How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

i personaly dont like the way in which this scripture is translated,,, because one could think if the lady had not answered correctly Jesus may not have removed the demon,,, but i know thats not true..

The Lord had it all under control and He was leading her into faith, just as He does for all of us when we humble ourselves before Him.

 

[Absolutely]

Christ went and prepared a place for them just as He said and then He came back to them just as He said.

Here is the Place He prepared for them and all who believe:
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

This is the fulfillment of His Prayer in John 17

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am,

" i will not drink of the vine again, till i drink it anew WITH YOU in my fathers kingdom"

You do not even realize what is going on there.
There is business to be done IN HEAVEN with HIS BRIDE IN GLORIFIED BODIES.

The Holy Spirit reveals that drinking wine in heaven is a function of a GLORIFIED BODY.

Only a glorified body of believers will attend the wedding supper in heaven.

Hint;
NOW YOU SEE THE PURPOSE.

GOD IS A GOD OF PURPOSE

POSTRIB RAPTURE IS NO PURPOSE AT ALL.

THAT IS WHY YOU CAN NOT DEFEND IT.

 

[DavidTree]

" i will not drink of the vine again, till i drink it anew WITH YOU in my fathers kingdom"

You do not even realize what is going on there.
There is business to be done IN HEAVEN with HIS BRIDE IN GLORIFIED BODIES.

The Holy Spirit reveals that drinking wine in heaven is a function of a GLORIFIED BODY.

Only a glorified body of believers will attend the wedding supper in heaven.

Hint;
NOW YOU SEE THE PURPOSE.

GOD IS A GOD OF PURPOSE

POSTRIB RAPTURE IS NO PURPOSE AT ALL.

THAT IS WHY YOU CAN NOT DEFEND IT.

What does this mean and where did Paul get this crazy idea from???

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

lol - you might want to study the New Covenant and [,,,]

I think I can gather what point you're trying to make by saying such a thing ^ (esp. in the flow of the convo)...


...but consider again what I've put:


"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the timeS of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." - Acts 3:21 (that is, the OT prophets and their OT-recorded prophecies ... a number of which remain yet to be fulfilled)...






[consider too what He had told "the 12": "when [...]... ye also shall sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" Matt19:28 [see Mt25:31 for its related TIMING] / Lk22:30,16,18]

 

[Absolutely]

Yep, that's why i posted it - at His Coming - the Resurrection and the Restoration

The second coming on horses is post wrath.

You seem to think that is the rapture.

So why all the Wrath vs trib pivotal doctrine?

 

[Absolutely]

What does this mean and where did Paul get this crazy idea from???

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Jesus is talking
Not paul

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[consider too what He had told "the 12": "when [...]... ye also shall sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" Matt19:28 [see Mt25:31 for its related TIMING] / Lk22:30,16,18]

... that's ^ earthly located (i.e. in the earthly MK age).

 

[DavidTree]

The second coming on horses is post wrath.

You seem to think that is the rapture.

So why all the Wrath vs trib pivotal doctrine?

Are you referring to Rev 19 ?

 

[Absolutely]

Are you referring to Rev 19 ?

You have made a distiction between wrath and trib thinking it promotes your position.

You use it with Noah And Lot.

....and yet you are apparently believing the rapture is post wrath

 

[DavidTree]

You have made a distiction between wrath and trib thinking it promotes your position.

You use it with Noah And Lot.

....and yet you are apparently believing the rapture is post wrath

FIRST i am gonna SAY this to YOU - Good Morning Brother

 

[Laura798]

A pre millennial rapture was the clear teaching of the first century and the first few hundred years and it revived again after dark ages.

The timing of the rapture itself related to the tribulation might not have been written about but it is not so surprising that it would be explored more thoroughly after the reformation and insights gleaned since that entire subject material is clouded in mystery and no one knows for sure about all those finer details.

To suggest that the pre millennial view of the rapture is new is to not have read Church history documents. Once we concede that pre millennial rapture was understood by many early church writers then we are not so shocked that they did not have the timing of the tribulation well documented, nor did they teach much about it once other issues took center stage such as the deity of Christ.

They may have seen a pre trib rapture in the scriptures but just did not write about it or such writings did not survive. They did write about a pre millennial rapture and literal 1000 year reign before a final new earth and this should not be left out of the discussion as to what they understood the first 300 -500 years of the church.

We do not know what all the early bible teachers of the first several hundred years taught about everything. We only know what some, who's writings have survived taught. This is not exhaustive and people should remember this. I am sure that much more writings did not survive than did. MUCH MUCH MORE. Who knows what teachings about the book of Revelation were popular but were lost. Centuries of popular teachings could have risen and been lost and risen again and lost again. Generations died and their writings were lost and then the dark ages buried them in obscurity. The bible gets back in circulation and old truths get rediscovered.

