How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 9, 2021

So you either believe the "2W" are not resurrected from the dead at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" point in the chronology (as the Scripture shows); or you believe that ALL saints are resurrected at that same point in time that they are (...which you do not believe)... according to the way you are interpreting the phrase in 20:5b and v.6a ("the resurrection the FIRST [adjective; G4413]"... which you interpret to mean, "the FIRST time that any saints will have been resurrected").

Which also disregards the phrase in 1Cor15:23 "[re: resurrection] But EACH [a word meaning "of more than two"] in his OWN ORDER / RANK" (which word means there is an "ORDER / RANK" to it; not that there remains only ONE at a SINGULAR point in time).

Recall that the word for "FIRST [ADJECTIVE; G4413]" is the SAME Greek word translated as "chief" in 1 Timothy 1:15 "...sinners, of whom I am CHIEF [G4413; ADJECTIVE - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/1-15.htm ]"... which I'm sure you would acknowledge that Paul was not saying he was the "first" sinner IN TIME [/time-wise], right?? Think about it. = )

DavidTree · Nov 9, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

1.) No Resurrection of the Body of Christ/His Elect /His Saints until His Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18

2.) No Resurrection of the Body of Christ/His Elect/His Saints until the Fifth Seal is completed and we reach chapters 19 & 20.

3.) The Two Witnesses are on special assignment from the Lord and are not in Authority over His Coming and the Resurrection.

4.) Revelation chapters 19 & 20 is the Authority on the Lord's Coming with the Saints as specified in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

5.) When this occurs is only in the FATHER's Authority.

6.) Obey the Authority of God's words and "do not add to them or take away" - SEE - Revelation 22:18-19

7.) Six is the number of man - Stay in the Obedient #6 and you will have Rest in Truth

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 9, 2021

DavidTree said:

You've never explained why 1 Thessalonians 4:14's "[will God] bring WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" can possibly occur PRIOR TO the "caught up together with them" point in time (i.e. Rapture), which is [how] "so / in this manner shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord"... "how" that can be the case, in the way you're explaining it (when "Rapture / SNATCH" is the MEANS BY WHICH the "G4862 [UNIONed-with]" will occur!)

Because, recall, when the "dead in Christ" die individually, they [their spirits / souls] go to be "at home [G1736] with [G4314; NOT G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord" per 2 Corinthians 5:8, as we already covered earlier.

IOW, your viewpoint does not adequately *explain* these things.

(Whereas, the "pre-trib" viewpoint DOES adequately explain them... not that you've really "heard" the explanation properly... yet

)

[for the readers: see also "G4862 UNIONed-with" in Colossians 3:4 coupled with the word "appear [G5319]" (and the words "you also")]

DavidTree · Nov 9, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

All who were in Christ when they died are currently now with Christ, in Heaven, waiting for chapter 19 in Revelation to come with Christ for their Resurrection(First Resurrection) of their bodies that will be Transformed into His Glorious Likeness.

This takes PRECEDENT over the rapture/gathering of remaining Saints/Elect who are alive on earth at His Coming.

Dwell on this and pray earnestly for understanding - the Lord's ministry on earth was for 3.5 years.

Be willing to let go of pre-conceived/taught agendas/doctrines/teachings.

Allow the Holy Spirit to properly align the Scripture for you so that you may see as HE sees and knows.

God Bless You, Christ Keep You and the Holy Spirit fill You - Amen

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 9, 2021

^ "and so / thus / in this manner shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord"

(Rapture / Caught up / Snatched / harpazo'd [G726] ^ .... ; ... not via "death" of the believer

which instead is "at home [G1736] with [G4314] the Lord" 2Cor5:8 [their spirits / souls... i.e. "unclothed"... being apart from their bodies, for a time... UNTIL a certain point in time

)

Absolutely · Nov 10, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

You've never explained why 1 Thessalonians 4:14's "[will God] bring WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" can possibly occur PRIOR TO the "caught up together with them" point in time (i.e. Rapture), which is [how] "so / in this manner shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord"... "how" that can be the case, in the way you're explaining it (when "Rapture / SNATCH" is the MEANS BY WHICH the "G4862 [UNIONed-with]" will occur!)

Because, recall, when the "dead in Christ" die individually, they [their spirits / souls] go to be "at home [G1736] with [G4314; NOT G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord" per 2 Corinthians 5:8, as we already covered earlier.

IOW, your viewpoint does not adequately *explain* these things.

(Whereas, the "pre-trib" viewpoint DOES adequately explain them... not that you've really "heard" the explanation properly... yet

)

[for the readers: see also "G4862 UNIONed-with" in Colossians 3:4 coupled with the word "appear [G5319]" (and the words "you also")]

Are you referring to the erroneous postrib uturn? Where they do a uturn back to earth upon mounting riderless horses?

