How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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This is who i am:
Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b
This is where i am:
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b
This is where i am:
But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
I think you need to find out what is going on here.....and it ain't amillenialism.
Mat 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Strong’s Definitions
δόξα dóxa, dox'-ah; from the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literal or figurative, objective or subjective):—dignity, glory(-ious), honour, praise, worship.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 168x
The KJV translates Strong's G1391 in the following manner: glory (145x), glorious (10x), honour (6x), praise (4x), dignity (2x), worship (1x).
Mat 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Strong’s Definitions
δόξα dóxa, dox'-ah; from the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literal or figurative, objective or subjective):—dignity, glory(-ious), honour, praise, worship.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 168x
The KJV translates Strong's G1391 in the following manner: glory (145x), glorious (10x), honour (6x), praise (4x), dignity (2x), worship (1x).
@Laura798 (re: your Post #1380) ,
The "amill-teachings" CONFLATE the two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3 -
--one "raise" referring to His being "raised" up to a position of prominence in/for His earthly ministry BEFORE His death / Cross (re: "His SERVANT Jesus" vv.13,26 and vv.22 and 24 [with v.24, see 1Sam8:7 as compared with Lk19:14 (see also v.11) and what was said by Joseph's brothers in Gen37:8 re: Joseph's FIRST dream, paralleling Christ's FIRST coming/advent]);
-the other "raise" referring to His being "raised" from the dead AFTER the Cross / AFTER His death [obviously
], v.15
...and by their [the "amill-teachings"] conflating of these two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3, have consequently missed the point that Peter is actually conveying in this text.
The "amill-teachings" CONFLATE the two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3 -
--one "raise" referring to His being "raised" up to a position of prominence in/for His earthly ministry BEFORE His death / Cross (re: "His SERVANT Jesus" vv.13,26 and vv.22 and 24 [with v.24, see 1Sam8:7 as compared with Lk19:14 (see also v.11) and what was said by Joseph's brothers in Gen37:8 re: Joseph's FIRST dream, paralleling Christ's FIRST coming/advent]);
-the other "raise" referring to His being "raised" from the dead AFTER the Cross / AFTER His death [obviously
], v.15...and by their [the "amill-teachings"] conflating of these two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3, have consequently missed the point that Peter is actually conveying in this text.
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@Laura798 (re: your Post #1380) ,
The "amill-teachings" CONFLATE the two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3 -
--one "raise" referring to His being "raised" up to a position of prominence in/for His earthly ministry BEFORE His death / Cross (re: "His SERVANT Jesus" vv.13,26 and vv.22 and 24 [with v.24, see 1Sam8:7 as compared with Lk19:14 (see also v.11) and what was said by Joseph's brothers in Gen37:8 re: Joseph's FIRST dream, paralleling Christ's FIRST coming/advent]);
-the other "raise" referring to His being "raised" from the dead AFTER the Cross / AFTER His death [obviously ], v.15
...and by their [the "amill-teachings"] conflating of these two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3, have consequently missed the point that Peter is actually conveying in this text.
The "amill-teachings" CONFLATE the two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3 -
--one "raise" referring to His being "raised" up to a position of prominence in/for His earthly ministry BEFORE His death / Cross (re: "His SERVANT Jesus" vv.13,26 and vv.22 and 24 [with v.24, see 1Sam8:7 as compared with Lk19:14 (see also v.11) and what was said by Joseph's brothers in Gen37:8 re: Joseph's FIRST dream, paralleling Christ's FIRST coming/advent]);
-the other "raise" referring to His being "raised" from the dead AFTER the Cross / AFTER His death [obviously
], v.15...and by their [the "amill-teachings"] conflating of these two distinct "raise" issues in Acts 3, have consequently missed the point that Peter is actually conveying in this text.
i think we won't be getting anywhere--i'm sorry, but to say I lack 'perspective'--makes no sense whatsoever--I have not shared my 'perspective as you called it but facts based on scripture. i certainly don't want to argue. i hope some will read this and instead of digging their heels in to support man made doctrine, will, as the Bereans did search the Scriptures to see if what I and others say is true.
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On the contrary, you presume that premillenialists do NOT believe that Jesus is reigning now, today. It is implied in your argument.
In fact we DO believe that He IS reigning. But today ONLY CHRISTIANS give Him glory and honor due him. He reigns in our hearts....beloved and recognized ONLY by those whom He has redeemed.
Jesus IS NOT recognized or glorified by the world....as of yet.
In fact we DO believe that He IS reigning. But today ONLY CHRISTIANS give Him glory and honor due him. He reigns in our hearts....beloved and recognized ONLY by those whom He has redeemed.
Jesus IS NOT recognized or glorified by the world....as of yet.
Yes.
