HOW MUCH MORE THROUGH THE ONE, JESUS CHRIST!

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
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[TD="class: yiv6329873475mcnTextContent, align: center"]For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ…
Romans 5:17[/TD]
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[TD="class: yiv6329873475mcnTextContent"][h=2]- MARCH 7 -
LIVE THE ‘MUCH MORE’ LIFE[/h][HR][/HR]
When God created man, He did not intend for man to grow old, become weak and powerless, suffer diseases and die—first the physical death, then the second or eternal death.

God never meant for man to go through all these and for death to reign. But because of one man’s offense—that man being Adam—death reigns.

The ultimate death is the second or eternal death in the lake of fire. Before this death is physical death. Before physical death, you have diseases and illnesses. Not all diseases and illnesses lead to death, but they are manifestations of death. One step before diseases and illnesses is tiredness, weakness and powerlessness, which are signs and symptoms of death. Now, all these are forms of death. As you can see, death reigns!

Are you resigned to the fact that death can strike whoever, whenever and wherever it wishes? Are you allowing death to reign in your life and in the lives of your loved ones? Or are you allowing God’s Word to tell you the truth about death?

“For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more…” Thank God for the “much more”! What Jesus, the last Adam, did is much more and far greater than what the first Adam did. We are those who have received the “abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness”. Therefore, our “much more” is that we will reign in life through Jesus Christ!

God considers death an enemy. He came to destroy death and give us eternal life. And the more we walk in the grace of God and His righteousness, the more we will reign in life. The more we believe in His grace or undeserved favor, and the more we know that we have been made righteous by His blood and not our good behavior, the more we will reign over all forms of death!

Destined to Reign Devotional by Pastor Joseph Prince



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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
155
63
#2
“For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more…” Thank God for the “much more”! What Jesus, the last Adam, did is much more and far greater than what the first Adam did. We are those who have received the “abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness”. Therefore, our “much more” is that we will reign in life through Jesus Christ!


Amen, as I go out into the world today .. this MUCH MORE is how to deal with all and any situation that comes.

Gal.2:20

[SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,897
412
83
#3
This sounds like he's saying that if you have enough faith, not only will you be constantly physically healed, you won't even physically die. Really quite the opposite of what Scripture says:Hebrews 9:27 [FONT=&quot]And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,[/FONT]
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
155
63
#4
This sounds like he's saying that if you have enough faith, not only will you be constantly physically healed, you won't even physically die. Really quite the opposite of what Scripture says:Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


It means we have a choice now in our born again spirit man to see life as Jesus died to give it to us....or not. I suppose if we insist on seeing the limitations of our flesh ... the world.. and the devil... we will be lacking in all those areas.

But when we chose to see and cultivate Jesus presence and by faith walk in newness of life., we will live as He promised... We will come and go from His good pasture., I came to give them life and that more abundantly. How that manifests in your life today will depend on where you look. To self.. or to Jesus. I choose Jesus!!!


John 10:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the Door; anyone who enters in through Me will be saved (will live). He will come in and he will go out [freely], and will find pasture.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance (to the full, till it [SUP][a][/SUP]overflows).
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd risks and lays down His [own] life for the sheep.
 
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Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#5
How about a good devotional along with your "God couldn't help it, so we must reign" devotional?

