How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Nehemiah6]

There is nothing in vs 46 indicating Jesus spirit went to heaven at the crucifixion.

Right. The spirit and soul are distinct but also inseparable (Heb 4:12). Therefore the soul and spirit of Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights, where He preached to the spirits in prison. And it is "the spirits of just men" (the OT saints) which are now in Heaven. But the souls cannot be separated from spirits, since the souls of the martyrs are under the altar in Heaven.

 

[DavidTree]

"""....the Bible testifies Jesus' Spirit went UP (Luke 23:46 KJV) to the Father's hands, but His Soul went DOWN (Acts 2:27...."""

There is nothing in vs 46 indicating Jesus spirit went to heaven at the crucifixion.

46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Post #5,758

 

[DavidTree]

Right. The spirit and soul are distinct but also inseparable (Heb 4:12). Therefore the soul and spirit of Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights, where He preached to the spirits in prison. And it is "the spirits of just men" (the OT saints) which are now in Heaven. But the souls cannot be separated from spirits, since the souls of the martyrs are under the altar in Heaven.

Post #5,758

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You need to read some of the many promises of God to Israel.
Isaiah 11:11-12
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Does the "gathering from the four corners of the earth" ring a bell?

Yes.




[also Isaiah 27:9,12-13]

 

[DavidTree]

You need to read some of the many promises of God to Israel.

Isaiah 11:11-12

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Does the "gathering from the four corners of the earth" ring a bell?

The Second Coming of Christ will accomplish many things in the Plan of God foretold by His Prophets.

The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

 

[Absolutely]

Right. The spirit and soul are distinct but also inseparable (Heb 4:12). Therefore the soul and spirit of Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights, where He preached to the spirits in prison. And it is "the spirits of just men" (the OT saints) which are now in Heaven. But the souls cannot be separated from spirits, since the souls of the martyrs are under the altar in Heaven.

Yes
So many are unaware of that.

.....and will readily stay there.

 

[Absolutely]

All rapture verses are pretrib, peacetime, and normal life.

No mid trib or postrib rapture.

Now, if you leave out the rapture verses then you can work in other positions.
But be sure to omit the rapture verses.

 

[DavidTree]

All rapture verses are pretrib, peacetime, and normal life.

No mid trib or postrib rapture.

Now, if you leave out the rapture verses then you can work in other positions.
But be sure to omit the rapture verses.

You said: "All rapture verses are pretrib, peacetime, and normal life." = this is a lie.

#1. There are no pre-trib rapture verses in the Bible
#2. God completely destroyed, in His WRATH, the entire world with the Great Flood because of "normal life".

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Chist is LORD.

You will give an account for every word and for adding to and taking away from God's words. = Deut 4:1-2, Prov 30:5-6, Rev 22:18-19

This is a warning for everyone to escape the Judgment that is coming = 2 Corinthians ch5

Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

The SAVIOR of the world = JESUS the CHRIST says Immediately after the Tribulation = Matt ch24

There is not one pre-trib verse in the entire Scriptures where God says He will rapture you before Tribulation = not one.

 

[Nehemiah6]

#2. God completely destroyed, in His WRATH, the entire world with the Great Flood because of "normal life".

But he saved eight souls during that time and they were untouched by the Flood. And just before the Flood to took Methuselah out of this world. And even before that He took Enoch to Heaven (a type of the Rapture).

Looks like you know neither the purpose of the Rapture nor the purpose of the wrath. Why did God forcibly remove Lot and his family from Sodom? Evidently they all loved Sodom, yet the Bible calls Lot a "righteous" man because he was justified by grace through faith. His actions were somewhat righteous and somewhat unrighteous.

Wrath is reserved for the unbelieving, the ungodly, the wicked, and all those who reject God's truth. It has absolutely no bearing on the fate of the saints, because Christ bore that wrath on our behalf. The Tribulation is a period of divine wrath, and no amount of weaseling will change that.

 

[DavidTree]

But he saved eight souls during that time and they were untouched by the Flood. And just before the Flood to took Methuselah out of this world. And even before that He took Enoch to Heaven (a type of the Rapture).

Looks like you know neither the purpose of the Rapture nor the purpose of the wrath. Why did God forcibly remove Lot and his family from Sodom? Evidently they all loved Sodom, yet the Bible calls Lot a "righteous" man because he was justified by grace through faith. His actions were somewhat righteous and somewhat unrighteous.

Wrath is reserved for the unbelieving, the ungodly, the wicked, and all those who reject God's truth. It has absolutely no bearing on the fate of the saints, because Christ bore that wrath on our behalf. The Tribulation is a period of divine wrath, and no amount of weaseling will change that.

Enoch = the 7th from Adam who went face to face with the fallen angels and also spoke with God before he was taken.

One Prophet, the 7th from Adam = OT CHRISTOPHANY = CLEAR Portrayal of CHRIST'S First Coming.

No Body/Group of Believers were raptured. Enoch walked with God(clear OT Christ) and was not for God took him.