And the thing Jesus had been referring to by saying "some standing here," was this (as I see it):
[quoting first from Gaebelein's commentary... and then from Wm Kelly's commentary below that, to sort of "fill out" the thought I'd like to convey...]
"The Lord had the transfiguration in mind when He spoke of some standing there and not tasting death. 2Peter 1:16 [see also vv.17 and 18] gives the meaning of the transfiguration as a type and earnest of His Coming into His Kingdom. On that mountain the three disciples saw the Kingdom of God come with power. The Servant [see Acts 3:13,26 "His SERVANT Jesus" (<--His earthly ministry BEFORE His death)] appears in Glory. The Saints are represented by Moses and Elias, those who have died and those changed in the twinkling of an eye. The three disciples represented the Saints on earth, when He comes into His Kingdom; the Shekinah cloud was there. And Peter blundered again when he lowered the dignity of the Lord by putting Him alongside of the two Old Testament Servants of God. The Father’s voice is heard once more, vindicating the honor of His Son. What an encouragement the transfiguration must have been for the Servant-Son."
--Gaebelein (commentary found at BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/mark/9.htm )
[bold mine, and bracketed inserts mine]
"And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answering, says to Jesus, Rabbi89, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; for Thee one, and for Moses one, and for Elias one. For he knew not what to say; for they were filled with fear. And there came a cloud overshadowing them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is My beloved Son90: hear Him.* And suddenly, when they had looked around, they saw no one any longer, save Jesus only with themselves." Having already treated of the scene in Matthew,† I will not dwell on the astonishing circumstance further than to remark that the Lord discloses in this type of God's kingdom what popular theologians so dislike - earthly things mingled, though in no wise confounded, with heavenly things (John 3). There are the glorified, in the persons of Moses and Elias; there are the men in their still unchanged natural bodies, Peter, James, and John; there is the central figure of the Lord, the Head of all things above and below. So it will be when the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ is not any more a testimony of word from those who were eyewitnesses of His majesty, but made good and displayed in the day of the Lord.
[...]
"It is mere irreverence to deride what will be by-and-by, or what was then beheld anticipatively, as "a mongrel state of things," "an abhorred mixture of things totally inconsistent with each other." If transient glimpses of glory, if passing visits of glorious beings have been vouchsafed from the beginning down to our Saviour's days, is it that man can read in these no more than a tale that is told? Is there to them no confirmation from the holy mount of the prophetic word which declares that Jehovah's feet shall stand on Mount Olivet, not to dissolve all things as yet, but to be King over all the earth in that day when He shall come, and all His saints with Him? (cf. Zech. 14). "And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith Jehovah I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; and the earth shall hear the corn, and the new wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jizreel. And I will sow her unto me in the land; and I will have mercy upon Lo-ruhamah; and I will say to Lo-Ammi, Thou art my people; and they shall say, My God" (Hosea 2). "Having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, for administration of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth; in Him" (Ephesians 1:9). It is in vain to pervert this to the eternal state; it is as distinct from that final condition as from the present ways of God. For as the gathering of the Church is essentially eclectic, and in no sense a gathering of all things in heaven and earth into one, so eternity is after all dispensation (οἰκονομία), administration, or stewardship, is over. The millennial reign, the kingdom of Christ, is the sole answer to this, even as to the other Scriptures. "Let Thy kingdom come, let Thy will be done, as in heaven, so upon the earth" (Matthew 6:10)."
--William Kelly (commentary found at BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kelly/mark/9.htm )
[end quoting]
[TDW: Eph1:10 (referenced in Kelly's commentary ^ , toward the end) is not speaking of "this present age" as many suppose, nor of "eternity" as others suppose it to mean]
And the thing Jesus had been referring to by saying "some standing here," was this (as I see it):
[quoting first from Gaebelein's commentary... and then from Wm Kelly's commentary below that, to sort of "fill out" the thought I'd like to convey...]
"The Lord had the transfiguration in mind when He spoke of some standing there and not tasting death. 2Peter 1:16 [see also vv.17 and 18] gives the meaning of the transfiguration as a type and earnest of His Coming into His Kingdom. On that mountain the three disciples saw the Kingdom of God come with power. The Servant [see Acts 3:13,26 "His SERVANT Jesus" (<--His earthly ministry BEFORE His death)] appears in Glory. The Saints are represented by Moses and Elias, those who have died and those changed in the twinkling of an eye. The three disciples represented the Saints on earth, when He comes into His Kingdom; the Shekinah cloud was there. And Peter blundered again when he lowered the dignity of the Lord by putting Him alongside of the two Old Testament Servants of God. The Father’s voice is heard once more, vindicating the honor of His Son. What an encouragement the transfiguration must have been for the Servant-Son."