“We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
Acts 14:22
God’s people have their trials. It was never designed by God, when he chose his people, that they should be an untried people. They were chosen in the furnace of affliction; they were never chosen to worldly peace and earthly joy. Freedom from sickness and the pains of mortality was never promised them; but when their Lord drew up the charter of privileges, he included chastisements amongst the things to which they should inevitably be heirs. Trials are a part of our lot; they were predestinated for us in Christ’s last legacy. So surely as the stars are fashioned by his hands, and their orbits fixed by him, so surely are our trials allotted to us: he has ordained their season and their place, their intensity and the effect they shall have upon us. Good men must never expect to escape troubles; if they do, they will be disappointed, for none of their predecessors have been without them. Mark the patience of Job; remember Abraham, for he had his trials, and by his faith under them, he became the “Father of the faithful.” Note well the biographies of all the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, and you shall discover none of those whom God made vessels of mercy, who were not made to pass through the fire of affliction. It is ordained of old that the cross of trouble should be engraved on every vessel of mercy, as the royal mark whereby the King’s vessels of honour are distinguished. But although tribulation is thus the path of God’s children, they have the comfort of knowing that their Master has traversed it before them; they have his presence and sympathy to cheer them, his grace to support them, and his example to teach them how to endure; and when they reach “the kingdom,” it will more than make amends for the “much tribulation” through which they passed to enter it.

(Spurgeon Morning and Evening)

Good news! God is still sovereign and knows what he is doing!
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,217
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#6
It means we have a choice now in our born again spirit man to see life as Jesus died to give it to us....or not. I suppose if we insist on seeing the limitations of our flesh ... the world.. and the devil... we will be lacking in all those areas.

But when we chose to see and cultivate Jesus presence and by faith walk in newness of life., we will live as He promised... We will come and go from His good pasture., I came to give them life and that more abundantly. How that manifests in your life today will depend on where you look. To self.. or to Jesus. I choose Jesus!!!


John 10:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the Door; anyone who enters in through Me will be saved (will live). He will come in and he will go out [freely], and will find pasture.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance (to the full, till it [SUP][a][/SUP]overflows).
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd risks and lays down His [own] life for the sheep.
To reign in life does not mean blab-n-grab it. It means to live in triumph over sin and death:

For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:17 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.5.17.NLT
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,354
384
83
#7
Our best life is not here on this earth. Our best life is with Christ in eternity.

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,475
396
83
#8
BEWARE! FALSE TEACHER ON BOARD!
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[TD="class: yiv6329873475mcnTextContent"][HR][/HR]Are you resigned to the fact that death can strike whoever, whenever and wherever it wishes? Are you allowing death to reign in your life and in the lives of your loved ones? Or are you allowing God’s Word to tell you the truth about death?...
The more we believe in His grace or undeserved favor, and the more we know that we have been made righteous by His blood and not our good behavior, the more we will reign over all forms of death![/TD]
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Another tidbit of false teaching from the prince of false teachers. So just because Christians accept the fact that physical death is the fate of all human beings including Christians (until the Rapture), they are allowing death to REIGN in their lives and the lives of their loved ones. If that is not utter nonsense, then we don't know what nonsense is. And then he goes on to say "we will reign over all forms of death" as though we have any control over our life span on earth!

Every person (saved or unsaved) has a specific lifetime on earth, and nothing can change that. Since it is APPOINTED unto man once to die, physical death is by appointment. But the whole point of the Gospel is that no one needs to face the second death. Therefore all humans beings are commanded to obey the Gospel -- commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Which is a guarantee of eternal life, regardless of physical death. All the saints will be resurrected and receive perfect, immortal, glorified bodies. But that is not the message brought by JP and JM.

When are we going to see an end to these postings of false doctrines by false teachers?
 
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FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,123
124
63
#9
HMMM. I may be mistaken but I do not see where it says we don't physically die. What it says to me is why are we focusing on death with fear when Jesus said "do not be afraid". I also believe we have eternal life in Jesus. Oddly enough I believe it is saying almost the exact same thing as spurgeon's piece. We will suffer, we will ail but do we let these things rule our lives or do we rely on God?
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#10
HMMM. I may be mistaken but I do not see where it says we don't physically die. What it says to me is why are we focusing on death with fear when Jesus said "do not be afraid". I also believe we have eternal life in Jesus. Oddly enough I believe it is saying almost the exact same thing as spurgeon's piece. We will suffer, we will ail but do we let these things rule our lives or do we rely on God?
The difference is clear.

