How old is our creation really?

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mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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Then you should see the broader picture and the entire context of where this topic is evolving to ;)
The Bible does teach of a young creation. And it teaches an entire different story then what the old model is trying to teach us.
The old model says hydrogen and helium exploded and formed all matter and space. The Bible says God spoke it into being.

If we would create a matrix where our virtual programs or physical AI becomes self aware, we also “spoke” that into existence.
We have been placed on this earth by instant events. There were gradual changes terrascaping this earth, but there were no gradual changes in creating life. Fish, birds, mammals, humans, fall, predators, death. It was not so gradual but abrupt changes reshaping the biology of this earth.
As I did not address any of that, I am still perplexed by your comment.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,511
254
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It does say, you're the one saying God is a liar ..


It is all in your face .. How is a dead almond stick that buds , flowers, produces ripe olives sometime during overnite and told that it would happen to someone who believes God is not relevant to creation , you're nuts !!! The rod was dead and it takes years for an almond tree to mature and began producing almonds to begin with, but a dead tree ? You tell me, can a dead anything produce ? ... You're nuts if you can't make the connection .. God called and spoke the natural creation into being from the supernatural existence And you're blind and faithless if you refuse see supernatural creation .. Please take your red grading pencil then mark all the scripture you grade untrue by your standards then throw your worthless bible in the trash if it has even one red mark ..

Here's another question . Why did Jesus speak in parables to the people sometimes ? Because some truths require keys and must me revealed in spirit by Spirit .. And that's why you see evidence like soft dino tissue right in your face but you can't face it , you love your lies .. Your business, but why try to convince your unbiblical secular beliefs among Christians ? Are you needing to impress and commit spiritual adultery with young Christians, are you wanting to shipwreck their faith when you can't even answer all the questions yourself .. You ain't God but you could hear God if you had ears to hear . You don't even question your gods
Psalm 74 ?, maybe you need to read it yourself ''a few hundred times''
And you must seek if you want to find .. 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Sorry but I cannot see how that relates to what I said.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,511
254
83
Then you should see the broader picture and the entire context of where this topic is evolving to ;)
The Bible does teach of a young creation. And it teaches an entire different story then what the old model is trying to teach us.
The old model says hydrogen and helium exploded and formed all matter and space. The Bible says God spoke it into being.

If we would create a matrix where our virtual programs or physical AI becomes self aware, we also “spoke” that into existence.
We have been placed on this earth by instant events. There were gradual changes terrascaping this earth, but there were no gradual changes in creating life. Fish, birds, mammals, humans, fall, predators, death. It was not so gradual but abrupt changes reshaping the biology of this earth.
And how does that relate to what I said?
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
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The fact is we don't know. It says in Genesis that God created the heavens and the earth and it was without form and void. Nowhere does it say how long it was without form and void. It could have been a year, 10 years, 100 years, a 1,000 years. All we can do is say that from Adam and Eve it is so many years old.
Then the question remains: why would God take eons? If He speaks something into being, it’s there very instant. It lasts eons but when spoken it’s very instant.
We as humans are not that old either. If the evolutionairy model is wrong we should really start asking where we truly came from.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,511
254
83
Then the question remains: why would God take eons? If He speaks something into being, it’s there very instant. It lasts eons but when spoken it’s very instant.
We as humans are not that old either. If the evolutionairy model is wrong we should really start asking where we truly came from.
Then the question remains: why would God take eons? If He speaks something into being, it’s there very instant. It lasts eons but when spoken it’s very instant.
We as humans are not that old either. If the evolutionairy model is wrong we should really start asking where we truly came from.
Then the question remains: why would God take eons? If He speaks something into being, it’s there very instant. It lasts eons but when spoken it’s very instant.
We as humans are not that old either. If the evolutionairy model is wrong we should really start asking where we truly came from.
Still don't know where the connection is to what I said.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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Still don't know where the connection is to what I said.
You said we don’t know how old this creation is and I replied why would it take billions of years for God to create a human in His image?
If you still don’t understand it, this topic is beyond your comprehention. My excuses if this comes out blunt.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,511
254
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You said we don’t know how old this creation is and I replied why would it take billions of years for God to create a human in His image?
If you still don’t understand it, this topic is beyond your comprehention. My excuses if this comes out blunt.
I never said anything about God creating a human in his image taking billions of years.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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I never said anything about God creating a human in his image taking billions of years.
I said that!!! You said we don’t know how old creation is and I got deeper into that.
But it’s ok. I have no time to nuanciate one liners.
Have a pleasant day.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,511
254
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I said that!!! You said we don’t know how old creation is and I got deeper into that.
But it’s ok. I have no time to nuanciate one liners.
Have a pleasant day.
"Nuanciate" I did not know a messenger was a one-liner.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
715
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Why? Because that’s what it’s based off of for us lol.
But you don't believe Gen 1-11 is literal .... but no, what was given for the days were not the sun and moon...
 