It is no more incredible for Darby and others with him, (there were quite a few who contributed to the research) to have rediscovered a possible interpreation in scriptures that was once known by select groups of ancient Christians as it was for Luther, and other like him to rediscover other theology that was once known by ancient bible readers but had been buried in obscurity by the long reign of catholic ecclesiastics and their control over who was a scholar and who was not.

Saying that the pre tribulation interpretation was birthed out of a motivation to make money does not make any sense and is just another conspiracy theory that has no basis if fact. There is a market for prophetic books but the validity of an interpretation relies on hermeneutics not on book sales. The popularity of the pre tribulation interpretation can be traced to the superior hermeneutics of those who do a good job of presenting their case. As long as they continue to do so the interpretation will continue to have a high degree of acceptance among intellectually honest bible students.

Those who wish to present a different interpretation will need to present a superior hermeneutic and if they do that view will also have a high degree of acceptance. Thus the post trib pre millennial view is also a popular view. These two pre millennial views are the most accepted because they are the most sound hermeneutic. They are probably both imperfect and therefore will not be clarified until the Lord comes again and we no longer see in part.

To reveal any errors in the pretrib view one must exegete the verses involved not point out what year they became popular. Any post trib view that starts their hermeneutic presentation by discussing what century pre trib became popular is wasting his platform because that is not one of the rules of hermeneutics. You cannot interpret scripture text by applying a rule of when it became popular in the church. Luther rediscovered things in the scriptures that they wanted to kill him over. We don't discount possible interpretation of mysterious end time prophecy scriptures because they were not discussed much before in the past.

It is not surprising that the pentecostal movement swept the world in the early 20th century having not been discussed much by the reformers after the dark ages either. We humans take centuries to come out of our traditions of ignorance and we often read the scriptures with blinders of these traditions of bad interpretations.

We have a habit of burning at the stack those that discover truths in the scripture. What's next?

The person posting is talking about WHERE the pre-trib rapture idea came from, not trying to prove it false from a hermeneutical standpoint. For example, I could say putting a tree up in your house for Christmas or having a yule log has pagan roots and then give an example of how we adopted it from the Germans. I don't need to show any verses,

(though here is one showing it was a pagan practice: "A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.--Jeremiah 10)

I can simply give historical evidence of the practice. You won't find any Christians or Jews observing this practice as well as you wont find any verses which speak of a pre-trib rapture. You will however find verses that are evidence that we will go through the tribulation if we are still alive. The one verse that pre-tribbers try to use is "one will be taken the other left" but if it is read in its context it says "As in the days of Noah...one will be taken the other left."

The taken is a BAD thing, not a good thing. The verse, as many other verses is mirrored in Zechariah Chapter 14:2-3: Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken. Read the context. It is the battle of Armageddon--the city is captured, homes ransacked, women raped. How important it is to read scripture in its context! The bible is very clear. Christ is coming only a SECOND time, not three times. He is not coming in secret--the whole world will see his coming--he is coming with a trumpet blast and SHOUT. "For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"--1st Thessalonians 4:16

 

[DavidTree]

The person posting is talking about WHERE the pre-trib rapture idea came from, not trying to prove it false from a hermeneutical standpoint. For example, I could say putting a tree up in your house for Christmas or having a yule log has pagan roots and then give an example of how we adopted it from the Germans. I don't need to show any verses,

(though here is one showing it was a pagan practice: "A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.--Jeremiah 10)

I can simply give historical evidence of the practice. You won't find any Christians or Jews observing this practice as well as you wont find any verses which speak of a pre-trib rapture. You will however find verses that are evidence that we will go through the tribulation if we are still alive. The one verse that pre-tribbers try to use is "one will be taken the other left" but if it is read in its context it says "As in the days of Noah...one will be taken the other left."

The taken is a BAD thing, not a good thing. The verse, as many other verses is mirrored in Zechariah Chapter 14:2-3: Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken. Read the context. It is the battle of Armageddon--the city is captured, homes ransacked, women raped. How important it is to read scripture in its context! The bible is very clear. Christ is coming only a SECOND time, not three times. He is not coming in secret--the whole world will see his coming--he is coming with a trumpet blast and SHOUT. "For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"--1st Thessalonians 4:16

His First Coming has the Same effect in His Second Coming - One Event Two Outcomes

His First Coming - One Event Two with Outcomes = John 3:18

His Second Coming - One Event with Two Out Comes = 1 Thessalonians 1:10

HS7 shows us the Way

His Second Coming finalizes His First Coming

 

[DavidTree]

Corrections Made - Should Read as follows:

His First Coming has the Same effect in His Second Coming - Each Event has Two Outcomes

His First Coming - One Event with Two Outcomes = John 3:18

His Second Coming - One Event with Two Out Comes = 1 Thessalonians 1:10

HS7 shows us the Way

His Second Coming finalizes His First Coming

 

[DavidTree]

... that's ^ earthly located (i.e. in the earthly MK age).