Joe thinks "God never meant." Chuck thinks God tries his people -- on purpose.

One god is inept. The real one is intentional.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,475
396
83
#11
HMMM. I may be mistaken but I do not see where it says we don't physically die. What it says to me is why are we focusing on death with fear when Jesus said "do not be afraid"...
Who is focusing on death WITH FEAR? Certainly not genuine Christians. And are Christians in control over when they will die physically? Do you see how much baloney JP constantly puts out? Every week another false doctrine or half-truth which is cut and pasted by JM to aggravate Christians.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
155
63
#12
HMMM. I may be mistaken but I do not see where it says we don't physically die. What it says to me is why are we focusing on death with fear when Jesus said "do not be afraid". I also believe we have eternal life in Jesus. Oddly enough I believe it is saying almost the exact same thing as spurgeon's piece. We will suffer, we will ail but do we let these things rule our lives or do we rely on God?


You're not mistaken no one said we don't physically die. I think people tend to see what they want to see based on what is going on in their own lives. So it reflects on the way they see others too... And God.

I don't always agree with Charles Spurgeon and that is not a sin or against God. I don't always agree with the people who came on this thread who are angry. That is not a sin either that I don't agree with them.

I don't look at Charles Spurgeon or Joseph Prince when I want to see God. I have been learning to look at Jesus. Pastor Prince is more in line with what I see the Bible says about the Christian walk.

Each believer is on this pilgrim journey here on earth and we are ALL headed to heaven where Jesus is. In heaven., there will be no more trials and tribulations from the world., the flesh and the devil. The difference now is while we each are here., we each have to decide on how we are each going to chose to travel out our Christian lives.

I've learned through much trial and error I can take the elevator Jesus provided for me and get to the top without stress., sweat., fear., anxiety and lack. Others have chosen to take the stairs.., and are tired., angry., stressed., annoyed., sweaty and anxious. We each are going to get to the top no matter what because we accepted Jesus as our Savior.

I say to each person who posted here., how you chose to walk is totally up to you. We each have to make that choice based on our relationship with Christ. No one can make that choice for us.

People are free to prefer Charles Spurgeon over Joseph Prince. Doesn't hurt my feelings. I like them both.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,899
699
113
#13
Pure, offensive Word Faith drivel about healing. And SO condemnatory.


So, according to JM and JP, in this post, we are not supposed to get old and die? Where is that in the Bible? What ugly twisting of the Scriptures!!


Young Christians, sick Christians, hurting Christians can come here and be judged and condemned for for not having enough faith?? Enough faith in their lies is more like it.


It was so nice JM stopped posting for a while. We were actually discussing the Bible, instead of this ridiculous heresy.


I am going to keep reporting all these disgusting copy and pastes, because Hypergrace is a banned topic. And Joseph Prince invented hypergrace, an amlagation of all the worst aspects of Word Faith, with his own money grubbing take one things.

[FONT=&quot]Therefore there is now no [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]condemnation for those who are [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]in [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Christ Jesus.” Romans 8:1

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Did I mention delusional? Does anyone really believe this trite nonsense? [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,899
699
113
#14
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[TD="class: yiv6329873475mcnTextContent, align: center"]For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ…
Romans 5:17[/TD]
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[TD="class: yiv6329873475mcnTextContent"]When God created man, He did not intend for man to grow old, become weak and powerless, suffer diseases and die—first the physical death, then the second or eternal death.

God never meant for man to go through all these and for death to reign. But because of one man’s offense—that man being Adam—death reigns.

The ultimate death is the second or eternal death in the lake of fire. Before this death is physical death. Before physical death, you have diseases and illnesses. Not all diseases and illnesses lead to death, but they are manifestations of death. One step before diseases and illnesses is tiredness, weakness and powerlessness, which are signs and symptoms of death. Now, all these are forms of death. As you can see, death reigns!