Absolutely · Nov 10, 2021

DavidTree said:

"""Be willing to let go of pre-conceived/taught agendas/doctrines/teachings"""

"""Be willing to let go of pre-pretrib verses/found in bible. The/clear biblical/teachings"""

There
I fixed your unfounded / false / erroneous/ statement.

DavidTree · Nov 10, 2021

Absolutely said:

Great laughter from this Brother - Thank You

But your RIGHT - be willing to let go of 'pre-trib' error that cannot be found in Scripture.

When you bring this error to the LORD and lay it at His Feet He will begin your healing so that you may see.

Does not the fact that absolutely no one has been able to bring forth even just one 'pre-trib' =Christ is coming for His Bride BEFORE the Resurrection.

How about just one verse that says 'there are Two Gospels, one for His Saints and one for the Tribulation Saints'.

Where are the verses that CLEARLY separate His Elect/His Saints from the Tribulation Saints.

These FAITHFUL tribulation Saints who "overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death" - sure get what's coming to them - don't they???

The shamefulness of pre-trib rapture

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 10, 2021

Absolutely said:

No.

I'm talking about this (like I've said in past posts):

"knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with [G4862 UNIONed-with] Jesus, and will present [future indicative; G3936] us with you." 2Cor4:14

The word in 1Th4:14 for "will bring" is G71 and can be translated as "will lead"... and the dead in Christ "shall rise first" so as to participate in this ^ [event] "also" = ) (that's not at the "post trib" point in the chronology)... meaning, the "will present [G3936]" thing (not to mention, the "G4862 - UNIONed-with" thing ^ , also).

DavidTree · Nov 10, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

That's RIGHT - God will bring with Jesus the spirits of the saints who are in Heaven now and Christ will LEAD them as HE Returns for His Second Coming.

Very good - now follow HIS Leading

peldom10 · Nov 10, 2021

I can't believe we have 125 pages of post of which half opposes a pre-trib rapture when scriptures clearly tells us there will be a pre trib rapture.
God must be looking at us with amazement ....at least.....and probably disappointment ......at our inability to comprehend. Without a doubt concern that those in opposition will ever understand His instructions for eternal salvation.

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 10, 2021

DavidTree said:

Nope.

The "G4862 UNIONed-WITH" ^ occurs by means of the "Rapture / Snatch / caught up" action... not prior to it, as you are suggesting... which means it involves their RESURRECTED AND GLORIFIED BODIES (which in your *explanation* does not acknowledge this point).

Do you know what (and where) the "WILL PRESENT [G3936]" speaks of?

"WILL PRESENT [G3936]" to what end/purpose?

In your post-trib rapture viewpoint, the Tares have already been "collected FIRST"... THEN (according to you) WE go UP[-to-the-clouds]-AND-THEN-DOWN-again. ZERO "PRESENT [G3936]" (with [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Jesus).

peldom10 · Nov 10, 2021

If it is the word....rapture...which man has added to bible wording to capture the Biblical meaning......then select your own word to represent the scripture use of........taking up...or....taken up.
I don't think God would be offended.

DavidTree · Nov 10, 2021

peldom10 said:

God is looking with amazement for pre-trib never came out of His mouth and you are unable to bring just one verse forward from Scripture.

Not even one..............amazing

peldom10 · Nov 10, 2021

DavidTree said:

You must like to be wrong........

.....Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come vpon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. - King James Version (1611) - View 1611 Bible Scan. 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that {hour} which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth...
.

DavidTree · Nov 10, 2021

peldom10 said:

rapture is not the issue - the lie 'pre-trib' is the error that God hates.

IT is impossible for there to be a 'pre-trib' rapture of His Elect since HE never said that.

Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Anyone who believes in the lie of 'pre-trib' rapture is deceived of their own volition.

DavidTree · Nov 10, 2021

peldom10 said:

Covered this already - better do a study on what it means to be "KEPT" by God in Christ - has nothing to do with rapture.

Read John ch 17 - the Lord details what it means to be KEPT by HIM

DavidTree · Nov 10, 2021

peldom10 said:

i apologize - i had you confused with TDW as your avatar are identical.

Please do a study in the NT on these words "Keep, Keeping, Kept" and you will understand what the Lord is saying to the Philadelphia church.

Also, please do not take offence a i cannot write long sentences or dialogue - i have to be short and quick - pain in hands

Absolutely · Nov 10, 2021

DavidTree said:

Keep you from.

Anybody can see that is the pretrib rapture.

Red flag for you is that your position will " keep you from" praying what Jesus said to pray

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 10, 2021

DavidTree said:

A "P" and a "T" are identical??

I'm beginning to detect your problem... --->

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How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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