How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

Keep you from.

Anybody can see that is the pretrib rapture.

Red flag for you is that your position will " keep you from" praying what Jesus said to pray

I am so glad that you mentioned 'Prayer'.

For the Lord never said He would rapture them did HE - Nope

The Lord did say how He would KEEP them in His Prayer - John 17

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

 

[DavidTree]

A "P" and a "T" are identical??

I'm beginning to detect your problem... ---><---

Big RED CIRCLE and yes, at a glance P and T are very close in structure/form

Now you SEE - lol - thank you for the fun, and yes i wear glasses

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Keep you from.

Both passages say "keep [you/them] from"...(Rev3:10 and Jn17:15)... that's why they think their argument is a good one.

It isn't.

Because Rev3:10 clearly states "keep you from THE HOUR OF" (i.e. from the TIME PERIOD being referenced [i.e. "the HOUR of the trial"]). John 17 isn't saying such a thing, nor making such a point... it's not talking about "the HOUR OF the trial"

 

[DavidTree]

Keep you from.

Anybody can see that is the pretrib rapture.

Red flag for you is that your position will " keep you from" praying what Jesus said to pray

Being Kept by God is not about a false pre-trib escapism.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

You need to study this and find out what is being said here in fullness.

 

[DavidTree]

Both passages say "keep [you/them] from"...(Rev3:10 and Jn17:15)... that's why they think their argument is a good one.

It isn't.

Because Rev3:10 clearly states "keep you from THE HOUR OF" (i.e. from the TIME PERIOD being referenced [i.e. "the HOUR of the trial"]). John 17 isn't saying such a thing.

The saints who qualify for the Blessing of the Philadelphia church are the Saints who will be alive/remaining unto His Coming.

It has nothing to do with a false pre-trib rapture which HE never spoke or promised to them or anyone.

To each and every Saint the Promise is the SAME - "I am Coming" = see 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24 and 2 Thess 2 and 1 John 2

 

[peldom10]

timed out ......

....a key word in the above reference is....the hour....(separating it from any other created hour)...and is significant in the interpretive process.

 

[peldom10]

The saints who qualify for the Blessing of the Philadelphia church are the Saints who will be alive/remaining unto His Coming.

It has nothing to do with a false pre-trib rapture which HE never spoke or promised to them or anyone.

To each and every Saint the Promise is the SAME - "I am Coming" = see 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24 and 2 Thess 2 and 1 John 2

wrong...continue if you wish.

 

[peldom10]

The saints who qualify for the Blessing of the Philadelphia church are the Saints who will be alive/remaining unto His Coming.

It has nothing to do with a false pre-trib rapture which HE never spoke or promised to them or anyone.

To each and every Saint the Promise is the SAME - "I am Coming" = see 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24 and 2 Thess 2 and 1 John 2

Oh please...where and when does the..."blessing of the Philadelphia church"..... occur? Please explain your use of that term...which is new in your responses.?

Also, ...what does the reference to......those dead in Christ will rise first and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they shall ascend into Heaven......mean?

You are just making your hole deeper.

You are without a doubt a ...new age religion type ...admit it...and that will explain a lot.

 

[DavidTree]

timed out ......

....a key word in the above reference is....the hour....(separating it from any other created hour)...and is significant in the interpretive process.

The Hour represents "the temptation that shall come upon the whole world".

Do you know what the temptation is?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

and 1 John 2

I assume you're talking about 1Jn2:28, which reads (in part), "so that when HE APPEARS [G5319] we might have boldness and not be ashamed before Him"

... but note what 1 Peter 5:4 says, "And when the chief Shepherd SHALL APPEAR [G5319], ye shall receive a crown / stephanon of glory that fadeth not away"... yet you are always claiming that "the dead in Christ" (who are presently "at home [G1736] with [G4314 (NOT "G4862 UNIONed-with" yet)] the Lord" ALREADY HAVE (as in, ARE WEARING *NOW* [in their "spirits / souls"]) "crowns / stephanos"...

... and you continually say this, just so you can ignore the fact of the ones wearing "crowns" in Rev4:4 (who are also the ones who say, in 5:9--BEFORE the SEALS are opened: when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE"--"hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY...") are already-glorified saints! (i.e. already having been raptured and already having stood before [G3936 ] the BEMA [for rewards])



.....

 

[peldom10]

Covered this already - better do a study on what it means to be "KEPT" by God in Christ - has nothing to do with rapture.

Read John ch 17 - the Lord details what it means to be KEPT by HIM

Neither one applies here.

i apologize - i had you confused with TDW as your avatar are identical.

