How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[cv5]

Pure confusion. It says the APOSTASY happens before the revealing of man of sin, not the RAPTURE. If you want to depart in the Apostasy, go right ahead. The rest of us will partiently endure in faith, not becoming Apostates, and wait for real rapture when the great trib has ended.

You mean "he apostasia"? Yes very clearly this means "the departure". Just "the departure", nothing more.

But it does NOT mean "the departure from the faith".

Somebody anybody anywhere anytime show me the Greek manuscript that includes the Greek terms "from the faith" after the Greek terms "he apostasia".

They can't because it doesn't exist.

This much ballyhooed "apostasy" misapprehension is the result of a vivid imagination nothing more.

 

[ewq1938]

You mean "he apostasia"? Yes very clearly this means "the departure". Just "the departure", nothing more.

But it does NOT mean "the departure from the faith".

Wrong. That is EXACTLY what it means and every scholar agrees. Like I said, if you want to be an APOSTATE, that is your choice but it will be worst decision you will ever make.

 

[cv5]

No - but you [surely] have seen me post the "straight answer" you were asking about several times by now...

So - what kind of game are you playing?

(You must be; otherwise, you are REALLY not paying attention...?)

Just winning my friend just winning. More accurately stated, I am "hupernikao" in, by and of the Lord Jesus Christ.

You should try it sometime.......

 

[cv5]

Wrong. That is EXACTLY what it means and every scholar agrees. Like I said, if you want to be an APOSTATE, that is your choice but it will be worst decision you will ever make.

Nope. TDW doesn't agree. And neither do I.......

 

[ewq1938]

Nope. TDW doesn't agree. And neither do I.......

Yeah, you TWO people disagree with the whole of Greek scholarship and history of that word. Guess which direction I will go on this, completely away from what you TWO people teach. The rest of the world knows what Apostasy/Apostasia actually mean.

 

[cv5]

Yeah, you TWO people disagree with the whole of Greek scholarship and history of that word. Guess which direction I will go on this, completely away from what you TWO people teach. The rest of the world knows what Apostasy/Apostasia actually mean.

If you can find me a Greek manuscript that includes the terms "from the faith", I would be more than willing to change my mind......

 

[GaryA]

Nope. TDW doesn't agree. And neither do I.......

When are you going to stop using TDW for a crutch and be your own man and discuss the scriptures in detail according to the way it is presented by post-trib folks...???

Just wondering...

 

[ewq1938]

If you can find me a Greek manuscript that includes the terms "from the faith", I would be more than willing to change my mind......

The one word means to depart from faith. Ask any Greek scholar.

 

[GaryA]

If you can find me a Greek manuscript that includes the terms "from the faith", I would be more than willing to change my mind......

You are referring to the phrase "falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 - correct?

(Just making sure.)

 

[cv5]

You are referring to the phrase "falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 - correct?

(Just making sure.)

No. More precisely I am referring to the phrase "the departure" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.......
It is not possible to rightfully interpret that peculiar phase as "falling away". The Greek is very precise and needs to be.

I mean people are adding "from the faith" WRONG! People are plugging in "falling away" WRONG!

It's just "the departure" nothing more nothing less. And considering that Paul is speaking to the rapture in these passages it is most fitting in this application don't you agree?

 

[ewq1938]

It's just "the departure" nothing more nothing less.

It's a departure from Christ and faith in him. All scholars agree on this. You are wrong.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual "departure" not a physical departure.

G646
a?p?stas?´a
apostasia
Thayer Definition:
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647
Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2

The only other use of this word in the bible was people departing from the teachings of Moses which is an Apostasy from his teachings. Neither use has anything to do with simply going somewhere physically.

 

[GaryA]

No. More precisely I am referring to the phrase "the departure" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.......
It is not possible to rightfully interpret that peculiar phase as "falling away". The Greek is very precise and needs to be.

