How old is our creation really?

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Skovand

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While scientism can make up whatever rules it wants, the same is not true with legitimate science. Every discipline of science is based upon principles which are fixed and unalterable by which the universe is governed and regulated. Principles are not made up by man but are formed by the precepts found in nature which establish their validity and demonstrate their immutability. While zoological taxonomy is derived from the principle revealed in the scriptures that identifies and separates the different kinds of living creatures, the question is whether it holds true to the precepts upon which it is founded upon.

While the tiger genome sequence shows 95.6% similarity to the domestic cat while human and gorilla have 94.8% similarity the instructions regarding the validity of a precept is that it isn't judged according to appearance but according to righteous judgment.

Thus, that data is interesting and useful, it is not relevant in determining the Order. Since the the the tiger and cat both contain 38 chromosomes it would be reasonable to include both under one Order however since primates have 48 chromosomes and the human has 46 chromosomes then this would be in order,

In addition, the second precept for determining the Order is cell fusion. If the species within an Order is incapable of procreating with those within it one has to question the likelihood of their being any lineage between members of that Order. Cell fusion should be possible within the taxological Order even if chance of cell fusion occurring naturally is problematic.

Extensive efforts to produce cell fusion between a human gamete and a primate gamete were attempted by scientist, dating as far back as the 1920's, yet one US scientist is claimed to have achieved cell fusion and produced a viable genome. There are a number of reported cases but not any reported evidence to support the claims.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...imp-hybrid-100-years-ago-gallup-yerkes-oliver
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=rFgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6991,3347287&hl=en

While it obvious based upon those two precepts that man shouldn't be in the same Order as primates, yet if scientists lack the ability to use complex tools like the principle then that makes one consider what genus is behind the pulpits. I bet you thought I was going to say primates didn't you? Nah, helpmates.

Maybe this analogy might help, while the chocolates in the box might not be the same, the size and number of slots in the box remains the same. That is why it is called a box of chocolates with 46ps.
Nothing you shared is even from a credible source lol.

Neanderthals were humans , Homo neanderthalensis.

We’re they humans or were they highly intelligent apes that used tools, language, and created art? If they were humans why do they have different chromosomes than us, the H. Sapiens?
 

bojack

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Nothing you shared is even from a credible source lol.

Neanderthals were humans , Homo neanderthalensis.

We’re they humans or were they highly intelligent apes that used tools, language, and created art? If they were humans why do they have different chromosomes than us, the H. Sapiens?


 

bojack

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Marco Polo account in China

I remember seeing these photos a while back and the first thing that caught my attention was that the 1rst photo the men looked much more lean and fit , the second photo looked like out of shape week end re-enactors .. jus sayin

 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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You got to love the scientific explanation for the pygmies.

Various theories have been proposed to explain the short stature of pygmies. Some studies suggest that it could be related to adaptation to low ultraviolet light levels in rainforests. This might mean that relatively little vitamin D can be made in human skin, thereby limiting calcium uptake from the diet for bone growth and maintenance, and leading to the evolution of the small skeletal size.

I guess when someone has their head up their onus, it is kinda hard to look around.



I guess it was vitamin D deficiency.


Do I need to say it?



Of course they attempt to explain it away as a birth defect since it sorta blows that one male and female doctrine out of the water.

And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. 2 Sam 21:20
 

bojack

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Dec 16, 2019
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You got to love the scientific explanation for the pygmies.

Various theories have been proposed to explain the short stature of pygmies. Some studies suggest that it could be related to adaptation to low ultraviolet light levels in rainforests. This might mean that relatively little vitamin D can be made in human skin, thereby limiting calcium uptake from the diet for bone growth and maintenance, and leading to the evolution of the small skeletal size.

I guess when someone has their head up their onus, it is kinda hard to look around.



I guess it was vitamin D deficiency.


Do I need to say it?



Of course they attempt to explain it away as a birth defect since it sorta blows that one male and female doctrine out of the water.

And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. 2 Sam 21:20
Those 6 fingers could have been one of the DNA triggers already programmed in I had mentioned and two sets of teeth too .. We all have two sets but when 10-12' giants lived pre-flood and for hundreds of years it's considerable that they lost their first ''baby'' set after 3-4 hundred years lol ..
I had a pretty blond music teacher in grammar school who had 6 fingers on each hand , she showed us first day and we never thought about it again that I can remember . I do remember how pretty she was ..
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
Do some research on what I posted and the link that I posted. The universe is expanding around a centroid and that centroid is the milky way galaxy.
How have they measured this? Help me in this research. Because you must calclulate the center of this very galaxy first and from that you must measure to the edges of this universe.
Good luck on that lol
Don’t worry about my research. ;)
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
For me nothing in genesis 1-2 is relevant to science. It’s there for only theological purposes setting up future patterns for the Jewish people. It’s not scientifically focused at all. “Let their be” is not the same as the Big Bang. Moses was setting up the Bible with the purpose that they were Gods chosen people and revealing repeating patterns trough a Jewish creation mythos.

