How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 5, 2021
96
20
8
I see more of a convergence of what God is doing with the gentiles/Israel than a strict separation. My take is the gentile church will be experiencing tribulation (persecution) up until she is removed. I see the "ark doors closing" now so to speak. The remnant church will be glorified and will help the Lord with a final harvest and not long after the woman of Rev. 12 (Israel) will flee into the wilderness. Then the catching away will occur after many turn to the Lord for salvation. The partial rapture theory I hold has a separate harpazo event for the 'overcomers' of the 144,000 of Israel who survive the great tribulation.[/QUOTE]



My time ran out for making an edit. I meant to express the last paragraph in the following way:

I see more of a convergence of what God is doing with the gentiles/Israel than a strict separation. My take is the gentile church will be experiencing tribulation (persecution) up until she is removed. I see the "ark doors closing" now so to speak. The remnant church will be glorified and will help the Lord with heart healing/deliverance in a final harvest. Then a rapture event will occur after many of turn to the Lord and are born again of His Spirit. Not long after this the woman of Rev. 12 (Israel) will flee into the wilderness. The partial rapture theory I hold has a separate catching away event for the 'overcomers' of the 144,000 of Israel who survive the great tribulation.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
306
83
YES, there will be people whom God will continue to call right up to the Coming of the Lord.

Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.” John 4:34-38

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


When we love and obey the Lord Jesus Christ we believe every word and above all -
we do not add or takeaway from His words.
Don't worry about adding or taking away,,we can't really do that any way.fall in love with him.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
3,798
1,126
113
Don't worry about adding or taking away,,we can't really do that any way.fall in love with him.
God is calling all who have ears to hear to repentance from "adding and taking away from His words"

If it were not possible to do He would never of warned us not to do it.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Revelation 22:18-19


Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Repentance toward God is required for Mercy, Truth, Life, Healing and the Holy Spirit
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,697
750
113
Sure. Tribulation Saints are those unbelievers who come to Christ during the Tribulation period.

Post scripture that shows anyone coming to Christ during the great tribulation. Good luck on that search.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
3,798
1,126
113
Tribulation saints my friend tribulation saints.......;)
Tribulation for the Saints started in the Garden in Genesis.

The LORD says: I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!”

And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 14

Repent from the error of pride that is in your heart to raise your words above God's words.
Pride that convinces you that you know better then Scripture.
Pride that made you start a thread on twisting Scripture.

Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
306
83
God is calling all who have ears to hear to repentance from "adding and taking away from His words"

If it were not possible to do He would never of warned us not to do it.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Revelation 22:18-19


Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Repentance toward God is required for Mercy, Truth, Life, Healing and the Holy Spirit
i still have not seen any to add or take away from his words,,,,Only those that are doing those things on there own.Right words cannot be stopped.Yea i have read all that i guess i'm trying to say something i cannot express with words.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
306
83
every Bible version I've ever read has something added or changed.I think people pick a version of the bible on the on the false premise that it of itself is the word.No you must be closer to god then that.The best of bibles are brilliantly imperfect i love that!I also hate that,,because many be hiding behind a bible rather then repenting.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
306
83
Post scripture that shows anyone coming to Christ during the great tribulation. Good luck on that search.
[Rev 7:14 KJV] 14 And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[Deu 4:30 KJV] vs 29 [When you seek me with all your heart and soul] When you are in tribulation, and all these things happen to you, [even] in the latter days, if you turn to me, and be obedient unto my voice; i will not for sake you.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
5,614
3,896
113
Sure. Tribulation Saints are those unbelievers who come to Christ during the Tribulation period.

With no one to witness to them, shepherd them or pray for them (church removed) and no Holy Spirit to enpower them from within, I can't see humans having the strength to stand up to the greatest surge of satanic power in human history and overcome it to the point of death.

That isn't the story Revelation tells.
The church is active right through the tribulation period. Her prayers & petitions are going up to the throne room of heaven. Her suffering & outcry is the catalyst for The Lord's vengeance on the prostitute. He is coming to deliver us from tribulation
not take us away before it starts.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113



With no one to witness to them, shepherd them or pray for them (church removed) and no Holy Spirit to enpower them from within, I can't see humans having the strength to stand up to the greatest surge of satanic power in human history and overcome it to the point of death.

That isn't the story Revelation tells.
The church is active right through the tribulation period. Her prayers & petitions are going up to the throne room of heaven. Her suffering & outcry is the catalyst for The Lord's vengeance on the prostitute. He is coming to deliver us from tribulation
not take us away before it starts.
There is evidence against all that.

Little to none for it.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
Tribulation for the Saints started in the Garden in Genesis.

The LORD says: I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!”

And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 14

Repent from the error of pride that is in your heart to raise your words above God's words.
Pride that convinces you that you know better then Scripture.
Pride that made you start a thread on twisting Scripture.

Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Yes things get twisted.

