How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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DavidTree

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And the event he is quoting is the Pre Trib Rapture, it amazes me at how scripturally unlearned "some Christians" are. The passage is VERY CLEAR. The Dead in Christ ARISE [First].....(although I think this is just used by Paul to ENCOURAGE those in Theeolinika who were worried their loved ones wouldn't be Raptured with them)......and then those of us who are alive and remain will be CHANGED (Meaning we lose our corrupted flesh and go to heave as Spirit Men).

So, it's like me and my wife walking in a Store at the SAME TIME, if my foot goes into the store I went in FIRST I guess, but technically we went in holding hands at the exact same time. Paul is just EMPHASIZING that their loved ones are not going to be left in the grave, so he, "AS A PASTOR" reassures them, these were not "THUS SAITH THE LORD" Letters, these were Pastoral letters to a Congregation his job was to ASSURE THEM, their loved ones would be taken to heaven and not left in the graves.

LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, Paul said this, well its Letters to a Congregation, it's not THUS SAITH THE LORD. It amazes me via te people who can not grasp te difference.
Not a single rapture will take place until the Dead in Christ Rise FIRST - FIRST is FIRST

a little twist here, a little twist there
we know you don't care
HE said HE is FIRST, for the Grave is a Thirst
to take a Drink from the LORD of the Rink
When His Voice gives the SHOUT
out of the Grave they will Rise all About
Only After that will there be a Chat
from those who are still standing
His Elect, who endured with His Commanding
 

DavidTree

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Jesus reveals 2 "comings" in mat 24
Saying that there is more then One Second Coming
is adding to His words
something that we should never of heard
when an idol refuses to die
it is because in men's hearts it finds a place to hide
i do not fear when men with their words draw near
they have an agenda and gather a crescenda
and yet God's Words are True for they came from the Blue
Tribulation is a guarantee from satan and his army
the LORD told us not to fear the death that may come near
When you see these things take place we are finishing the Race
Job was such a Man who followed God's Plan
Job endured to the End and His Redeemer did find him
Look Up, lift Up your heads for your Redemption draws nigh
No matter what may come - His Love will not deny
 
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Was I not clear? The entire Olivet Discourse and all of it's events are still yet to occur.



No, none has.
So this has not happened yet?

Matt 24: Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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Saying that there is more then One Second Coming
is adding to His words
something that we should never of heard
when an idol refuses to die
it is because in men's hearts it finds a place to hide
i do not fear when men with their words draw near
they have an agenda and gather a crescenda
and yet God's Words are True for they came from the Blue
Tribulation is a guarantee from satan and his army
the LORD told us not to fear the death that may come near
When you see these things take place we are finishing the Race
Job was such a Man who followed God's Plan
Job endured to the End and His Redeemer did find him
Look Up, lift Up your heads for your Redemption draws nigh
No matter what may come - His Love will not deny
You are TOO funny! When He comes again AFTER His second coming, it cannot be called a "second" coming: it will then be His THIRD coming.

Just so you know, this is not "adding" a coming not written: BOTH comings are written and they are two different and separate comings.
1 Thes. 4 mentions a coming and it is a coming FOR His saints.
Matthew 24 mentions a coming and Rev. 19 SHOWS this coming. It is a coming for WAR. Here the saints come WITH HIM.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Saying that there is more then One Second Coming
is adding to His words
something that we should never of heard
when an idol refuses to die
it is because in men's hearts it finds a place to hide
i do not fear when men with their words draw near
they have an agenda and gather a crescenda
and yet God's Words are True for they came from the Blue
Tribulation is a guarantee from satan and his army
the LORD told us not to fear the death that may come near
When you see these things take place we are finishing the Race
Job was such a Man who followed God's Plan
Job endured to the End and His Redeemer did find him
Look Up, lift Up your heads for your Redemption draws nigh
No matter what may come - His Love will not deny
Jesus comes "before the flood", in one of his declarations of mat 24

Jesus comes "after the trib in power" in his other.