Humans are primates. That’s why when we look at other primates we see such similar features. Genetically, our dna is way more similar to a chimpanzee who diverged from a common ancestor 8,000,000 years ago. It’s why our DNA is a lot more similar to them than to a raccoon. Our genetics are more similar to a raccoon than to a fish. The six days of different creation are not literally six days or even time periods. They have nothing to do with anything even remotely scientific but are linked strictly to the setting up of the week to set up the sabbath.
Our DNA is partly similair to fruitflies and bananas too?
Not that much of our DNA is similair to chimpansees. These scientists declared most of our DNA junk but it’s not junk because they don’t understand it.
There is one protein in our DNA very similair to that of chimpansees. The aminoacids in that protein sequence much a like the chimps. But one protein is not “most of our DNA”. It is very very very little.
 
F

Fundamental

Guest
The biggest difference is not the supernatural. I believe in the supernatural that defies laws of science.

The biggest issue is contextual analysis.
Humans know too little and explore too much in their ignorance. Leading up to mass destruction again and again.
Our very own ocean is a mystery, we got liquid oceans on moons but send rovers to a death planet Mars looking for life.

Humanity is a Monty Python script.
 

Skovand

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So you don't consider the International Congress of Zoology is credible source, so what is your source?
Im not sure what you’re trying to share? You quoted my question about neanderthals with pictures of people. Those people are not neanderthals. Those men will have the same number of chromosomes as us while all Neanderthals had different ones. Yet they were able to hybridize with sapiens. Much like horses and zebras.
 

Skovand

Active member
Aug 17, 2020
359
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Southeastern USA
Humans know too little and explore too much in their ignorance. Leading up to mass destruction again and again.
Our very own ocean is a mystery, we got liquid oceans on moons but send rovers to a death planet Mars looking for life.

Humanity is a Monty Python script.
We are not looking for current life as much as looking for fossilized life on Mars. We also have a pretty good understanding of many of the fauna extinctions. The problem arises because of debates on which one of the several things caused one another. Was the asian volcanoes exploding ash throughout the world the cause of it or was it how a large rock from space smashed into earth at this time and ect...
 

Skovand

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Aug 17, 2020
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First, ancient knowledge got along just fine without cell phones, TV, Piggly Wiggly grocery stores and such, you can hardly think for yourself .. Today you won't survive 2 weeks with out them and are totally dependent ..

? Paul said what ? And all people were still together until the tower of babel .. Do you realize how short a time America was resettled to get to now ? Yet instead of overpopulation, earth can still hold and sustain about 70 billion people comfortably ..

Earth can definitely not hold
A population of 70 billions just fine. We are only at 7 billion now at best and it’s causing a lot of problems.

I grew up without internet just fine. I got my first smartphone in 2014 in a 20s. I hike over 40 miles a week easily and sometimes almost double that. I go camping to remote islands for weeks at a time without any electricity. In my county I can identify over 200 edible plants and mushrooms. Not that any of that matters to what I’m talking about. But you brought it up first for some reason.
 

Skovand

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So you don't consider the International Congress of Zoology is credible source, so what is your source?
You did not quote them though. You quoted something called science alert and a google image of some newspaper.

Credible sources are scientific journals if it’s a concept that’s not well known or highly debated.
 

Lookupnotback

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Sep 26, 2020
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The question is valid and need further investigation.

If we read the Bible carefully we will find that time is part of the creation.

God created time, so why would God only started with His creation 10 000 years ago? Because He is outside of time and it doesn't actually matter to Him. It is like asking the strongest man in the universe why he is doing one finger pushups... because he can :)

Science can do accurate carbon dating for the last +-10 000 years but older than that is all guess work and they admit it.

The reason why I do belief earth is not older than 6000 years is because of the cycles explained to us in God's word. He is clear that there is order in His creation. A little study on this subject goes a long way.
I agree, sorta like scientific circular reasoning :giggle:
why is it they refuse to even discuss that the fossil record is that of a cataclysmic event where the most fragile forms are taken out 1st and then upwards towards heavier boned and sinking creatures, to those that bloat and fall into the silt as it is continually settling and then the ones on mass placed here and there around the world by just the shear force of the waters and mud flows. Toss in the fact that nature feeds on carcasses and so fossils are not formed in the 1st place if not buried by cataclysm? Blind faith they have or minds turned off and just accepting others ideals out of laziness?
 