--Gaebelein (commentary found at BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/mark/9.htm )
[bold mine, and bracketed inserts mine]
"And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answering, says to Jesus, Rabbi89, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; for Thee one, and for Moses one, and for Elias one. For he knew not what to say; for they were filled with fear. And there came a cloud overshadowing them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is My beloved Son90: hear Him.* And suddenly, when they had looked around, they saw no one any longer, save Jesus only with themselves." Having already treated of the scene in Matthew,† I will not dwell on the astonishing circumstance further than to remark that the Lord discloses in this type of God's kingdom what popular theologians so dislike - earthly things mingled, though in no wise confounded, with heavenly things (John 3). There are the glorified, in the persons of Moses and Elias; there are the men in their still unchanged natural bodies, Peter, James, and John; there is the central figure of the Lord, the Head of all things above and below. So it will be when the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ is not any more a testimony of word from those who were eyewitnesses of His majesty, but made good and displayed in the day of the Lord.
[...]
"It is mere irreverence to deride what will be by-and-by, or what was then beheld anticipatively, as "a mongrel state of things," "an abhorred mixture of things totally inconsistent with each other." If transient glimpses of glory, if passing visits of glorious beings have been vouchsafed from the beginning down to our Saviour's days, is it that man can read in these no more than a tale that is told? Is there to them no confirmation from the holy mount of the prophetic word which declares that Jehovah's feet shall stand on Mount Olivet, not to dissolve all things as yet, but to be King over all the earth in that day when He shall come, and all His saints with Him? (cf. Zech. 14). "And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith Jehovah I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; and the earth shall hear the corn, and the new wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jizreel. And I will sow her unto me in the land; and I will have mercy upon Lo-ruhamah; and I will say to Lo-Ammi, Thou art my people; and they shall say, My God" (Hosea 2). "Having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, for administration of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth; in Him" (Ephesians 1:9). It is in vain to pervert this to the eternal state; it is as distinct from that final condition as from the present ways of God. For as the gathering of the Church is essentially eclectic, and in no sense a gathering of all things in heaven and earth into one, so eternity is after all dispensation (οἰκονομία), administration, or stewardship, is over. The millennial reign, the kingdom of Christ, is the sole answer to this, even as to the other Scriptures. "Let Thy kingdom come, let Thy will be done, as in heaven, so upon the earth" (Matthew 6:10)."
--William Kelly (commentary found at BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kelly/mark/9.htm )
[end quoting]
[TDW: Eph1:10 (referenced in Kelly's commentary ^ , toward the end) is not speaking of "this present age" as many suppose, nor of "eternity" as others suppose it to mean]
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No, vv.13,26 "raise" are speaking of the same "raise" in v.22 "raise up UNTO YOU of your brethren, like unto me ["me"=Moses; i.e. a PROPHET (Deut34:10)]; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say UNTO YOU"
(recall, Peter is ADDRESSING "ye men of Israel," per v.12,
and where v.15 says OF THEM "[whom] YE delivered up, and denied him... and killed..."
and where v.19 says OF THEM "Repent YE, and be converted..."
and where v.26 says OF THEM "Unto YOU FIRST God, having raised up His SERVANT Jesus [that is, "raised up" to a position of prominence AS a "PROPHET"... like unto Moses... in Jesus' earthly ministry BEFORE His death!], SENT him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.")
[recall what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 (key to the above ^ ), "But he answered and said, I am not SENT but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."]
____________
The word "King" (re: Jesus) is only used TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "FUTURE" (corresponding also with Rev19:15b's "FUTURE-tense" even from that perspective [point-in-time] in the chronology)
(recall, Peter is ADDRESSING "ye men of Israel," per v.12,
and where v.15 says OF THEM "[whom] YE delivered up, and denied him... and killed..."
and where v.19 says OF THEM "Repent YE, and be converted..."
and where v.26 says OF THEM "Unto YOU FIRST God, having raised up His SERVANT Jesus [that is, "raised up" to a position of prominence AS a "PROPHET"... like unto Moses... in Jesus' earthly ministry BEFORE His death!], SENT him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.")
[recall what Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 (key to the above ^ ), "But he answered and said, I am not SENT but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."]
____________
The word "King" (re: Jesus) is only used TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "FUTURE" (corresponding also with Rev19:15b's "FUTURE-tense" even from that perspective [point-in-time] in the chronology)
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Yes, of course, the Word became flesh according to the lineage of Judah which is from Mary who was of the lineage of David.
vs 13 raised from the dead
vs 22 raised from among them - He came to His own
vs 26 raised the Servant - both - from the seed of Abraham and from the dead
So Christ died at their hands(murdered) and has Risen from death, He is the Prophet foretold by Moses, raised up above them,
He is the Servant raised UP - both then and now - to the Jew First and also to the Gentile
and this continues uninterrupted into chapter 4
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being examined today about a kind service to a man who was lame, to determine how he was healed, 10then let this be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11This Jesus is
‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’a
12Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant,c our father David:
‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One