Fallen Angels descended upon earth and mixed there angelic DNA with the daughters of men = Genesis ch6 and Jude
As a result of this the world experienced the Greatest and Most Wicked/Evil Tribulation it had ever seen at that time.

CLEAR POST TRIB-RAPTURE = so GREAT was the tribulation of wickedness upon earth that God poured out His wrath and destroyed ALL Flesh except for Noah & Family.

Tribulation is NOT God's WRATH = it always PRECEDES God's Wrath

God does not want you to suffer judgment for adding or taking away from His word's.

Neither do i, and so i speak the Truth by the Holy Spirit and the Prophets, the Lord and the Apostles bear witness to my word's.

 

[Absolutely]

But he saved eight souls during that time and they were untouched by the Flood. And just before the Flood to took Methuselah out of this world. And even before that He took Enoch to Heaven (a type of the Rapture).

Looks like you know neither the purpose of the Rapture nor the purpose of the wrath. Why did God forcibly remove Lot and his family from Sodom? Evidently they all loved Sodom, yet the Bible calls Lot a "righteous" man because he was justified by grace through faith. His actions were somewhat righteous and somewhat unrighteous.

Wrath is reserved for the unbelieving, the ungodly, the wicked, and all those who reject God's truth. It has absolutely no bearing on the fate of the saints, because Christ bore that wrath on our behalf. The Tribulation is a period of divine wrath, and no amount of weaseling will change that.

Mid tribbers will try to improvise the story to say that noah was removed " mid trib"....and attempt to make some case that noah went through " some tribulation" prior to the flood.

How cunning!

But no.
Noah was removed Pre flood.
Pretrib
Prewrath.

And the poor postribbers are so busted by Noah.

Nowhere was Noah gathered/ taken/ removed/ or delivered AFTER the flood.

Noah is a pretrib model 100%.

Same with Lot..100 % pretrib gathering dynamic.

 

[DavidTree]

Mid tribbers will try to improvise the story to say that noah was removed " mid trib"....and attempt to make some case that noah went through " some tribulation" prior to the flood.

How cunning!

But no.
Noah was removed Pre flood.
Pretrib
Prewrath.

And the poor postribbers are so busted by Noah.

Nowhere was Noah gathered/ taken/ removed/ or delivered AFTER the flood.

Noah is a pretrib model 100%.

Same with Lot..100 % pretrib gathering dynamic.

Noah and Lot were in great trouble and had to be delivered from God's wrath for the Scripture does not lie = 2 Peter 2:4-9

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

Those who love the error/idol of pre-trib will continue to reject these clear teachings from Scripture that expose it.
They will not yield to the Spirit of Truth, they will divide the Body of Christ and even hate their Brethren who speak the Truth against pre-trib. As the Scripture says: "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies," 2 Peter 2:1

They lack the Fear of God and believe men over God's words, this is called 'respect of persons'.
To have respect of persons is not good: for a piece of bread that man will transgress - Proverbs 28:21

Noah lived during the Greatest Tribulation the world had ever seen. So great was the wickedness, which is tribulation, that all flesh was corrupted before God and His wrath was poured out upon the entire world.

Lot also lived under the tribulation and oppression of this wickedness and had to be delivered from the WRATH of God.

They will even deny clear teachings from the Lord Jesus Christ who said: "I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation." John 16:33

They will deny the clear teachings from the Apostles who said: "to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 14:22

They reject the Prophets Noah, Job and Daniel who had to endure great tribulation and by faith were delivered from wrath.
These Prophets: Noah, Job and Daniel were set as examples for us to follow and of whom the world was not worthy to receive.

Embrace the Prayer and Blessing of our Lord who prayed: I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. John ch17

 

[Nehemiah6]

Noah and Lot were in great trouble and had to be delivered from God's wrath for the Scripture does not lie = 2 Peter 2:4-9

The Bible does not lie, but liars lie. Since Noah had been commanded to build the ark -- a huge ship -- long before the Flood (120 years before), how could he have been "in great trouble"? As for Lot, God already knew that Lot and his family were to be delivered from wrath, therefore He specifically sent two angels to Sodom. So it was Sodom that was "in great trouble", not Lot.

 

[DavidTree]

The Bible does not lie, but liars lie. Since Noah had been commanded to build the ark -- a huge ship -- long before the Flood (120 years before), how could he have been "in great trouble"? As for Lot, God already knew that Lot and his family were to be delivered from wrath, therefore He specifically sent two angels to Sodom. So it was Sodom that was "in great trouble", not Lot.

EXACTLY = Noah and Lot were in Great Tribulation and had God not intervened they would of perished under His Wrath.

For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter ch3


Please read Genesis again, including Jude and 2 Peter.

Study about the Greatest Tribulation the world ever witnessed in Noah time.

Study about what was taking place in Sodom and Gomorrah, whereby they were destroyed by FIRE & BRIMSTONE.