Both in mat 24.

In "before the flood" one is taken, the other left. (you have nowhere to go in that. It is your doctrines pattern to wildly ascribe things like "the wicked are ALWAYS gathered first" ...which I easily debunked)

In "before the flood" we have normal everyday life of working and activities which is DECLARED in mat 24.

You do realize your position has Noah gathered "after the flood"?

such a poor position makes my job very easy...and is why you will not go there.

read your own post. It is just some safe generalization of some superimposed ,non existent relevance.

has no actual addressing of specifics.

your style
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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You are TOO funny! When He comes again AFTER His second coming, it cannot be called a "second" coming: it will then be His THIRD coming.

Just so you know, this is not "adding" a coming not written: BOTH comings are written and they are two different and separate comings.
1 Thes. 4 mentions a coming and it is a coming FOR His saints.
Matthew 24 mentions a coming and Rev. 19 SHOWS this coming. It is a coming for WAR. Here the saints come WITH HIM.
yes
their undoing is making 2 comings into one.

They will not go there.

it is called "invincible ignorance" because they cling to, and defend, an obvious impossibility.

their job is a hard one. ours is easy. We just force them to refute the word of God.

they are game for that. Get owned. then start extra biblical dialogue
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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Do you realize that the time span of the "all these things" (as you see it) of the Olivet Discourse is ~2000 years long?
I'm with eqw here: Jesus said the generation (single) that sees the beginning of the end will see all of the end. Many people believe seeing Israel becoming a nation was the beginning - the generation that saw that event will not be totally gone before all is accomplished. I don't think we have to start "all these things:" with Genesis 1:1.
One thing is sure: the generation that saw the temple torn down will not be alive to see the trumpet judgments or vials.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Not a single rapture will take place until the Dead in Christ Rise FIRST - FIRST is FIRST

a little twist here, a little twist there
we know you don't care
HE said HE is FIRST, for the Grave is a Thirst
to take a Drink from the LORD of the Rink
When His Voice gives the SHOUT
out of the Grave they will Rise all About
Only After that will there be a Chat
from those who are still standing
His Elect, who endured with His Commanding
Rev 14 has a gathering during the trib.

It has to be AFTER the main rapture or the dead in Christ raised. (ahem...after the pretrib rapture)

Nothing else will work.

Nobody wants to go there.

I sit back and just enjoy what it says.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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You are TOO funny! When He comes again AFTER His second coming, it cannot be called a "second" coming: it will then be His THIRD coming.

Just so you know, this is not "adding" a coming not written: BOTH comings are written and they are two different and separate comings.
1 Thes. 4 mentions a coming and it is a coming FOR His saints.
Matthew 24 mentions a coming and Rev. 19 SHOWS this coming. It is a coming for WAR. Here the saints come WITH HIM.
There was only One First Coming and the Scripture says there is only One Second Coming.

When you say He is Coming Two separate times after His Ascension, you are adding to God's words and committing sin.

This is not funny, but very grievious to the LORD and to the Body of Christ as it cause division based on error.

Now, if you want to clear your heart and align your spirit with Christ - do not add to His words nor take away.

In all your posts - you have never provided a scripture for 'pre-trib rapture'.

Here is the Scripture for you to follow:

Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:28
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Not a single rapture will take place until the Dead in Christ Rise FIRST - FIRST is FIRST

a little twist here, a little twist there
we know you don't care
HE said HE is FIRST, for the Grave is a Thirst
to take a Drink from the LORD of the Rink
When His Voice gives the SHOUT
out of the Grave they will Rise all About
Only After that will there be a Chat
from those who are still standing
His Elect, who endured with His Commanding
everybody believes the dead rise first.

the ac kills all refusing the mark

so there are no living saints to gather post trib

rev 14 is a no brainer.
the firstfruit jews gathered FIRST, then the main body of jews (grape harvest) in verse 14, BY JESUS SITTING ON A CLOUD.