Are you resigned to the fact that death can strike whoever, whenever and wherever it wishes? Are you allowing death to reign in your life and in the lives of your loved ones? Or are you allowing God’s Word to tell you the truth about death?

“For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more…” Thank God for the “much more”! What Jesus, the last Adam, did is much more and far greater than what the first Adam did. We are those who have received the “abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness”. Therefore, our “much more” is that we will reign in life through Jesus Christ!

God considers death an enemy. He came to destroy death and give us eternal life. And the more we walk in the grace of God and His righteousness, the more we will reign in life. The more we believe in His grace or undeserved favor, and the more we know that we have been made righteous by His blood and not our good behavior, the more
we will reign over all forms of death!


Destined to Reign Devotional by Pastor Joseph Prince
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You're not mistaken no one said we don't physically die. I think people tend to see what they want to see based on what is going on in their own lives. So it reflects on the way they see others too... And God.

Each believer is on this pilgrim journey here on earth and we are ALL headed to heaven where Jesus is. In heaven., there will be no more trials and tribulations from the world., the flesh and the devil. The difference now is while we each are here., we each have to decide on how we are each going to chose to travel out our Christian lives.

I've learned through much trial and error I can take the elevator Jesus provided for me and get to the top without stress., sweat., fear., anxiety and lack. Others have chosen to take the stairs.., and are tired., angry., stressed., annoyed., sweaty and anxious. We each are going to get to the top no matter what because we accepted Jesus as our Savior.

I say to each person who posted here., how you chose to walk is totally up to you. We each have to make that choice based on our relationship with Christ. No one can make that choice for us.
So, I thought it important to exegete Romans 5:17, which is the basis of this dreadful post. Of course, I see no one is fooled, generally, I just am concerned for those who are hurting, or newbies, and would feel the full weight of condemnation of this horrible lie.

First, talk about a works-salvation. Yes, you too can choose your own destiny. Don't let the Holy Spirit lead you.It may be healthier in the long run to take the stairs, rather than the elevator, and that may be the plan God has for you, but feel free to "chose what you want, and leave the rest!" That really is the essence of eisegesis, isn't it? So that is Joanie's ridiculous post, now to deal with the garbage the OP, and that deceiver, Joseph Prince.

First, let's deal with Romans 5, from where JP stole this verse. The entire chapter is about justification. And that means made righteous because of Jesus death on the cross, and justified from sin. And no, sickness, trials, tribulations are NOT death at all! They are part of living in a fallen world. And no, Jesus did not come to deliver these mortal coils from problems on earth. Jesus came for one reason - to save his people from their sin.

"She will give birth to a son, and you are to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.” Matt 1:21

It seems to me that if Jesus did come to save us or deliver us from our sickness and diseases, Matthew would have made that very clear in this verse. But, no, the promise was for a Saviour from our sins, because that is what the whole Bible is about. Now, I can agree that Adam, through his disobedience brought death into this world. But seriously! "Reigning over all forms of death" as JP seems to think the Bible says! Not!

So, let's look at Romans 5, so we really do know what it is about, not one verse pulled out of context. Paul sets the tone in verse 1, after his "therefore," which comes out of the analysis of sin, for the Gentiles, for the Jews, in the first 4 chapters in the book.

"Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace[a]with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 HCSB

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 ESV

Notice that the full meaning of justification, is "declared righteous by faith," in HCSB. Justification is a great and true word, but sadly, people like Prince and Joanie don't seem to know what it means. Well, they probably think righteousness has something to do with being healed and taking the elevator to the top, but, you get what I am saying.

The fact is, if Paul was including healing and being safe from all trials, why, only 2 verses later, does he say the follow?

"Not only that, but we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character and character produces hope." Romans 5:3

Taking the easy way, the elevator doesn't produce hope. SUFFERING DOES! And lest anyone try to reinterpret and define θλῖψις (thlipisis), here is the definition by Bauer (BDAG) the top Greek Lexicon, which is based on knowledge of Koine Greek in the Bible and all the other documents, as well as drawing on classical Greek and the LXX.

