How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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GaryA

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Dear Brother - you truthfully pointed out that it happened in 167 BC and 70 AD.

It can, and will happen again - Zechariah 14:1-5

Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.a

PEACE
This passage is talking about Armageddon. (yes - future)

The [real actual] AoD only happened once (167 B.C.) - and, only needs to happen once for all relevant scripture to be properly and fully fulfilled.
 
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I'm not preterit,pre trib. ect.(bare in mind please) but your beginning at Matthew 24:4 instead of Matthew 24:3(the questions they ask Jesus) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm And so they ask "the end of the age" so aeon of time(when it would end) https://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm and so as in the Scripture you gave(Matthew 24:34) the Lord answered the specific question they ask him about that age/generation/aeon they were then in(not generation as in 1940's,50's 60's ect) but the generations of the heavens and the earth as in https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm that is to them as Jewish(raised in Judaism) they saw an aeon(age/generation) as sets of one thousand year days as in Genesis 2:4's usage of toledoth(strongs 8435) https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8435.htm and 2 Peter 3:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/3-8.htm in that an age/generation was ending and the next was about to begin(not the end of the world) but in an series of prophetic days 1.2,3,thru 7 one age/aeon/generation(of time) was ending and the next beginning, So as if day 4 came to it's close and then day 5 began,then 6 and then day 7(the millennial)....
Hi Brother, How are you - have not spoken with with you in some time and it is nice to see you again.

'End of the age' is referring to satans ruling thru the Gentile kingdoms over Israel and the world.
The Jews at that time were fully aware of this from the Prophets Daniel , Job and Zechariah and even from Genesis concerning sin.

They were also quite aware of the spiritual nature of satan as they accused our LORD of casting out demons by Beelzebub.

Matthew 12
Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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What they saw was Jerusalem being surrounded by armies...
They weren't alive at the time that happened and once again, Jesus said one generation would see all the things Jesus told them about. Did anyone see Christ returning at that time? Did angels gather together the saints around the world? No.

What you have fallen for, and same with the AD70 crowd are TYPES of the actual events. History repeats itself so we can recognize the actual fulfilling. No type will match everything like the lack of one generation seeing everything. All both doctrines have is an enemy destroying Jerusalem and their armies surrounding etc. Both lack these events:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

That hasn't happened yet.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

That hasn't happened yet.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

That hasn't happened yet.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That hasn't happened yet.



Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And none of that has happened yet.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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So? Starting with Christ speaking is perfectly fine. The important part is the last few verses which prove any form of preterism is wrong.

My points not in proving wrong but that but that the foundation is incorrect as in "time,times and an dividing of time" one thousand(singular)+two thousand(plural) then an half so 3.5 thousand years or as in Daniel 9:27 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/9-27.htm in the middle of the prophetic week(Genesis 2:4) half way in the world history ect.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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This passage is talking about Armageddon. (yes - future)

The [real actual] AoD only happened once (167 B.C.) - and, only needs to happen once for all relevant scripture to be properly and fully fulfilled.
Yes, i can see that. We also have 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 , 1 John 2:18-19 and Daniel ch7 and Revelation

Do i believe they will build a third Temple in earth bound Jerusalem - right now i am undecided and have leaned against that because, as you said, if it was already fulfilled.
Secondly, we are the Temple of God and what is coming is about the End Time AoD standing where it should not -in Man.

This is why the LORD said "as in the Days of Noah, they were married and given in marriage."

PEACE and Happy Thanksgiving to ALL the Brethren
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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It is not preterism.

It is Historicism.

Same concept. Both take unfulfilled prophecies and claim they were fulfilled in the past. You are also avoiding all the things that clearly did not happen in the past that one generation must witness.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Hi Brother, How are you - have not spoken with with you in some time and it is nice to see you again.

'End of the age' is referring to satans ruling thru the Gentile kingdoms over Israel and the world.
The Jews at that time were fully aware of this from the Prophets Daniel , Job and Zechariah and even from Genesis concerning sin.

They were also quite aware of the spiritual nature of satan as they accused our LORD of casting out demons by Beelzebub.

Matthew 12
Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Good to see you also my friend...

And also as both Paul and Peter stated in Romans 13:1 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/13-1.htm and https://biblehub.com/1_peter/2-18.htm they instruct that we are submit to the masters appointed over us/them. So the Jews as we know did bow to Gods judgment under Babylon and then Persia and Greece but when it came to the fourth beast(Rome) they thought to "revolt"(66-70 then 167ad) and not follow what the Apostles suggested(Scriptures I gave) but instead by revolting they desired to cast off their servitude(mentioned in Danial) and so against God,,,they did not continue until the times of the gentiles was fulfilled.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I don't disagree with Paul or Luke or anyone in the Bible. They may have had different approaches to preaching the gospel to Jews and Gentiles, but the overall message is that there is no distinction between a Jew and Gentile in Christ, but rather a unified body of believers called the church.