24 elders my friend = 12 + 12 = 24

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

24 elders my friend = 12 + 12 = 24

Not exactly.

The text I supplied says this:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you [said to "the 12"], That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory [compare Matt25:31-34 for its TIMING (i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom)], ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." Matthew 19:28 [ / Lk22:30,16,18]





--that's earthly-located, and referring to: throughout the earthly MK age

 

[DavidTree]

Not exactly.

The text I supplied says this:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you [said to "the 12"], That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory [compare Matt25:31-34 for its TIMING (i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom)], ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." Matthew 19:28 [ / Lk22:30,16,18]



--that's earthly-located, and referring to: throughout the earthly MK age

For me to know

 

[cv5]

The person posting is talking about WHERE the pre-trib rapture idea came from, not trying to prove it false from a hermeneutical standpoint. For example, I could say putting a tree up in your house for Christmas or having a yule log has pagan roots and then give an example of how we adopted it from the Germans. I don't need to show any verses,

(though here is one showing it was a pagan practice: "A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.--Jeremiah 10)

I can simply give historical evidence of the practice. You won't find any Christians or Jews observing this practice as well as you wont find any verses which speak of a pre-trib rapture. You will however find verses that are evidence that we will go through the tribulation if we are still alive. The one verse that pre-tribbers try to use is but if it is read in its context it says "As in the days of Noah...one will be taken the other left."

The taken is a BAD thing, not a good thing. The verse, as many other verses is mirrored in Zechariah Chapter 14:2-3: Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken. Read the context. It is the battle of Armageddon--the city is captured, homes ransacked, women raped. How important it is to read scripture in its context! The bible is very clear. Christ is coming only a SECOND time, not three times. He is not coming in secret--the whole world will see his coming--he is coming with a trumpet blast and SHOUT. "For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"--1st Thessalonians 4:16

"one will be taken the other left"

Does not pertain to the Church. This incident occurs only after the 70th week of Daniel begins (post rapture). You might want to investigate what TDW has to say on the matter.

 

[Laura798]

Not exactly.

The text I supplied says this:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you [said to "the 12"], That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory [compare Matt25:31-34 for its TIMING (i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom)], ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." Matthew 19:28 [ / Lk22:30,16,18]





--that's earthly-located, and referring to: throughout the earthly MK age

Dear DW--the Millenial Kingdom is symbolic as Christ is currently ruling and reigning on the earth. Note that nowhere aside from Revelation is the Millenial Kingdom mentioned in scripture. The present heavens and earth will be destroyed at His coming and a new heaven and new earth will come into being when Christs hands over His rule and reign to the father.


Article Christ is ruling and reigning now--1000 years is symbolic--all of Revelation is SYMBOLIC and the angel usually defines, if not we look to the rest of scripture to understand the mystery. https://www.mikeblume.com/isrule.htm
"24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power."--1st Corinthians 15:24

 

[cv5]

Dear DW--the Millenial Kingdom is symbolic as Christ is currently ruling and reigning on the earth. Note that nowhere aside from Revelation is the Millenial Kingdom mentioned in scripture. The present heavens and earth will be destroyed at His coming and a new heaven and new earth will come into being when Christs hands over His rule and reign to the father.


Article Christ is ruling and reigning now--1000 years is symbolic--all of Revelation is SYMBOLIC and the angel usually defines, if not we look to the rest of scripture to understand the mystery. https://www.mikeblume.com/isrule.htm
"24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power."--1st Corinthians 15:24

Totally disagree. You are at odds with literally thousands of Scriptures and prophecies pertaining to Israel alone. Furthermore what you propose is obviates and makes null and void God's unassailable unilateral covenant promises.

Typical amillennialism......a heresy IMO. It demands that Israel gets kicked to the curb.....which is absolutely absurd. In fact the only reason Israel exists as a nation today is to fulfill end time prophecy and in order that God might FULFILL His covenants and promises to Abraham, David and Israel as a nation. Furthermore amillennialism insinuates replacement theology.....yet another heresy.

 

[DavidTree]

Laura798 and yourself both have part Truth and part error.

If you were to receive the Truth from Scripture that Laura798 speaks concerning the falsehood of a pre-trib rapture.....
AND
Laura798 were to receive the Truth from Scripture in Romans ch9-ch11 concerning the restoration of Israel of the earth.

Then, you both would have the Full TRUE Picture of what the LORD has said - AMEN