" θλῖψις noun feminine
1. trouble that inflicts distress, oppression, affliction, tribulation. Of distress that is brought about by outward circumstances.
2. inward experience of distress, affliction, trouble.

In fact, it doesn't take a Greek scholar to figure out that in the 1st century AD, sickness and other trials were a normal part of every day life. In fact, that is why it was a miracle Jesus healed people! Because medicine was primitive, people lived hard lives and died young. Others, blind, lame, had no hope at all. It is laughable to lay this 21st century perverted definition of suffering as being only "suffering for the gospel" as Kenneth Copeland said. And since he is one of the leaders this heinous Word Faith movement, and JP a follower, he is obviously not thinking straight when he denies the reality of verse 3. Well, I assume he is either denying reality, or just leaving it out, because it does not suit his heretical views on Christianity.

Why heresy, and not just bad doctrine? Because, it is touching on soteriology and Christology. Did Jesus come to save us from our sins, or did he die on the cross, because, (out of context) "by his stripes we are healed."

Anyway, continuing on with justification by faith in Romans 5, wow, this is hard. Every verse just screams the same thing:

We are saved from our sins, through Jesus death on the cross!

"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation." Romans 5:6-11

"So, Christ died for the ungodly... God shows his love for us WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS... we have been justified by his blood... we were reconciled to God by the death of his son... we have received reconciliation."

Not a single word about faith resulting in living a perfect life, no sickness, disease, troubles, just get on the elevator and ride up to the top! Where are those words, Joanie? Not here at all, when you read the context!

Paul then continues with how sin came into the world, and how sin caused death. SIN caused death. So, we need to be healed from sin, not sickness. Our sin sickness is what has caused this Fallen world to be so rotten.

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—" Romans 5:12

I think JP must have missed this verse, which fits well into the context of Romans 5, and Romans, which is about justification or made right before God, although we are sinners. But now, we are finally up to JP's out of context verse, in which he interprets "much more" in verse 17, to mean we are free from all trials, tribulations, problems, sickness, and wait for it - death! I am not the only one that sees this in JPs devotion. Why would anyone even post a devotional that is so far from the truth?

"And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ."

So, we get this picture of sin, trespass being solved by the death of Jesus and the free gift being - wait for it.

RIGHTEOUSNESS!

Ok, I just read over the translation JP used to twist the Bible, and he is not using anything even remotely resembling any translation since 1611, to the present, let alone the Greek. Wow! What a sneak and a liar! Even the paraphrases don't say what he wrote.

"Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." HCSB

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ." KJV

"The verdict on that one sin was the death sentence." The Message
(note the word SIN)

"
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." NASB
"For if, by the transgression of the one man, death reigned through the one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ!" NET

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" NIV

"
For if by the averah (transgression) of the one, Mavet (Death) reigned supreme through the one Adam, how much more those, who receive the abundance of unmerited Chen v’Chesed Hashem (grace) and of the Matnat HaTzedakah (the gift of righteousness), shall reign in life through the one Adam, Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua." Orthodox Jewish Bible.

"εἰ γὰρ τῷ τοῦ ἑνὸς παραπτώματι ὁ θάνατος ἐβασίλευσεν διὰ τοῦ ἑνός, πολλῷ μᾶλλον οἱ τὴν περισσείαν τῆς χάριτος καὶ τῆς δωρεᾶς τῆς δικαιοσύνης λαμβάνοντες ἐν ζωῇ βασιλεύσουσιν διὰ τοῦ ἑνὸς Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ." Greek

ἑνὸς - one
παραπτώματι - transgression
τῆς δωρεᾶς - the gift
τῆς δικαιοσύνης - righteousness
λαμβάνοντες - receive
ἐν ζωῇ βασιλεύσουσιν διὰ τοῦ ἑνὸς Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ - reign in life through the one - Jesus Christ.