That bible has the nerve to refute you.

count them...that makes 3 comings...unless you think Jesus stops in the clouds, gets off his horse, changes clothes,grabs a sickle and sits on a cloud.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Jesus comes "before the flood", in one of his declarations of mat 24

Jesus comes "after the trib in power" in his other.

Both in mat 24.

In "before the flood" one is taken, the other left. (you have nowhere to go in that. It is your doctrines pattern to wildly ascribe things like "the wicked are ALWAYS gathered first" ...which I easily debunked)

In "before the flood" we have normal everyday life of working and activities which is DECLARED in mat 24.

You do realize your position has Noah gathered "after the flood"?

such a poor position makes my job very easy...and is why you will not go there.

read your own post. It is just some safe generalization of some superimposed ,non existent relevance.

has no actual addressing of specifics.

your style
AMEN to the LORD coming BEFORE the wrath of God - the Flood - AMEN

The Truth of Scripture never places Noah after the Flood - the Flood was God' wrath.

The Great Tribulation BEFORE the Flood, Noah had to endure - Just as Daniel and Job.

NOAH, DANIEL and JOB are 'End Time' Prophets.
The LORD, thru them, demonstrates to us today, to prepare by being forewarned of what shall be BEFORE His Coming.

Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith,
that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.
For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain. 1Thess 3:1-5
 

Absolutely

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AMEN to the LORD coming BEFORE the wrath of God - the Flood - AMEN

The Truth of Scripture never places Noah after the Flood - the Flood was God' wrath.

The Great Tribulation BEFORE the Flood, Noah had to endure - Just as Daniel and Job.

NOAH, DANIEL and JOB are 'End Time' Prophets.
The LORD, thru them, demonstrates to us today, to prepare by being forewarned of what shall be BEFORE His Coming.
No
not even close.
read all about the 4 horsemen ,the mark, and the slaughter.
Noah went through none of that.

see, that's the thing about trying reframe the gt into "oh that's just the trib at first..no big deal, but then the wrath comes in the second half."

It is as if you guys have never read the 4 horsemen ...or....WHO SENDS THEM.
 

DavidTree

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No
not even close.
read all about the 4 horsemen ,the mark, and the slaughter.
Noah went through none of that.

see, that's the thing about trying reframe the gt into "oh that's just the trib at first..no big deal, but then the wrath comes in the second half."

It is as if you guys have never read the 4 horsemen ...or....WHO SENDS THEM.
NOAH went thru worse - far worse, where only eight souls were saved.

Compare that to the LORD saying - HE has shortened the days or no flesh would be saved.

Eight Souls in NOAH's Day and in CHRIST's Second Coming thousands many more Souls still standing for His Return.

Thousands is still a small number compared to Billions, but much more then just Eight.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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AMEN to the LORD coming BEFORE the wrath of God - the Flood - AMEN

The Truth of Scripture never places Noah after the Flood - the Flood was God' wrath.

The Great Tribulation BEFORE the Flood, Noah had to endure - Just as Daniel and Job.

NOAH, DANIEL and JOB are 'End Time' Prophets.
The LORD, thru them, demonstrates to us today, to prepare by being forewarned of what shall be BEFORE His Coming.

Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith,
that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.
For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain. 1Thess 3:1-5
It is good to post scripture.
It is even better to understand the posted scriptures.

You have shown over and over that you don't believe John and where he tells us God's wrath begins.
Always remember: John starts the DAY of His wrath (so of course His wrath) BEFORE the 70th week.

Therefore the entire 70th week comes with His wrath.

This proves PREtrib, not post. Just saying....
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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There was only One First Coming and the Scripture says there is only One Second Coming.

When you say He is Coming Two separate times after His Ascension, you are adding to God's words and committing sin.

This is not funny, but very grievious to the LORD and to the Body of Christ as it cause division based on error.

