he should be removed.
His wife should divorce him.
There are many people who do not commit physical adultery.
Preachers should at least refrain from the bad sins.
Murder.
Child molesting.
Rape.
Stealing.
ADULTRY!
The temptation exist in us all.
Those with Love for God resist.
Those who are not chosen can't resist.
They therefore should have no place teaching,
or any longer residing in the same house as their
loyal spouse. They are to be put out until they repent.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#32
Dec 6, 2016
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#32
Hevosmies said:
Oy vey! God only knows if the man is saved is my answer!

Sadly this is too common in churches today. I wonder whats going on? Has it always been like this or is this just part of the last days apostasy? Seems like there is a scandal somewhere all the time.

Maybe its the internet, so we hear about it more than before
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I am 93 and remember living in a culture very different from the culture of today. The propaganda we have today of how sex is considered has had its effects.

As an example, in the 60's we spend several months at sea with no TV. When we returned to land living, TV and what they showed was a shock we commented on. People on land had gradually been introduced to such ideas as "if you are in love have sex immediately". People didn't understand that it was a shock to us.

I am still so much a product of the culture of the older generation that clothing to advertise a person's sexuality for all to see seems obscene to me. It is reflected in our society today.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#33
Dec 6, 2016
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#33
The Lord is very clear about how to handle situations like this. Anyone who sins in any way but denying Him has the opportunity to take that sin to Him with repentance and it will be wiped out as if it never happened. The key to this is repentance. We are to mimic God in this, we are not to judge the person, but leave that to the Lord to do. We are to forget it.

We are also given the duty of keeping our churches clean of members who use sex in a sinful way. Scripture gives a precise way of handling this situation.

The life of David, beloved of the Lord, is an example of this. David sinned with sexual immorality among other things, and repented. Because our world is run as an orderly world with cause and effect unchangeable included, there was earthly consequences. His son with Bathsheba died, for instance, and David died a sorrowful old man. But David was completely forgiven and wiped clean of his sins in the eyes of the Lord for his eternal salvation.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#34
#34
Humans fail, humans sin.
Your church did the right thing by stepping him down.

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19‭-‬20 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/jas.5.19-20.NASB
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#35
Feb 4, 2016
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#35
pottersclay said:
Is it because he's a preacher that makes it bad??? Or is it the sin that is bad?????
All have sinned my friend.....there is not one righteous no not one.
But exposing the nakedness of a brother to others is a sin too.
Click to expand...
His being a preacher makes the matter worse because he had always claimed that his sermons were inspired by the Holy Spirit. All Christians are sinners, but not all are adulterers, and in my church adulterers, fornicators, etc, are not allowed to preach.

I am not exposing anyone's nakedness! Did I mention the preacher's name or his local church? Not even the denomination's name is mentioned here. It was his own wife who exposed his falsehood. He had long been looked upon as a prophet, claiming to have revelations from God, and people came from far and wide just to see him preach.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#36
#36
Hevosmies said:
Hey there. I cant send you a PM, nor are you online in the chat there so I will go offtopic real quick:

I want to apologize to you. I still think Joyce Meyer is definately teaching heresy by saying Jesus burnt in hell, but I want to apologize to you for how I phrased it. I cant even remember exactly how I said it, but I do remember that I was being UNNECESSARILY rude to you! Im sorry!
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Thanks! I was kind of taken aback as we had exchanged pleasant posts in the past...so moving forward and no problem

but one thing...I think she taught those things years ago but in the 3 or so years I have sometimes tuned in, I have never heard her
teach or say those things. I'm certainly not a supporter of WOF by any means :)
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#37
Feb 4, 2016
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#37
Blik said:
I am 93 and remember living in a culture very different from the culture of today. The propaganda we have today of how sex is considered has had its effects.
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Blik, you were born in the twenties? and so clear minded? Great! :) I am proud to have been born in the fifties, so I imagine how proud you must be of your generation.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#38
Dec 12, 2013
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#38
Marcelo said:
A well known preacher in my denomination was found to have been cheating on his wife for the last two years. He has already been permanently removed from his ministry and the only question now is: Can he still be saved? Is it possible "to renew him again to repentance "? (Heb 6:4)
Click to expand...
Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more......

God chastens his children.......and NO man is above any particular sin...........
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#39
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#39
7seasrekeyed said:
Thanks! I was kind of taken aback as we had exchanged pleasant posts in the past...so moving forward and no problem

but one thing...I think she taught those things years ago but in the 3 or so years I have sometimes tuned in, I have never heard her
teach or say those things. I'm certainly not a supporter of WOF by any means :)
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if She stopped teaching that. I will also repent and recant of that statement!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
#40
Well james says one sin will make us cursed. If this is true, does any of us deserve salvation?
 
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