Was the issue a mere offence, as JP terms it? NO! It was transgression! Sin! Talk about playing down sin!

So, what is the gift? Righteousness! We don't need anything more! We reign in life by being righteous through Christ, and that includes, or perhaps especially in tribulation or affliction.

What a decrepit and disgusting way to take the entire reason Jesus died on the cross - for our sin, and make it into all about someone living a perfect life. What utter lies! What a doctrine devoid of humanity and truth!
 
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Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#15
You're not mistaken no one said we don't physically die. I think people tend to see what they want to see based on what is going on in their own lives. So it reflects on the way they see others too... And God.

I don't always agree with Charles Spurgeon and that is not a sin or against God. I don't always agree with the people who came on this thread who are angry. That is not a sin either that I don't agree with them.

I don't look at Charles Spurgeon or Joseph Prince when I want to see God. I have been learning to look at Jesus. Pastor Prince is more in line with what I see the Bible says about the Christian walk.

Each believer is on this pilgrim journey here on earth and we are ALL headed to heaven where Jesus is. In heaven., there will be no more trials and tribulations from the world., the flesh and the devil. The difference now is while we each are here., we each have to decide on how we are each going to chose to travel out our Christian lives.

I've learned through much trial and error I can take the elevator Jesus provided for me and get to the top without stress., sweat., fear., anxiety and lack. Others have chosen to take the stairs.., and are tired., angry., stressed., annoyed., sweaty and anxious. We each are going to get to the top no matter what because we accepted Jesus as our Savior.

I say to each person who posted here., how you chose to walk is totally up to you. We each have to make that choice based on our relationship with Christ. No one can make that choice for us.

People are free to prefer Charles Spurgeon over Joseph Prince. Doesn't hurt my feelings. I like them both.
We agree on something. It had absolutely nothing to do with the obvious people will die.

More that you keep thinking, as does Joe, that your choosing your way right to God, so he owes you.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,976
218
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#16
Amen! Keep exposing the lies and heresies of JM and JP Angela! :)
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,946
59
48
#17
I am so glad that JM keeps posting this heresy, so that those that are new believers and think that this guy is teaching God's tth can see that he is a heretic. He believes that you can be more righteous somehow by having more faith when our faith is counted as righteousness. Romans 4:1-4

“What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.....


23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him,24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 5:20-21 “Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”



Righteousness is through Christ Jesus so our righteousness unto salvation through Jesus Christ can not be improved upon or made better with more faith, that is where the wof people go wrong, they think that the faith of man is more powerful then the righteousness of Christ. By faith the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us and we are justified before the Father, there is no way to add to that.

I hope these herecies are posted so that they can beshown to be the herecies that they are.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
155
63
#18
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[TD][h=2]The Fresh Fruit of Patience[/h]by Judi[/TD]
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The fresh fruit of patience is exactly that: a fruit that grows out of an inside established in Truth. Patience is healthy. It’s nourishing, both to you and to those around you. It is not difficult and it is not something that comes from surviving difficult situations. In fact, you can endure numerous challenging trials and realize your patience is eroding rather than developing. Some believe God puts us through various situations in order to teach us to have certain qualities like patience. I think that is backwards. Jesus came to give us something we did not already have. He gave us the Holy Spirit (and as a result, all the fruit of the Spirit) to enable us to thrive and find fulfillment in this crazy, imperfect, and sometimes frustrating world. To do so, He knew we would need patience beyond ourselves.
Patience flows out of knowing the Truth about God’s goodness and His unlimited love for you. If you believe things that aren't true, your ability to operate in patience will be limited. You will think you are threatened when others disagree with you. Frustration will be your normal. You will find that life is overwhelming you rather than you overcoming it. If, for example, you believe God is only happy with you when you behave well or have the right theology or the right politics, the patience you extend towards yourself and others will be limited in direct correlation to that belief. Truly, the supernatural fruit of patience can only grow out of an unlimited supply of God’s love for you.