Kinda like not knowing the difference between tribulation promised the saints which most everyone acknowledges and the great tribulation Jesus referred to.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
every Bible version I've ever read has something added or changed.I think people pick a version of the bible on the on the false premise that it of itself is the word.No you must be closer to god then that.The best of bibles are brilliantly imperfect i love that!I also hate that,,because many be hiding behind a bible rather then repenting.
the dead sea scrolls put most of that to rest.

We have Gods word
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
[Rev 7:14 KJV] 14 And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[Deu 4:30 KJV] vs 29 [When you seek me with all your heart and soul] When you are in tribulation, and all these things happen to you, [even] in the latter days, if you turn to me, and be obedient unto my voice; i will not for sake you.
Yep.

Keep posting the word.

How do we know we are on the correct path?

Correct doctrine?

The Word.

Make em go against the word.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
3,798
1,126
113
i still have not seen any to add or take away from his words,,,,Only those that are doing those things on there own.Right words cannot be stopped.Yea i have read all that i guess i'm trying to say something i cannot express with words.
You must not be paying attention:



With no one to witness to them, shepherd them or pray for them (church removed) and no Holy Spirit to enpower them from within, I can't see humans having the strength to stand up to the greatest surge of satanic power in human history and overcome it to the point of death.

That isn't the story Revelation tells.
The church is active right through the tribulation period. Her prayers & petitions are going up to the throne room of heaven. Her suffering & outcry is the catalyst for The Lord's vengeance on the prostitute. He is coming to deliver us from tribulation
not take us away before it starts.
And even more GLORIOUS then ever before in Church History.

Matt 25: 1-13 = Those who love their Husband will be filled with HIM.

So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery;
but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.

There is only One Way that this takes Place and only for those who understand.

 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
3,798
1,126
113
Yes things get twisted.

Kinda like not knowing the difference between tribulation promised the saints which most everyone acknowledges and the great tribulation Jesus referred to.
What's your twist on this:

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
Also called the church.
Chuch = assembly

Lots of carnal believers in the "church"

1st corinthians unpacks that dynamic.

Note: the rapture is the gathering of the bride.

Note : NOBODY IN HERE IS EXPRESSING THAT DYNAMIC

I recieved that revelation many years ago.

That same revelation is a direct line into interpreting end times.

But nobody is catching on.

They ALL CENTER SOMEPLACE ELSE.

ANOTHER CENTER.

Once the bride/groom revelation comes....it changes EVERYTHING.


The parting words of God are the bride/groom/rapture/ with the echo of that same dynamic from heaven to earth.
Then the bride echos it back to heaven. Nonstop. That dynamic is what God ended the bible with.
( but nobody gets it).
...PLAIN BIZARRE!!!!!

Without that revelatory knowledge, we see anti bible statements.

But the word of God prevails THROUGH REVELATION BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
What's your twist on this:

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Amen
I am also pretrib rapture with the 5 foolish virgins coming later through martyrdom.
Keep reading and you will see the innumerable number. That had dirty robes and were murdered by the ac.
Dirty robes= foolish virgins. Paul called them carnal beievers. They did not pass the "worthyness" test Jesus laid down for the rapture.

Jesus laid down the worthyness test 3 or more times.

Great verses as usual.

Thanks
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
You must not be paying attention:


And even more GLORIOUS then ever before in Church History.

Matt 25: 1-13 = Those who love their Husband will be filled with HIM.

So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery;
but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.

There is only One Way that this takes Place and only for those who understand.
Amen

I am also pretrib rapture.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,347
2,529
113
I see more of a convergence of what God is doing with the gentiles/Israel than a strict separation. My take is the gentile church will be experiencing tribulation (persecution) up until she is removed. I see the "ark doors closing" now so to speak. The remnant church will be glorified and will help the Lord with a final harvest and not long after the woman of Rev. 12 (Israel) will flee into the wilderness. Then the catching away will occur after many turn to the Lord for salvation. The partial rapture theory I hold has a separate harpazo event for the 'overcomers' of the 144,000 of Israel who survive the great tribulation.
My time ran out for making an edit. I meant to express the last paragraph in the following way:
I see more of a convergence of what God is doing with the gentiles/Israel than a strict separation. My take is the gentile church will be experiencing tribulation (persecution) up until she is removed. I see the "ark doors closing" now so to speak. The remnant church will be glorified and will help the Lord with heart healing/deliverance in a final harvest. Then a rapture event will occur after many of turn to the Lord and are born again of His Spirit. Not long after this the woman of Rev. 12 (Israel) will flee into the wilderness. The partial rapture theory I hold has a separate catching away event for the 'overcomers' of the 144,000 of Israel who survive the great tribulation.


Yes....kinda
The partial rapture is vividly pictured in Mat 25. As well as mat 24.
Both noah and lot had ALL INLAWS left behind.
But Jesus said Only the worthy are raptured.

You are correct though that the 144k come in and are in heaven a little after mid trib.
They are first fruit jews.
That is rev 14 and following firstfruits gathering is ALWAYS MAIN HARVEST. Main harvest of rev 14 is jews by Jesus sitting on a cloud.