Skovand

Active member
Aug 17, 2020
359
54
28
Southeastern USA
But you don't believe Gen 1-11 is literal .... but no, what was given for the days were not the sun and moon...

Obviously I don’t and that’s what I said. Part of the evidence is that it uses a 24 hour day model before their is even a 24 hour day. Before there is even a sun.

If you take it literal then this means you believe this.

God hovered above a ball of water that was not frozen and was already there before anything was created. It never says he created it, and so this water was there forever before the sun was around and was still in its liquid form. He then created everything in 24 hour segments before there was even a sun for half of it. He made angiosperms before conifers. You get to man. He creates a pile of mud , a golem just like in many Mesopotamian tales, and breathes life into it ( apparently this spiritual being still has a mouth, lungs, and nostrils ). This golem comes alive on the sixth day and god brings every animal in existence ( millions and millions and millions of them ) before Adam to see which one would be a good mate for him and turns out none of them works and so God cuts them man in half and the other half becomes a woman. Despite being immortal, they still eat from a tree that gives immortal life and despite being immortal they still eat food. Then a talking snake tricks them. Then more invisible flying beings comes down to the flat earth that the sun revolves around (not a spherical earth rotating around the sun) and sleeps with the woman ( or probably rapes them all) and then at some point God opens up the space dome protecting the flat earth and covers it with miles and miles of water. Then after this, everyone commits incest for the second time and are amazing that now light is refracted as rainbows unlike before. While all of this happening, apparently there is a species of fire breathing multi headed sea dragons in the ocean and one is Godzilla sized that God battles and throw it’s corpse across the earth. Then you get all the way to modern us and we live on a flat earth protecting us from space water by a dome and there is no science to weather. God makes it rain or makes it change season. It takes God to do it because we are the center of the universe and the sun moves around us.
 

Skovand

Active member
Aug 17, 2020
359
54
28
Southeastern USA
As stated before I mentioned the idea that I may have to stop responding. I now know for sure I have to stop. I would be a full to continue to try to help y’all understand the basics of all science and how to understand textual analysis and literary writing styles. I thought as the conversation went further, some kind of light would go off in someone’s head but it’s getting darker and emptier.

So the best thing I can do with my time is simply keep creating posts and linking it to scholars and scientific journals. Then I’ll debate a bit on those specific posts with a few people and then ignore it. My goal is not to convince the few stuck i their 1300s scientific views but provide a way for others who want to seek the truth a doorway to finding those that will help. I’m thankful that so far 8 people have reached out to me on BL from this site who read these forums because they believe that’s what true as well.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
715
125
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Obviously I don’t and that’s what I said. Part of the evidence is that it uses a 24 hour day model before their is even a 24 hour day. Before there is even a sun.
You might work on your reading comprehension skills since the evening and the morning was used as model, not a 24 hour day. However, your inability to form any cognitive association between the advent of the visible light (morning) shined in the darkness (evening) tends to reveal your acknowledgement as you stated "you would think that some kind of light would go off in someone’s head but it’s getting darker and emptier." You can still have hope. I was going to say something but since you looked inside yourself to find the kingdom of God at least you still have hope after examining yourself . Don't lose hope,

And yet you claim to comprehend how they measured 9 billions years before the solar system used to measure a year ever came into existence. :LOL: And when you look at all those galaxy's and other places they can see light years away just remember that they are not photographs but artistic impressions based upon their interpretation of the data. :ROFL:
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
998
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Exactly. Just like those, the story of genesis 1-11 is clearly wrote mythologically. So we can believe 100% of the story without thinking it’s 100% literal.
Good grief friend .. Humble yourself , pray and wait for understanding .. The Word is complete and true .. We are given all kinds of info in different ways .. Many accounts of the same situations told in different pov's and details .. We have 4 gospel personal witness testimonies all just as true and dependable , think of it as being ''in stereo'' for our benefit .. And just as true for each generation .. The Living Word .. Genesis 1 is crammed full of information most people just run right past and after more than 40 yrs I still get new revelation from it and often ..

John saw this same thing Daniel had prophesied a few hundred years earlier of events still only partially fulfilled so far .. Jesus spoke and warned of future events that relates and gives even more info to recognize as we watch ..
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
43
As stated before I mentioned the idea that I may have to stop responding. I now know for sure I have to stop. I would be a full to continue to try to help y’all understand the basics of all science and how to understand textual analysis and literary writing styles. I thought as the conversation went further, some kind of light would go off in someone’s head but it’s getting darker and emptier.

So the best thing I can do with my time is simply keep creating posts and linking it to scholars and scientific journals. Then I’ll debate a bit on those specific posts with a few people and then ignore it. My goal is not to convince the few stuck i their 1300s scientific views but provide a way for others who want to seek the truth a doorway to finding those that will help. I’m thankful that so far 8 people have reached out to me on BL from this site who read these forums because they believe that’s what true as well.

