How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[oyster67]

Christ comes back to "pre-trib" rapture His Elect/Saints BEFORE the Resurrection

It is clear and obvious that the Rapture is the Resurrection...

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Now the Church is in Heaven. Note how v17 says we shall ever be with the Lord from this point on. The next event is our Wedding and Marriage Feast. We shall be given fine linen white and clean, participate in the Wedding and Marriage Feast, and then return to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming to rule and reign with Him 1000 years on Earth...

Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

As can be seen, future events are clearly delineated in Scripture. Those who are prepared for Rapture will not be left behind on Earth to endure the 7 years of Tribulation that immediately follow down here on Earth....

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[oyster67]

Pretrib Doctrine states:
Marriage was already perfomed in heaven 7 years previously excluding "tribulation saints" & Israel.

The Rapture happens pretrib, the Second Coming happens post-trib.

Wedding and Marriage upstairs, 7 years of Tribulation downstairs. Only then do we return to Earth with Him at His Second Coming.

 

[DavidTree]

It is clear and obvious that the Rapture is the Resurrection...

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Now the Church is in Heaven. Note how v17 says we shall ever be with the Lord from this point on. The next event is our Wedding and Marriage Feast. We shall be given fine linen white and clean, participate in the Wedding and Marriage Feast, and then return to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming to rule and reign with Him 1000 years on Earth...

Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

As can be seen, future events are clearly delineated in Scripture. Those who are prepared for Rapture will not be left behind on Earth to endure the 7 years of Tribulation that immediately follow down here on Earth....

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If you check my posts you will see that 1 Thess 4:13-18 is KEY but you made an error by injecting your words unto Christ's.

The rapture is NOT the Resurrection but His Coming is the Resurrection and the rapture is SUBJECT to His Coming and the Resurrection.

This is CRUCIAL to understanding and any misplacement of ORDER of Scripture is a twist that God will dismiss.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
After that we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together

As they must, all pre-trib error comes from adding to God's word whast HE did NOT say - you did exactly that here:
Now the Church is in Heaven. Note how v17 says we shall ever be with the Lord from this point on. The next event is our Wedding and Marriage Feast. We shall be given fine linen white and clean, participate in the Wedding and Marriage Feast, and then return to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming to rule and reign with Him 1000 years on Earth...

Dear Brother, this what you said( "and then return to Earth with Jesus at His Second Coming") is a LIE and you need to SEE that.

Please get back to me so you can SEE according to the very words of God from 1 Thess 4:13-18, and not the words of prideful men who came up with the falsehood of pre-trib.

Fear and Obey this Commandment and WARNING from the LORD: Revelation 22:18-19

 

[DWR]

The Rapture happens pretrib, the Second Coming happens post-trib.

Wedding and Marriage upstairs, 7 years of Tribulation downstairs. Only then do we return to Earth with Him at His Second Coming.

Can you answer the question I asked in post #2580?

 

[DavidTree]

The Rapture happens pretrib, the Second Coming happens post-trib.

Wedding and Marriage upstairs, 7 years of Tribulation downstairs. Only then do we return to Earth with Him at His Second Coming.

Dear Brother, what you said is a terrible lie against Scripture - i say this is love to you so that you may seek the Truth and reject men's doctrines of demons that was unleashed upon the Church after the Apostle Paul's departure.

Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
Acts 20:28-31

 

[peldom10]

So when Paul said we would be changed in the twinkling of an eye at the LAST trump, he was lying to us.
I see you are one of those who believe last does not mean last and first does not mean first unless it fits your twisted version of Scripture.

We are seeing that the new age religion left is connected at the hip with the radical political leftist. True to form. LOL

 

[oyster67]

you made an error

did not.

injecting your words unto Christ's.

did not.

The rapture is NOT the Resurrection

is.

His Coming is the Resurrection

is not.

This is CRUCIAL to understanding and any misplacement of ORDER of Scripture is a twist that God will dismiss.

roger that, mister twister.

The following is a general summary of all end time events leading up to Jesus' Second Coming...

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Note that, at the end of v.14, we are coming down with Him, not going up. i.e., the Rapture has happened and Jesus is bringing with Him those already clothed in the fine linen of Revelation 19.

The verses of 1 Thess 15+ simply restate v.13 and 14, but in much finer detail...

1 Thessalonians
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This shows how we shall all meet in the air prior to His Marriage Feast in Heaven. The idea that the Marriage happens on Earth is just a fudge factor super-glue that is used to attempt a fix for the broken idea of post-trib "rapture". (which is really the anti-thesis of any sort of rapture concept in the first place).

 

[DavidTree]

did not.

did not.

is.

is not.

roger that, mister twister.

The following is a general summary of all end time events leading up to Jesus' Second Coming...

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Note that, at the end of v.14, we are coming down with Him, not going up. i.e., the Rapture has happened and Jesus is bringing with Him those already clothed in the fine linen of Revelation 19.

The verses of 1 Thess 15+ simply restate v.13 and 14, but in much finer detail...

1 Thessalonians
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This shows how we shall all meet in the air prior to His Marriage Feast in Heaven. The idea that the Marriage happens on Earth is just a fudge factor super-glue that is used to attempt a fix for the broken idea of post-trib "rapture". (which is really the anti-thesis of any sort of rapture concept in the first place).

According to the word of the LORD, which occurs FIRST - the rapture or the Resurrection?

 

[DavidTree]

did not.

did not.

is.

is not.

roger that, mister twister.

The following is a general summary of all end time events leading up to Jesus' Second Coming...

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Note that, at the end of v.14, we are coming down with Him, not going up. i.e., the Rapture has happened and Jesus is bringing with Him those already clothed in the fine linen of Revelation 19.