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible does not lie, but liars lie. Since Noah had been commanded to build the ark -- a huge ship -- long before the Flood (120 years before), how could he have been "in great trouble"? As for Lot, God already knew that Lot and his family were to be delivered from wrath, therefore He specifically sent two angels to Sodom. So it was Sodom that was "in great trouble", not Lot.

Being in the midst of such a sinful situation is the great trouble Noah and Lot lived in. The Great Tribulation is described as how life was at the time of Noah before the flood:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

So if we compare the times of and second coming, before the flood would be equal to the time of the Great Tribulation, and the flood is the coming of Jesus. The idea of fleeing from the coming wrath is the rapture. For Noah it was by boat, for Lot it was by foot with angels. Both situations are after a period of wickedness and sin, then rapture or taken away safely to a safe place for a new life, then the coming of Jesus and wrath. One by water, one by fire in the two examples. The end times wrath will be via the sword of the Lord and the vials of wrath.

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


Notice order of events in both:

First: the wicked carried on like everything was normal - "They ate, drank, and married each other" "they ate, drank, bought and sold, planted and builded"
second: they good people taken into or away to safety - "Noe entered into the ark" "Lot went out of Sodom"
third: The wrath of God - "and the flood came" "fire and brimstone fell from heaven"
fourth: The wicked are killed - "the flood destroyed them all" "fire and brimstone destroyed them all"


Same thing will happen at the end of the Tribulation.

Everything will seem normal to people. Then the rapture will occur taking the good people away. Then the wrath of God will come and the wicked will be slain. Same order of events, same results. The only difference in the methods of saving the good and killing the wicked. The past events happen more than once in order to teach us what to expect in the future.

 

[DavidTree]

Being in the midst of such a sinful situation is the great trouble Noah and Lot lived in. The Great Tribulation is described as how life was at the time of Noah before the flood:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

So if we compare the times of and second coming, before the flood would be equal to the time of the Great Tribulation, and the flood is the coming of Jesus. The idea of fleeing from the coming wrath is the rapture. For Noah it was by boat, for Lot it was by foot with angels. Both situations are after a period of wickedness and sin, then rapture or taken away safely to a safe place for a new life, then the coming of Jesus and wrath. One by water, one by fire in the two examples. The end times wrath will be via the sword of the Lord and the vials of wrath.

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


Notice order of events in both:

First: the wicked carried on like everything was normal - "They ate, drank, and married each other" "they ate, drank, bought and sold, planted and builded"
second: they good people taken into or away to safety - "Noe entered into the ark" "Lot went out of Sodom"
third: The wrath of God - "and the flood came" "fire and brimstone fell from heaven"
fourth: The wicked are killed - "the flood destroyed them all" "fire and brimstone destroyed them all"


Same thing will happen at the end of the Tribulation.

Everything will seem normal to people. Then the rapture will occur taking the good people away. Then the wrath of God will come and the wicked will be slain. Same order of events, same results. The only difference in the methods of saving the good and killing the wicked. The past events happen more than once in order to teach us what to expect in the future.

Everything will seem 'normal' to the wicked who have fully given themselves to great wickedness.

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess ch2

We, who have been made Righteous by the Blood of Jesus Christ are grieved everyday by the continuious progressive moving away from God by the wicked.

We are not in darkness and, like Noah, are preparing our hearts for His Coming.

For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
1 Thess 5:1-10

 

[cv5]

Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum has recently issued a statement updating his view on 2Thes 2:3....
Ariel Ministries now accepts "departure" as an interpretation of that verse.

Interesting....

 

[ewq1938]

Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum has recently issued a statement updating his view on 2Thes 2:3....
Ariel Ministries now accepts "departure" as an interpretation of that verse.

Interesting....

The Apostasy is a departure, from the truth. It is a moral departure, not a physical departure. Apostasia never means to go somewhere. The Apostasia is when Christian will depart from the faith of Christ to the antichrist. That's why it is tied to the revealing of the man of sin.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Great Tribulation is described as how life was at the time of Noah before the flood:

The Great Tribulation has no comparison to the time of Noah for the simple reason that Christ called it a UNIQUE EVENT -- it has never occurred before nor will it be repeated again: For then shall be [The] Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:21) "The" has been inserted since it is called "The Tribulation, the Great" in Revelation 7. I believe it corresponds to the seven vials of wrath connected to the 7th trumpet.

 

[ewq1938]

The Great Tribulation has no comparison to the time of Noah for the simple reason that Christ called it a UNIQUE EVENT -- it has never occurred before nor will it be repeated again

Everyone understands that. We can see a version of the Great Tribulation and rapture in the examples of Lot and Noah which is why Christ used them to compare to his second coming.

"The" has been inserted since it is called "The Tribulation, the Great" in Revelation 7.

The "Great Tribulation" is not the one mentioned in Revelation 7. It is the one Christ spoke of in the Olivet Discourse which is the greatest/worst time of Christian persecution just before the second coming.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

"the" as in "the Great Tribulation" is something in English to distinguish something from other similar things. There is no "insertion".