Skovand

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Aug 17, 2020
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why is it they refuse to even discuss that the fossil record is that of a cataclysmic event where the most fragile forms are taken out 1st and then upwards towards heavier boned and sinking creatures, to those that bloat and fall into the silt as it is continually settling and then the ones on mass placed here and there around the world by just the shear force of the waters and mud flows. Toss in the fact that nature feeds on carcasses and so fossils are not formed in the 1st place if not buried by cataclysm? Blind faith they have or minds turned off and just accepting others ideals out of laziness?

The issue though is that in each geological layer we see different sizes and masses. It’s not just large creatures at the top or bottom, but small ones and large ones ranging from flora and fauna.

It’s also the issue that sediments are not based on weight either. We find different layers with different chemical compositions.

We also find fossils in a wide range of environments. We find fossils that were created by flooding. We find fossils created by volcanic ash. We find fossils of animals they feel through ice and froze. We find fossils underwater from where something like a storm stirring up sediments. We find fossils from animals trapped in saps and amber. We find fossils of animals that feel into tar pits. We find fossils of animals covered by mudslides.

The other issue is the morphology of fossils. When we go to the earliest fossils we only microorganisms we then only find plants. We then find insects. We also find these things throughout every layer but in the earliest layers it’s less diverse. But we do still often find giant extinct club mosses, ferns and so on.

We can trace the primate family. We can go back to where all primates we’re walking on all fours. We can then find the start of fossils with differently shaped knees and ankles and rib cages. We can then start to find bipedal ones that become humans over millions from years. We then begin to find ages where tools and burials start. We don’t find mammals on geological time era where there are just amphibians. We don’t ever find T. rex fossilized next to humans. We never find evidence of fossilized tool markings on T. rex and so on. But we find different smaller and larger mammals and plants there.

The fossil record and geological eras are not depressed by species size and mass but morphology.
 

bojack

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Im not sure what you’re trying to share? You quoted my question about neanderthals with pictures of people. Those people are not neanderthals. Those men will have the same number of chromosomes as us while all Neanderthals had different ones. Yet they were able to hybridize with sapiens. Much like horses and zebras.
They are either are either man or they are ape, there is no half ape half man .. God used a similar design for plants and animals so we'd have something tasty and nourishing to eat ..
 

Skovand

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They are either are either man or they are ape, there is no half ape half man .. God used a similar design for plants and animals so we'd have something tasty and nourishing to eat ..
I agree. There is no half and half intermediate species in that sense. There is 99.99% a and 99.99%b and 99.99%c and 99.99%d of the same species all having offspring together creating 99.98a and 00.01b and so on.

My point is that Neanderthals, Sapiens and Denisovan are all humans. They are all equally human, but different species. They all belong to the same genus Homo. All humans belong to the tribe Hominini along with the genus Pan which includes chimpanzees. We see this in the fossil record by tracing morphological changes and through genetics.
 

bojack

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Dec 16, 2019
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Earth can definitely not hold
A population of 70 billions just fine. We are only at 7 billion now at best and it’s causing a lot of problems.

I grew up without internet just fine. I got my first smartphone in 2014 in a 20s. I hike over 40 miles a week easily and sometimes almost double that. I go camping to remote islands for weeks at a time without any electricity. In my county I can identify over 200 edible plants and mushrooms. Not that any of that matters to what I’m talking about. But you brought it up first for some reason.
That's pretty awesome .. I worked on a commercial fishing boat one year but I wouldn't last 2 weeks .. I have an uncle who lives off the land and he can't read or write .. But he has knowledge to farm, is very humble and thankful, grows/cans his food, slaughters animals and catches his fish and where to get them, he's uneducated to the world standards but has a lifetime of self reliance .. In his county there may be a couple hundred individuals that can live self sufficient off the grid if the power went off tomorrow ..
 

bojack

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I agree. There is no half and half intermediate species in that sense. There is 99.99% a and 99.99%b and 99.99%c and 99.99%d of the same species all having offspring together creating 99.98a and 00.01b and so on.

My point is that Neanderthals, Sapiens and Denisovan are all humans. They are all equally human, but different species. They all belong to the same genus Homo. All humans belong to the tribe Hominini along with the genus Pan which includes chimpanzees. We see this in the fossil record by tracing morphological changes and through genetics.
I understand what you're saying, I'm saying there is one same race and I quoted those pictures to say I could find a bus load of people in the closest city that look as much ''Neanderthal'' as it gets .. There are no Neanderthals, they are either man or ape and an ape is a separate creation from man .. I am not an ape or evolved from apes , read Genesis 1 and believe it if you want a clue .. And science confirms it too ...