The verses of 1 Thess 15+ simply restate v.13 and 14, but in much finer detail...

1 Thessalonians
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This shows how we shall all meet in the air prior to His Marriage Feast in Heaven. The idea that the Marriage happens on Earth is just a fudge factor super-glue that is used to attempt a fix for the broken idea of post-trib "rapture". (which is really the anti-thesis of any sort of rapture concept in the first place).

Can you please answer this:
According to the word of the LORD, which occurs FIRST - the rapture or the Resurrection?

 

[oyster67]

Can you answer the question I asked in post #2580?

Whelp, lets take a looksee then...

Rev.20 speaks of the FIRST resurrection.
It clearly teaches that the only way to escape the second death is to be in the First resurrection.
It also teaches that all whose names are in the book of life will be in the FIRST resurrection.
Also those "tribulation saints" will be in the FIRST resurrection.
SO---- here is the question---How can "the rapture of the church" take place 7 years before the "tribulation saints" are resurrected and they both be in the FIRST resurrection?

It appears that you have answered you own question when you stipulated that "the Raptured" were those "of the Church". Those who come to believe later are "tribulation saints".

"Also those "tribulation saints" will be in the FIRST resurrection."
-yes, but they might not be considered as part of the raptured Church. As you know, the second resurrection is that of the damned at the time of the Great White Throne (1000 years alter.)

Revelation
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Perhaps the roles of the Priest and the Bride might differ for a time. What are your thoughts on this? Might there be yet another group of tribulation believers who managed to avoid the chopping block? Will this group be those who repopulate the Earth during the Millennium? I will not pretend to know all down to the finest level of detail. We can still discuss it peacefully without getting all frothed up and hysterical as the manner of some can too quickly become.

 

[DWR]

Whelp, lets take a looksee then...




It appears that you have answered you own question when you stipulated that "the Raptured" were those "of the Church". Those who come to believe later are "tribulation saints".

"Also those "tribulation saints" will be in the FIRST resurrection."
-yes, but they might not be considered as part of the raptured Church. As you know, the second resurrection is that of the damned at the time of the Great White Throne (1000 years alter.)

Revelation
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Perhaps the roles of the Priest and the Bride might differ for a time. What are your thoughts on this? Might there be yet another group of tribulation believers who managed to avoid the chopping block? Will this group be those who repopulate the Earth during the Millennium? I will not pretend to know all down to the finest level of detail. We can still discuss it peacefully without getting all frothed up and hysterical as the manner of some can too quickly become.

You did not answer the question just a lot of mombo jumbo.
If the "rapture of the church" comes before the FIRST resurrection, which includes the tribulation saints and all whose name is in the book of life as the Scriptures clearly teaches, than the "church" is subject to the power of the second death.
The Scripture is very clear. The only ones to escape the second death are those in the FIRST resurrection.

 

[oyster67]

Can you please answer this:
According to the word of the LORD, which occurs FIRST - the rapture or the Resurrection?

Yes.

The First Resurrection = The rapture of the Church-age dead in Christ + The rapture of the living ones of the Church and then the non-Church headless Tribulation Saints.

The Second Resurrection = Those who have refused to believe. This is the resurrection of the damned that happens 1000 years later at The Great White Throne Judgement.

 

[oyster67]

The Scripture is very clear.

Roger that. At least we agree on something.

 

[DavidTree]

You did not answer the question just a lot of mombo jumbo.
If the "rapture of the church" comes before the FIRST resurrection, which includes the tribulation saints and all whose name is in the book of life as the Scriptures clearly teaches, than the "church" is subject to the power of the second death.
The Scripture is very clear. The only ones to escape the second death are those in the FIRST resurrection.

YES Brother and this is why the LORD said to the church of Smyrna and to us - Revelation 2:8-11

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.

 

[DWR]

Roger that. At least we agree on something.

BUT--- You still have not answered my question.
If the "rapture of the church" and the resurrection of the "tribulation saints" happens 7 years apart, as you believe, just how can they both be in the FIRST resurrection?

 

[DavidTree]

Yes.

The First Resurrection = The rapture of the Church-age dead in Christ + The rapture of the living ones of the Church and then the non-Church headless Tribulation Saints.

The Second Resurrection = Those who have refused to believe. This is the resurrection of the damned that happens 1000 years later at The Great White Throne Judgement.

That is not according to the words of the LORD - read again, please, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Pray for your eyes to see what was written without adding our words to it.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[oyster67]

If the "rapture of the church" comes before the FIRST resurrection,

It doesn't. The rapture is part of the first resurrection (the first part, which includes both dead believers and church members alive at this time.)

than the "church" is subject to the power of the second death.

It appears that you are not fully aware of what the second death is.

 

[oyster67]

can they both be in the FIRST resurrection?

shur can.
Definitely not part of second resurrection.

 

[DavidTree]

It doesn't. The rapture is part of the first resurrection (the first part, which includes both dead believers and church members alive at this time.)

It appears that you are not fully aware of what the second death is.

Brother, i want you to know that the Love of Christ in our hearts for each other is #1 - i see you as my Brother 100%.

So do not take offense with what i am sharing with you so that you can be free from the error of false doctrine.

You said: - " The rapture is part of the first resurrection = the first part". This is not just error but a complete lie.

i am not calling you a liar but you are believing and promoting a lie as you have been taught by carnal men to do so.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for the rapture to precede the Resurrection.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain
until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede
those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER THAT Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[oyster67]

That is not according to the words of the LORD

Sure it is.

Pray for your eyes to see what was written without adding our words to it.

Thanks, bro. Working pretty good so far.