Dispensational premillennialism isn't necessarily about dispensations. I don't agree with dispensations in the Bible, but I disagree that there is currently a valid distinction between Jew and Gentile. There is no valid way to the Father except through Christ. Anyone who rejects Christ, regardless of their race, ethnicity, fame, wealth, beliefs, etc will ultimately face the second death in the lake of fire.

Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, is a world savior and Christianity is the next stage of Judaism, complete with a New Covenant. It is open to all people regardless of who they are or where they are from.

That's why the rapture in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is invisible to your eyes. You think that ethnic Jews who are unbelievers in the Messiah are God's elect and that Jesus is coming back for them in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Is that right?

At this point, I've dismantled your theology down to pieces and explained to you how the dispensational premil theology is impossible and the pre-trib rapture is not real.
That's why the rapture in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is invisible to your eyes. You think that ethnic Jews who are unbelievers in the Messiah are God's elect and that Jesus is coming back for them in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Is that right?
we both know there is a gathering postrib.

in that gathering you somehow need it to be 1 thes4.

here it is;
mk 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

see that?
see the order of events?
Trib ends
Jesus comes in power and destroys the enemy

THEN...AFTER THAT....Jesus sends angels to gather or assemble his chosen ones.

That means there is not the slightest chance of the dead or living to meet him in the air.


At this point, I've dismantled your theology down to pieces and explained to you how the dispensational premil theology is impossible and the pre-trib rapture is not real
Yeah you really showed us didn't you?...too funny.
You guys got a tough job slamming through Gods word all belligerent like you do,
So i do understand your desperation.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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Same concept. Both take unfulfilled prophecies and claim they were fulfilled in the past. You are also avoiding all the things that clearly did not happen in the past that one generation must witness.
All moot at the moment.

What is your answer to my 'Consider' post quoted from earlier in this thread?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Good to see you also my friend...

And also as both Paul and Peter stated in Romans 13:1 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/13-1.htm and https://biblehub.com/1_peter/2-18.htm they instruct that we are submit to the masters appointed over us/them. So the Jews as we know did bow to Gods judgment under Babylon and then Persia and Greece but when it came to the fourth beast(Rome) they thought to "revolt"(66-70 then 167ad) and not follow what the Apostles suggested(Scriptures I gave) but instead by revolting they desired to cast off their servitude(mentioned in Danial) and so against God,,,they did not continue until the times of the gentiles was fulfilled.
What do you mean by this: "they did not continue until the times of the gentiles was fulfilled."
 
Aug 2, 2021
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we both know there is a gathering postrib.

in that gathering you somehow need it to be 1 thes4.

here it is;
mk 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

see that?
see the order of events?
Trib ends
Jesus comes in power and destroys the enemy

THEN...AFTER THAT....Jesus sends angels to gather or assemble his chosen ones.

That means there is not the slightest chance of the dead or living to meet him in the air.

Yeah you really showed us didn't you?...too funny.
You guys got a tough job slamming through Gods word all belligerent like you do,
So i do understand your desperation.
YES, When the LORD comes there will be the Resurrection/Gathering.

You need to remember that the LORD did not give the full details of His Coming/Resurrection until AFTER He ascended - ACTS ch1

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
John 16
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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What do you mean by this: "they did not continue until the times of the gentiles was fulfilled."
All the four beast of Daniel were to rule over them until Gods appointed punishment was complete,,,They, the Jews decided to revolt and break off Romes rule over them (ad66) but Romes rule over them was not yet complete. Afterwards they were carried away into captivity as the Lord explained to them(seven times more).... It's interesting to see what the Apostles suggested in the NT epistles in that their advice was to remain in subjection to the then master(fourth beast/Rome) as if they understood to still submit to it as ordained by God.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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All the four beast of Daniel were to rule over them until Gods appointed punishment was complete,,,They, the Jews decided to revolt and break off Romes rule over them (ad66) but Romes rule over them was not yet complete. Afterwards they were carried away into captivity as the Lord explained to them(seven times more).... It's interesting to see what the Apostles suggested in the NT epistles in that their advice was to remain in subjection to the then master(fourth beast/Rome) as if they understood to still submit to it as ordained by God.

And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

When HE Returns - they all come crashing down.

Gotta go now - Good Nite Brother
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

When HE Returns - they all come crashing down.

Gotta go now - Good Nite Brother

Yes and in being disobedient to Gods decree they were punished seven times more as he said https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus 26&version=KJV they should have obeyed instead of revolting.


Me too good night,sweet dreams and an good holiday,,,see you in a few days if the Lord wills...
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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No, they are very relevant and need to be addressed.
Some things digest better if taken in small bites...

What is your answer to my question?

What did they see?

Do you understand what that 'Consider' post is saying?

There is no possible way that the Jew-Christians fled Jerusalem because they "saw" the AoD [and then fled].
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Some things digest better if taken in small bites...
Again, one generation has to not only see the AoD but all the things Christ listed which includes the second coming. That's why your view and any similar view is incorrect no matter how closely past events match the AoD. They all lack a large amount of events that happen in the same timeframe.