Please do a study in the NT on these words "Keep, Keeping, Kept" and you will understand what the Lord is saying to the Philadelphia church.

Also, please do not take offence a i cannot write long sentences or dialogue - i have to be short and quick - pain in hands

Thanks...I am not offended.

Only time I get offended is when someone calls me...late for dinner. LOL

 

[DavidTree]

Oh please...where and when does the..."blessing of the Philadelphia church"..... occur? Please explain your use of that term...which is new in your responses.?

Also, ...what does the reference to......those dead in Christ will rise first and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they shall ascend into Heaven......mean?

You are just making your hole deeper.

You are without a doubt a ...new age religion type ...admit it...and that will explain a lot.

pre-trib is the hole that you can't get out of as long as you cling to th elie that is dragging you down.

Still waiting for just one verse that says Christ will pre-trib rapture saints before His Coming and before the Resurrection.

 

[peldom10]

The Hour represents "the temptation that shall come upon the whole world".

Do you know what the temptation is?

...the temptation...likewise is designated as special by the use of the word....the...setting it apart from all other temptation created.

Common sense.

 

[Galatians220]

Where is the scripture that expressly states the church will go through the Great Tribulation?

That question could actually go both ways and adds little to nothing to the conversation. One could just as easily ask you where in scripture does it expressly state that believers won't go through the Great Tribulation?

Scripture clearly states these two things: #1. that believers will be spared from God's wrath, & #2. that believers will face tribulation. However, how we are supposed to interpret that has been debated for generations.

If we are going to take the Bible at face value, then the Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath position is the most logical & rational.

 

[DavidTree]

I assume you're talking about 1Jn2:28, which reads (in part), "so that when HE APPEARS [G5319] we might have boldness and not be ashamed before Him"

... but note what 1 Peter 5:4 says, "And when the chief Shepherd SHALL APPEAR [G5319], ye shall receive a crown / stephanon of glory that fadeth not away"... yet you are always claiming that "the dead in Christ" (who are presently "at home [G1736] with [G4314 (NOT "G4862 UNIONed-with" yet)] the Lord" ALREADY HAVE (as in, ARE WEARING) "crowns / stephanos"...

... and you continually say this, just so you can ignore the fact of the ones wearing "crowns" in Rev4:4 (who are also the ones who say, in 5:9--BEFORE the SEALS are opened: when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE"--"hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY...") are already-glorified saints! (i.e. already having been raptured and already having stood before [G3936 ] the BEMA [for rewards])

.....

The loop holes you seek to create for the lie of pre-trib are indeed holes that hold no Life Giving Water.

"Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown."

If you fight against Christ - you are antichrist.

 

[DavidTree]

...the temptation...likewise is designated as special by the use of the word....the...setting it apart from all other temptation created.

Common sense.

Nope - try again.

 

[peldom10]

pre-trib is the hole that you can't get out of as long as you cling to th elie that is dragging you down.

Still waiting for just one verse that says Christ will pre-trib rapture saints before His Coming and before the Resurrection.

I would urge you to take a short course in interpretive language. Start with lexis-nexis, as a suggestion

 

[DavidTree]

I would urge you to take a short course in interpretive language. Start with lexis-nexis, as a suggestion

Your carnal exegesis is not approved by the Holy Spirit - i urge you to repent from believing a lie for carnal pleasure.

For there will be a time when they will not endure sound teaching, but according to the own desires, having an itching ear, they will gather around them teachers to suit themselves,

 

[Icedaisey]

That question could actually go both ways and adds little to nothing to the conversation. One could just as easily ask you where in scripture does it expressly state that believers won't go through the Great Tribulation?

Scripture clearly states these two things: #1. that believers will be spared from God's wrath, & #2. that believers will face tribulation. However, how we are supposed to interpret that has been debated for generations.

If we are going to take the Bible at face value, then the Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath position is the most logical & rational.

Regardless of your judgement, the question is what makes this entire thread possible. It is impossible to imagine it is not a question germane to the matter at hand, when so many people answer the question time and again by insisting the church will suffer the Tribulation.
Ergo, the rational perspective looks at those statements and posits the only natural question that is inferred by those statements that seemingly answer the unsaid, until my post, question. Where in the scripture does it expressly state the church will go through the great tribulation?


Answering that question by implication only to insist the question itself adds nothing to this discussion is irrational.

 

[Galatians220]

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

As someone who grew up in what was basically a "Pre-Tribulation cult" only to denounce & refute that eschatology as an adult, I can tell you from personal experience that you are going to have a very hard time trying to convince others to break free from the religious traditions & pet doctrines. Especially one that has been so manipulative & lucrative.