Are you saying that you do not trust the translators of the KJV (and possibly other translations) the slightest tiny bit?

Or, do you just "cherry-pick" the scripture in English and ignore the Greek?

The Greek is precise.

The word in the Greek is the word for 'apostasy' - and, means "[the state of being in] defection from truth"...

A slightly different form of the same word is translated 'forsake' in Acts 21:21.

Does your bible version say 'forsake' Moses - or does it say "make a departure from Moses"...???

 

[rayzor]

1. Just to let you know they have done animal studies. Evidently unconsciousness occurs in about 3 seconds. Somewhere between 2.5 and 3.2 seconds......
   cv5 1 Thessalonians 4:17 & 18
2. Those that died in him will rise first.
3. Than they that remain on the earth
4. Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout
5. The dead in Christ shall rise first
6. Then they that are alive and remain
7. Shall be caught up to the clouds

 

[cv5]

It's a departure from Christ and faith in him. All scholars agree on this. You are wrong.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word "falling away" is apostasia from where we get the words Apostate and Apostasy. Obviously it means a moral and spiritual "departure" not a physical departure.

G646
a?p?stas?´a
apostasia
Thayer Definition:
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647
Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2

The only other use of this word in the bible was people departing from the teachings of Moses which is an Apostasy from his teachings. Neither use has anything to do with simply going somewhere physically.

Totally disagree. There is absolutely nothing in the original Greek or the context of the passage that would indicate a "falling away from the faith". The passage is speaking about the DOTL, the timing of it, and intervention of God in the revealing of the man of sin. There is no talk of faith or faithfulness or spiritual fragility or anything like it.

If you want useful context, look at verses 6 and 7.....the Holy Spirit being "taken out of the way".

 

[cv5]

Are you saying that you do not trust the translators of the KJV (and possibly other translations) the slightest tiny bit?

Or, do you just "cherry-pick" the scripture in English and ignore the Greek?

The Greek is precise.

The word in the Greek is the word for 'apostasy' - and, means "[the state of being in] defection from truth"...

A slightly different form of the same word is translated 'forsake' in Acts 21:21.

Does your bible version say 'forsake' Moses - or does it say "make a departure from Moses"...???

Lol. You are absolutely correct I do not trust the translation of the KJV in this case.
The reasons why are very very well-known....if you care enough to look.

For your information there are six different versions of the Bible that predate the KJV that use the term "the departure".

Do yourself a big favor and track that down and find out what exactly happened.

 

[GaryA]

Lol. You are absolutely correct I do not trust the translation of the KJV in this case.
The reasons why are very very well-known....if you care enough to look.

In other words, you "cherry-pick"...

 

[GaryA]

Does your bible version say 'forsake' Moses - or does it say "make a departure from Moses"...???

???

 

[ewq1938]

Totally disagree. There is absolutely nothing in the original Greek or the context of the passage that would indicate a "falling away from the faith".

That's still wrong. The word itself has the meaning of departing from the faith or truth. Since that what word means, the passage is talking about Christians committing literal Apostasy ie: forsaking Christ for a false god. It's not speaking of the rapture but false teachers who do not understand scripture or Greek words and their definitions will tell people like you the wrong information.

 

[cv5]

In other words, you "cherry-pick"...

No. But I am very well-informed in the matter....

I think the number is six but it might be five I will let you know tomorrow.....good night.

"For your information there are six different versions of the Bible that predate the KJV that use the term "the departure"."

 

[cv5]

That's still wrong. The word itself has the meaning of departing from the faith or truth. Since that what word means, the passage is talking about Christians committing literal Apostasy ie: forsaking Christ for a false god. It's not speaking of the rapture but false teachers who do not understand scripture or Greek words and their definitions will tell people like you the wrong information.

Tutoring by TDW free of charge 24/7 here on this thread buddy. Do yourself a big big favor and pull yourself out of the weeds.

If your head hurts try harder and keep at it.