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This is a good explanation of how we as believers can all "take the elevator" sort of speak instead of trying to do the Christian life to the best of our human ability. I like how Judi put it here.,

Some believe God puts us through various situations in order to teach us to have certain qualities like patience. I think that is backwards. Jesus came to give us something we did not already have. He gave us the Holy Spirit (and as a result, all the fruit of the Spirit) to enable us to thrive and find fulfillment in this crazy, imperfect, and sometimes frustrating world. To do so, He knew we would need patience beyond ourselves.


I love that explanation because in order to live the Christian life now., we have something we never had before., a new heart and the Holy Spirit. That is why when we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of our flesh.
That cannot be done in the flesh. As the other thread discussed concerning our new hearts. I concur with Judi on this 100%.

My analogy about the elevator is that when we walk in the spirit we can do all these things without stress., sweat, frustration or lack because in Christ we have been given all things pertaining to life and Godliness. We "walk it out" Walking out who we are in the new creation in Christ is the daily walk of a Christian. But as Judi here says., it's done in the "new and living way" Not according to the flesh., but according to the spirit.

And the things we used to find difficult to near impossible in and through our flesh., can be done because I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil.4:13 I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self sufficient in Christ's sufficiency.) This is not done through the flesh... the power to do this is found only in the spirit.

Amen!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,897
412
83
#19
There are VOLUMES of passages that speak about OUR happiness or delight in the Lord, but I couldn't find any that speaks about God's happiness in or with us.

I seem to remember where Jesus sings with and is happy with the resurrected saints somewhere in the Old Testament, but God's love for us shouldn't be confused with God being "happy" with us.

I can and will, always love my boys, but there are many times I'm not happy with them. Please don't confuse the two.

OUR focus should be on Him. Beyond knowing and accepting His Love, I'm not sure we should be speaking for how God views us. Especially since Him being "happy" with us isn't in Scripture.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
155
63
#20
There are VOLUMES of passages that speak about OUR happiness or delight in the Lord, but I couldn't find any that speaks about God's happiness in or with us.

I seem to remember where Jesus sings with and is happy with the resurrected saints somewhere in the Old Testament, but God's love for us shouldn't be confused with God being "happy" with us.

I can and will, always love my boys, but there are many times I'm not happy with them. Please don't confuse the two.

OUR focus should be on Him. Beyond knowing and accepting His Love, I'm not sure we should be speaking for how God views us. Especially since Him being "happy" with us isn't in Scripture.

Since you have sons PennEd this article should speak to you as it did me just the other day. I have 2 grown and married sons now. I'm amazed at how "perspective" matters. Being parents helps us understand in some way how God loves us unconditionally. How His heart is for us and not against us. Consider the following perspective;




[h=1]God Believes in You![/h]

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Last night I caught my five-year-old son reading in bed when he should’ve been sleeping. I asked him to give me the book and he did, albeit reluctantly. I reminded him that it was late and he needed to go to sleep because he had school in the morning. Then I put his book at the end of his bed and turned to leave.


Luke couldn’t believe his luck. “Haha – I can get that book when you go!” he said with a wicked grin.


“I know you can, but I hope you won’t. It’s time to sleep. Good night, son.”


I closed the door and waited outside for a minute. Then I opened the door a crack to see if he had caved into temptation. He hadn’t. His head was still on the pillow and the book was untouched.

“Attaboy,” I said to myself.

The single most astonishing discovery in the gospel is that Almighty God, the Maker of Heaven and Earth, has faith in us. He trusts us. He gives us the freedom to choose, encourages us to “Choose life,” and then lets us decide.


This explains the tree.


Faith and love in the Garden of Eden


The forbidden tree was not an obedience test
, as in, fail the test and God will punish you. The forbidden tree was an opportunity to trust God. Tragically, we didn’t and we paid a price.