But you dont understand. You repeat and leave my arguments open digging deeper into it.
I did study the theory of evolution and had Bible study. Imho there is no in between.
There is also a difference in ’evolution‘ and the “theory of evolution‘.

Your replies on ignoring obvious arguments are not our but your ignorance. Mixing pseudoscience (evo by mutation) with real science doesn’t make it a really scientific proven. No matter how much peer reviewed it is.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
43
You might work on your reading comprehension skills since the evening and the morning was used as model, not a 24 hour day. However, your inability to form any cognitive association between the advent of the visible light (morning) shined in the darkness (evening) tends to reveal your acknowledgement as you stated "you would think that some kind of light would go off in someone’s head but it’s getting darker and emptier." You can still have hope. I was going to say something but since you looked inside yourself to find the kingdom of God at least you still have hope after examining yourself . Don't lose hope,

And yet you claim to comprehend how they measured 9 billions years before the solar system used to measure a year ever came into existence. :LOL: And when you look at all those galaxy's and other places they can see light years away just remember that they are not photographs but artistic impressions based upon their interpretation of the data. :ROFL:
Practicly each picture of space is photoshopped by image stacking. When we look at a picture of a galaxy far away, those are multpile pictures stacked as one.
Quite disappointing when watching through the lense yourself the first time. Our camera has longer exposures to light; catching more details.
They even have to arrange their mount and align it equatorial with the polar star. If your telescope/cameramount does not move a long with the earth you get blurry pictures. No autofocus which is obvious lol.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,278
2,464
113
As stated before I mentioned the idea that I may have to stop responding. I now know for sure I have to stop. I would be a full to continue to try to help y’all understand the basics of all science and how to understand textual analysis and literary writing styles. I thought as the conversation went further, some kind of light would go off in someone’s head but it’s getting darker and emptier.

So the best thing I can do with my time is simply keep creating posts and linking it to scholars and scientific journals. Then I’ll debate a bit on those specific posts with a few people and then ignore it. My goal is not to convince the few stuck i their 1300s scientific views but provide a way for others who want to seek the truth a doorway to finding those that will help. I’m thankful that so far 8 people have reached out to me on BL from this site who read these forums because they believe that’s what true as well.
I am sure you have to stop because with the facts hitting you on the bee-hind everyday it is overwhelming ;)
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
715
125
43
Practicly each picture of space is photoshopped by image stacking. When we look at a picture of a galaxy far away, those are multpile pictures stacked as one.
Let me see if I understand, are you saying that they are 'photographs' of the galaxies and not 'imagery" ?

Photograph: a picture or likeness obtained by photography [-]
Photography: the art or process of producing images by the action of radiant energy and especially light on a sensitive surface (such as film or an optical sensor) [-]
Photographic: 1: relating to, obtained by, or used in photography; 2: representing nature and human beings with the exactness of a photograph; 3: capable of retaining vivid impressions [-]

Imagery: pictorial images, as in works of art. [-]

It is like the question about the beginning, when God said let there be light and there was light, what did God see when he saw the light. However, the light he saw isn't the same light that we see which is the reason some can look up in the night sky and see the stars and never see the light.

 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
715
125
43
I am sure you have to stop because with the facts hitting you on the bee-hind everyday it is overwhelming ;)
Like a rolling stone; afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
998
113
Obviously I don’t and that’s what I said. Part of the evidence is that it uses a 24 hour day model before their is even a 24 hour day. Before there is even a sun.

If you take it literal then this means you believe this.

God hovered above a ball of water that was not frozen and was already there before anything was created. It never says he created it, and so this water was there forever before the sun was around and was still in its liquid form. He then created everything in 24 hour segments before there was even a sun for half of it. He made angiosperms before conifers. You get to man. He creates a pile of mud , a golem just like in many Mesopotamian tales, and breathes life into it ( apparently this spiritual being still has a mouth, lungs, and nostrils ). This golem comes alive on the sixth day and god brings every animal in existence ( millions and millions and millions of them ) before Adam to see which one would be a good mate for him and turns out none of them works and so God cuts them man in half and the other half becomes a woman. Despite being immortal, they still eat from a tree that gives immortal life and despite being immortal they still eat food. Then a talking snake tricks them. Then more invisible flying beings comes down to the flat earth that the sun revolves around (not a spherical earth rotating around the sun) and sleeps with the woman ( or probably rapes them all) and then at some point God opens up the space dome protecting the flat earth and covers it with miles and miles of water. Then after this, everyone commits incest for the second time and are amazing that now light is refracted as rainbows unlike before. While all of this happening, apparently there is a species of fire breathing multi headed sea dragons in the ocean and one is Godzilla sized that God battles and throw it’s corpse across the earth. Then you get all the way to modern us and we live on a flat earth protecting us from space water by a dome and there is no science to weather. God makes it rain or makes it change season. It takes God to do it because we are the center of the universe and the sun moves around us.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.