Now, if you want to clear your heart and align your spirit with Christ - do not add to His words nor take away.

In all your posts - you have never provided a scripture for 'pre-trib rapture'.

Here is the Scripture for you to follow:

Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:28
The very title, "FIRST" coming proves only one but also proves another - by definition.

Did you not notice that God does not use "first," "second" or third" or any other number for His coming as shown in Rev. 19. Neither in Matthew 24. I think God understands that we can count.

He used the word "second" in relation to a coming ONLY ONCE as shown in Heb. 9.

However, Paul used the word coming in 1 Thes. 4, Matthew used the word coming in chapter 14, and John shows a coming in Rev. 19. Matthew 16:28 mentions His coming. Matthew 26:64 mentions His coming. Mark 13:26 mentions His coming. Mark 14:62 mentions His coming. Luke 19:23 mentions His coming. Luke 21:27 mentions His coming. 1 Cor. 15:23 mentions His coming. 1 Thes. 2:19 mentions His coming. 1 Thes. 3:13 mentions His coming with all His saints. James 5:7 mentions His coming. 2 Peter 1:16 mentions His coming. 1 John 2:28 mentions His coming. I have lost count how many. Shall we just add them all up and declare He is coming 14 or 15 more times? Or, as a pendulum swings both ways, let's cram them all into ONE coming.

We have two extremes - and neither one is wise or correct. A real student of the bible will study each mention of a coming and determine by study and meditation if there is one, two or more comings after His first one. I have determined in my mind that He will come twice more, first FOR His saints, and later WITH His saints to Armageddon.

By the way, by very definition, "first" can only be one coming, and "second" can only be one coming.

Jesus did not choose to put a number by every mention of His coming. There is no scripture anywhere that denies He could come the Third time, but certainly, if He comes the second time FOR His saints, and another time WITH His saints, that would be a THIRD coming. We can all count. In other words, just because you cannot find the word "third" by a coming does not prove He will not come a third time.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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yes
their undoing is making 2 comings into one.

They will not go there.

it is called "invincible ignorance" because they cling to, and defend, an obvious impossibility.

their job is a hard one. ours is easy. We just force them to refute the word of God.

they are game for that. Get owned. then start extra biblical dialogue
I like the way you say things.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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It is good to post scripture.
It is even better to understand the posted scriptures.

You have shown over and over that you don't believe John and where he tells us God's wrath begins.
Always remember: John starts the DAY of His wrath (so of course His wrath) BEFORE the 70th week.

Therefore the entire 70th week comes with His wrath.

This proves PREtrib, not post. Just saying....
The 70th week is in Daniel - the 70th week is interpreted by Scripture and not vise versa as you are doing with it.

Daniel 7 = This is what he said: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth, different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour the whole earth, trample it down, and crush it. And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings.
He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws; and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Then [a]I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months. 6Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
7It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints
 

GaryA

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Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD and has come to pass. Verses 7-14 is about the Church Age and is about to end via the Rapture, so its all pretty much come to pass and when verse 14 comes to fruition in full, the time of the Gentiles will have come full.

Verses 15-31 are all during the 70th week.
If you are interested, you can see with what I believe each verse is associated here:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html

Read Zechariah 13:8-9, we see 3-5 million Jews who repent, they then Flee Judea as we see Matt. 24:15-17 happens during the 70th week. The LAST SIGN out of all the 2000 years worth of signs, is the Sun and Moon dimming just before Jesus' Second Coming (3.5 years of God's Wrath).
The Zechariah verses are part of the Armageddon Scenario.

There will not be a 'see-then-flee' during that time.

However, there will be [just a] 'flee' into the valley when the mount of Olives cleaves as described in Zechariah 14.

The Matthew verses are part of the events circa 70 A.D.

There is no "70th week" in the End Times Scenario - it ended in 34 A.D. and is 100% fulfilled.