But God, good Father that he is, didn’t wash his hands of us. He didn’t say, “What a bunch of screw-ups. They’re no kids of mine.” Instead, he made things right, indeed, even better than before, because he still believes in us, he still thinks the best of us, and he longs for us to trust him back.


Is this not the greatest untold story of human history?


Think about it. In the beginning God makes a planet – perfect in every way – and then he gives his beautiful, shiny planet to us to look after:


The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to man. (Psalms 115:16)


You might say it was a reckless gamble, but I say it was an audacious act of love and trust, like when a father hands his daughter the keys to his Shelby Mustang and says, “Go have some fun!”

What is man that you are mindful of him? … You made him ruler over the works of your hands. (Psalms 8:4,6)

God gave us the car-keys to planet earth and said, “Go have fun!” True, we responded by crashing the car. But don’t miss the bigger point, which is this: Knowing what we would do, and knowing how much it would cost him to repair the damage, God went ahead and did it anyway. Why? Because he loves us and believes in us and hopes that one day we will stop running and come home.


“God believes in you!”


You won’t hear this message from manmade religion. Instead you will be asked, “Do you believe in God?” And if you hesitate to answer, religion will try to manipulate you with carrots and sticks. “If you believe, you’ll be blessed. If you don’t, you’ll burn!”


But this is not love. Love makes no threats. “Love doesn’t force itself on others” (1 Cor. 13:5, MSG). And this is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. “You did not choose me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).


A back-to-front gospel says, “Believe in God or pay the price.” But the gospel of grace declares, “God believes in you.” This is the stunning revelation that sets us free from the prison of loneliness and distrust.


Last night it would’ve been the easiest thing for me to take my boy’s book by force and put it where he couldn’t reach it. I could coerce him into doing the right thing because I’m stronger than him. And if he were a strapping teenager I could control him through carrots and sticks. I could make him do what I wanted by making threats and saying things like, “Under my roof, you’ll do what I say!”


But what kind of father would I be if I did that? And what kind of son would he be? He wouldn’t be a son but a slave. And since we were not made to be slaves he’d eventually run away.


I don’t want to relate to my son through power or the fear of punishment. I want to relate to him through love. And how do I do that? By giving him freedom to resist me, and then loving him no matter what.


It’s the same with our heavenly Father.


God is stronger than you or I and it would be the easiest thing in the world for him to make us do whatever he liked. It would be no trouble at all. But that’s not how love works. Love doesn’t seek to control or coerce. Love yields, and the greater the Yielder, the greater the love.


“God longs for you!”


This is the surprising announcement of the gospel. Despite all our mistakes and foolishness, our Father holds nothing against us but waits by the gate for us to come home so he can clothe us and throw a party that is so outrageously good fun that religious kill-joys are scandalized by it.


Perhaps you’ve heard the old joke about the nun and the atheist. The atheist says, “I don’t believe in God,” and the nun replies, “But God believes in you.” This is no joke! This is the gospel truth that penetrates the unbelieving heart. God isn’t shaking his fist at you. He loves you and wants to be with you.


As a parent, my greatest joy comes from experiencing the fearless and trusting love of my children. When Luke gave me his book last night, he was saying, “Daddy, I love reading, but I love you more and I trust your judgment.” It melted my heart! But here’s the thing: Luke would never trust me if I didn’t trust him first.


Again, it’s the same with our heavenly Father. We love because he first loved us, and we trust because he first trusted us. See the sequence? God acts; we respond.


The reason some people have trouble trusting is because they don’t see God with outstretched arms but with clenched fists. Religion has taught them to fear his punishment. Such folk need to hear the good news of his grace. They need to hear how much their Daddy loves them and wants nothing but the best for them.


Everything that God has ever done testifies to his love for us
. The Garden, the tree, the cross – he did it all because he loves us and believes in us and is not willing that any of us should perish. His enduring hope is that we will stop doubting his intentions and trust him back.


And when that happens – when we stand firm in the confidence of our Father’s love – life will really begin!

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